Bob's Board: The Two Tier Country We Live In.... - Bob's Board

I know its from the Daily Fail but thought there might be more comment on here about the scandal of the two tier world we live in and how one sector are getting richer at the expense of the rest...

https://www.thisismo...r-pensions.html

I particularly liked this paragraph....

There is a myth that public sector workers get more generous pensions in return for a lower salary. But that has not been the case for more than 15 years.

So many public sector workers are enjoying a double boost — higher salaries when they are working and better pensions when they retire.

Rebecca O'Connor, from the pensions firm PensionBee, describes the divide as 'pensions apartheid'. She says: 'I don't think a lot of the people calling for higher public sector pay know how generous the pensions they are sitting on really are.'

She adds: 'A huge pension inequality has been established. Not only are private sector workers far behind when it comes to pensions, but they are also paying more in taxes to help fund some of these generous public sector pensions that promise the world.'

Mike Ambery, of pensions consultancy Hymans Robertson, agrees. He believes it is unfair that taxpayers are having to foot the bill for expensive public sector pensions.

He says: 'It doesn't seem equitable at a time when inflation is high and people are finding it more difficult to cope.'

Where are all the socialists railing against this clear unfair treatment and wanting fairer treatment....

(doesnt affect me as I'll be hitting the now defunct cap before I retire if I go to state pension age, but I did think more youngsters would be up in arms about it!)

isleaiw1, on 31 May 2023 - 10:28 AM, said:

Make private sector pensions better then... it's not a race to the bottom

turrhall, on 31 May 2023 - 11:25 AM, said:

well they are paid for by private companies, maybe we could reduce the tax burden on them by reducing Employers NIC or Corporation Tax to pay for it? Then where would the money come from to pay for the stuff the country needs..?

Actually Defined benefit schemes became unaffordable for the private sector as the additional life span post retirement, along with the assumptions on inflation, interest rates and returns, meant that they would be paying in beyond 35% of a workers wages to fund the pension - being forced to do that would mean fewer workers and fewer jobs, as they moved work outside the UK or scaled back the number of staff and automated more...

Not so easy in reality when you need to do more than throw out cheap statements. Maybe we could nationalise everything so the govt can pay for all our pensions, they can afford it

You could make an argument for this if you are looking at the older schemes but the new 2015 scheme is nothing special and the contributions are significant.

Personally I think this is the reason we are seeing the NHS dismantled and privatised by stealth. It's all about avoiding these types of demand. Its much easier to pay someone else a premium and let them worry about it.

isleaiw1, on 31 May 2023 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right, let's just kick it down the road sure it'll all be fine

I have gone from final salary to career average,it's cost me a fortune and ruined retirement plans,the pension i have payed handsomely into,sacrificing nice cars and other luxuries now means I have to look for alternative employment when I retire,this newspaper talks absolute crap,the Tories wrecked it

This post has been edited by Bonnyman: 31 May 2023 - 01:07 PM

Town_Fan, on 31 May 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

I dont think the NHS one does as well as local govt and civil servants, but better than teachers and a lot better than private sector...

Bonnyman, on 31 May 2023 - 01:07 PM, said:

Given my DB scheme was closed to new accrual in 2003 and I went to a DC scheme which is all about returns and nothing about salary, and the company contribution effectively halved, I know the feeling well..

But was it the govt that wrecked it or the world we live in? People used to start work at 16 / 15 and retire at 65, then live to 75 if they were lucky. Now start at 21 and retire at 65 and live to 85. That's a whole lot of extra non earning years that someone is having to pay for...

turrhall, on 31 May 2023 - 01:04 PM, said:

No lets solve it and the strikes... you want more cash, have a worse pension (like the rest of the UK), you want the best pension, stop whingeing about your pay and look at total reward each year....

Maybe let you change every 5 years or when your life has a defining moment (marriage, children, divorce, home ownership, etc)

I’d be interested to know if anyone on here is striking and if they are, are they genuinely in support of it?

The reason I ask is that I have customers working for Royal Mail, East Midlands Rail and the NHS and when I’ve spoken with them about it, not one of them has actually been striking for themselves.

It’s bizarre really but all three have basically said they were going on strike in solidarity for someone else in their organisation.

Not one of them actually had a personal support for the strikes.

Now it could be complete coincidence that all three fell into an area of their respective organisation that were happy with their pay and conditions but is it also feasible that those pulling the strings of the current strikes are actually the ones with something to gain?

Genuine question as, like I say, I’ve yet to speak with anyone who is in a position where they feel this action is needed.

Valley Blues, on 31 May 2023 - 02:50 PM, said:

It sure seems alot of rail workers are not in support of the strikes and the union members are not even putting pay offers to there members. A few weeks ago i spoke with a guy who was operating the food and drink trolley on the train, probably one of the lowest paid on the railway and he said on strike days he does work cleaning trains in tbe depot. What chance do the train companies and government have of sorting out these strikes when you have pig headed arthur scargill type union men with there own petty agendas whos main aim seem to be bringing down the government

isleaiw1, on 31 May 2023 - 11:40 AM, said:

Alternatively you could go and get a life and stop whinging about the public sector pensions you tiresome tiresome, tiresome, tiresome....

Middle East, on 31 May 2023 - 08:44 PM, said:

Hey just posting a link to an interesting topic that I thought might be of interest to those who whinge about others having something they dont, but I guess some of you are just hypocrites when it comes to fairness...

I find strikes by people on good money tiresome too, by the way. But in this world where only one view is tolerated that probably isnt popular too.

(you arent as much fun as Chris to spar with you as you go straight to insults, you do know what they say about insults in an argument dont you...)

I'll tell you what's "tiresome", Ian.

Folk piously accusing others of double standard intransigence when serial offenders themselves.

This is yet another occasion when you flaunt your obsession with public sector pensions. 'Whinging about folk getting summat you're not', to quote your own words back at you. Completely ignoring what public sector employees are telling you about their situations, too.

Then of course the usual suspects piggy back their usual prejudices. The same mindless, fingers-in-ears-and-eyes-squeezed-shut ignorance so often mantrad no matter how reasonable or compelling the arguments against it.

Though which goes strangely unmentioned by people posting petty little snipes against the supposed stubbornness of others, of course.

Look, public sector workers accepted year after year of wage stagnation thanks to the austerity imposed by the Lib's you champion.

Whilst the bankers and hedgefund managers and City speculators responsible for the worldwide crash recieved tax cuts on their ever spiralling rewards.

We then applauded them for manning the front line against Covid with many thousands paying with their lives for doing so.

Again whilst friends and families of the tories had their snouts in a swilling trough of public money.

But when they ask for fair pay? For the higher wages promised by Brexiters? For the 'levelling up' so many voted for?

They're suddenly just greedy shirkers already getting more than they deserve and having their strings pulled by union 'barons'.

Vilification underpinned by exactly the kinda article in exactly the rag you chose to reference.

So if you were simply seeking a response you've got it. Congratulations, well done. However these accusations of blinkered bias are as hypocritical as they're pompous...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 01 June 2023 - 08:01 AM

Folk have just about done with the railways, they’ve made alternative arrangements

So the strikes?

Hardly anyone cares about them

Ian's obsessed with pensions.

Mind you if anyone has a personal pension pot (not final salary or current employer scheme) in excess of £250k and wants a free review, dm me. 😂

This post has been edited by Westbars Spireite: 01 June 2023 - 01:19 PM

I love my pension. A 10% rise this year. Just what the Dr ordered.

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 01 June 2023 - 07:58 AM, said:

What I am intrigued with is socialists who demand fairness turning a blind eye to the taxpayer funding Inequality

You might call it tiresome, but I call it a valid challenge.

I haven't heard a good argument yet other than sidestepping...

Westbars Spireite, on 01 June 2023 - 01:18 PM, said:

Well over but I am OK thanks!

Quaker, on 01 June 2023 - 06:02 PM, said:

5% cap on most private sector schemes unless you are in the private sector, so you are in the lucky camp.

Mind 5% of a lot is a lot

Joe Quigley is dynamite, on 01 June 2023 - 10:12 AM, said:

If people are sick of the trains it's because they are expensive and ****, due to them being badly run. I was under the impression that capitalism and the free market was supposed to make things more efficient but alas the operator's soaring profits are presumably better spent servicing shareholders than the hardware, the staff and or passenger experience.

turrhall, on 01 June 2023 - 06:37 PM, said:

What soaring profits, passenger numbers still have not recovered from pre covid levels