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 Burgerman, on 02 May 2025 - 11:40 AM, said:

Thanks for the reasoned reply.

And thanks also for acknowledging my point; Reform are essentially a one policy party - arguably still a one man one too - using legitimate immigration concerns as a vehicle to pursue an even more sinister agenda.

Free-for-all free marketry.

I don't think you should under-estimate them, either. We're seeing the end of the Conservative Party before our very eyes. A descent into oblivion initiated, with delicious irony, by Boris Johnson.

Or at least the corruption and chaos which became normalised during his ridiculously brief tenure.

Most of their financial backers fund Reform. Many of their members have also migrated (pun) to Reform. Whilst it's obvious millions of their voters cross the Reform box first.

Who can now claim with credibility to be the official opposition.

Nor can we deny they're attracting huge numbers of Labour voters. Many motivated, as you quite accurately recognise, by immigration. A decision for which, like you, I don't blame them.

However as someone like myself and millions of others who doesn't agree with Reform - in fact genuinely despises the charlatan leading them, his Trumpian agenda and the characters he has a history of attracting - the question is how to oppose them.

First, mainstream politicians have to be better. Much better. In short do what they said on the electoral tin. Then most of all abide by three 'Fight Club' style rules.

Rule one - don't dump on those who voted for you.

Rule two - don't dump on those who voted for you.

Rule three - DON'T EFFIN' DUMP ON THOSE WHO VOTED FOR YOU!

Rules which this current government - my party's government - have clearly forgotten.

Second, do what I've attempted to do on here; expose Reform's absence of bread and butter policies. Or even worse, ones which will render the UK public they claim to hold dear infinitely worse off.

Private health insurance.

Billions of public spending cuts allied to billions of tax cuts which will make the Kwar-crash look like a minor fiscal hiccup.

Defaulting on interest payments to the BoE which will create untold mistrust on the markets.

Ripping up countless regulations protecting workers, consumers and the environment.

Zero net migration which will deprive public services and business of millions of essential employees.

If at that point you still want to blame Labour or Tories or anyone else for where you find yourself, then fair enough. I might even agree to a certain extent. But please Mark, at least be balanced in who you call out and when...

 Burgerman, on 02 May 2025 - 08:04 AM, said:

You'll note I didn't use any of those slurs though, Mark.

I simply asked someone zealously boasting support and membership of a party vying to be the official opposition what policies they had beyond the 'stop the boats' slogans he chose to quote when it's NHS policy was interrogated.

As witnessed the repeated responses were as evasive as they were predictable.

So you've a choice to make; how long do you value seeing the traditional parties suffer - including my own which quite rightly received a political pasting despite pathetic attempts to pretend otherwise - over the rise of one with which you largely disagree? How long do you celebrate their embarrassment instead of challenging what Reform will do to you and yours'?

And I'll finish with an anecdote you can choose to believe or not.

Last week my work led to an encounter with an old lady. An old lady who lives across from where a new estate is being built. An old lady who'd been led to believe some of the high end housing going up would be handed to migrants.

An old lady who was genuinely scared as a result.

But it was gibberish. Nonsense. A cynical lie peddled by someone, somewhere, to scare that old lady.

I intend to call out those lies whenever they're peddled - what do you intend to do....?

 Wooden Spoon, on 30 April 2025 - 08:56 PM, said:

This is better suited to the Labour topic, but as you've mentioned Labour members here I'll reply here.

The people I encounter at local meetings aren't in any way extreme. In fact I can honestly say I've never heard women with penises discussed. Or criminals' colour. Or Megs and Hazza.

Or any of the other issues the Right accuse us of being, yet they themselves are so obsessed by.

No. These are just ordinary working class people doing their damnedest to help other ordinary working class people in their ordinary working class community.

Running 'Gussies kitchen' our neighbourhood food bank, for example. Or keeping amenities open in the face of devastating cuts. Or addressing anti-social behaviour.

Committed by the area's long term scrotes and not immigrants staying in a nearby hostel, by the way.

I do detect a growing disconnect with the Parliamentary party, though. These members/we didn't join Labour to trash manifesto pledges. We didn't join Labour to impose austerity upon the vulnerable. We didn't join Labour to become another version of the twenty ten coalition.

Which is a exactly what this government's become.

Starmer is no socialist. Anyone accusing him or his cabinet of being reds-under-beds is either ignorant, or believes others are ignorant enough to parrot such a mindless sneer. He has no ideology, that's very clear. Other than leading a mainstream party with middle of the road policies bearing little relationship to traditional Labour values.

Perhaps he'll keep enough of the politically unaligned whose support's necessary for power happy to succeed, I dunno.

However as things stand he's merely alienating many that gave him that power in the first place...

 Mr Mercury, on 01 May 2025 - 05:10 PM, said:

It was a simple request, Mark.

Detail Reform policies on the Reform thread.

Yet here we are after two replies to the same post, several profanity peppered paragraphs (do you remember accusing me of lowering the tone when using the dictionary definition of 'bastard' which you didn't understand?), a number of obviously diversionary taunts, the by now inevitable mention of the 'two tier' trope - which of course perfectly describes your attitude towards lies and treachery, more desperate attempts to hide behind what you claim millions think...

..and not a single sentence telling us what your party would do with the NHS. Or those WASPI's you were previously so excited about. Or pensions. Or public spending, taxation, the care sector, social infrastructure or any other bread and butter issues effecting the working class people so often mentioned.

But hey, don't worry mate, you're not on your own.

There're several other Reform supporters on here who clearly find it impossible to comment without mentioning migrants, too...

 Mr Mercury, on 01 May 2025 - 04:30 PM, said:

So that's another 'No', then.

You can't provide an iota of credible evidence to support your claim.

And you've yet again resorted to evasion and whataboutery rather than tell us why 'Britain needs Reform'.

Look, it really isn't difficult - as a bloke who's boasted Reform membership and venerated it's leader please offer a few sentences detailing it's policies.

Just without mentioning the word 'migrant'.

I see you've repeated the "treacherous" term, too.

Despite your own leader's praise for Putin, appearances on his propaganda platform - for which he presumably recieved Kremlin coin - and secret meetings with the Russian Ambassador.

Which "many millions" will deem treacherous.

Yet perfectly okay with you.

Blimey - next you'll be hysterically calling folk 'liars' whilst insisting the Boris Johnson who's name is synonymous with corruption was some sort of victim!

Oh, wait...