[DerbySpireite59]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 07:29 AM, said:

We must be one of the only set of fans in the country where we have a minority seemingly looking for ways to get more away fans in our ground!

Generally we'll have 5-7 games a season where opponents would bring a further 600, say. That's 70-94k a season, after additional costs.

ATM we turn it down because Phil and Ash are underwriting the Club, hoping one day that we regularly average 8k full paying fans and being a stable L1 club.

Those days may never come, and we need to stand on our own 2 feet sooner than later.
Imho.

If that means maxing out away fans, then so be it. I reckon there's lots of clubs between L1 and the National League regional who have season ticket holders who buy knowing they are likely to be relocated a handful of times a season.


I accept that i may well be wrong though.

[JonB]

azul, on 14 May 2025 - 07:46 AM, said:

Don't forget to add 'at the expense and/or inconvenience of home fans'. That is the really dim bit.

Yeh its really strange that its happening...we are on an up in terms of crowds the last couple of years with season ticket sales the best we've seen some of which could be people that got their first taste via the trust scheme and we have folk wanting to make that harder to do and shove our own fans around to give an away team more support. The club have even said how the team have said how much they like having home fans at both ends. I see no sense in changing whats happening at the moment.

[JonB]

DerbySpireite59, on 14 May 2025 - 07:57 AM, said:

Generally we'll have 5-7 games a season where opponents would bring a further 600, say. That's 70-94k a season, after additional costs.

ATM we turn it down because Phil and Ash are underwriting the Club, hoping one day that we regularly average 8k full paying fans and being a stable L1 club.

Those days may never come, and we need to stand on our own 2 feet sooner than later.
Imho.

If that means maxing out away fans, then so be it. I reckon there's lots of clubs between L1 and the National League regional who have season ticket holders who buy knowing they are likely to be relocated a handful of times a season.


I accept that i may well be wrong though.

As it stands currently i would suspect that if we are stable in League 1 then the crowds wont be far off 8k anyway, we're averaging 8505 this season even with the spell we had over xmas where we struggled for wins for various reasons.

[DerbySpireite59]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 08:00 AM, said:

As it stands currently i would suspect that if we are stable in League 1 then the crowds wont be far off 8k anyway, we're averaging 8505 this season even with the spell we had over xmas where we struggled for wins for various reasons.

I 100% agree, but as you wrote, the key word is "if".

[DerbySpireite59]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 07:58 AM, said:

Yeh its really strange that its happening...we are on an up in terms of crowds the last couple of years with season ticket sales the best we've seen some of which could be people that got their first taste via the trust scheme and we have folk wanting to make that harder to do and shove our own fans around to give an away team more support. The club have even said how the team have said how much they like having home fans at both ends. I see no sense in changing whats happening at the moment.

Dim view queried expansion in to the middle sections of the East Stand, not the North End.

I followed this up with exharborough spirite asking him/her:

"Out of interest, if the Club did make the middle section subject to such occassional relocations for 26-27 season, would you

1. still buy a season ticket?
2. if so, would you move seat?

I don't think we need to go down that route by the way. ATM. However, it might make commercial sense one day."

I think it'd be remiss not to ask such questions, of those who would be effected.
I'm interested to read the reply, rather than those of us who don't sit in there.

[JonB]

DerbySpireite59, on 14 May 2025 - 08:03 AM, said:

I 100% agree, but as you wrote, the key word is "if".

But at the moment we are, we will next season you would think based on season ticket sales etc. We are rightly looking to build on the buzz that is around the club that is attracting people along and going back on it by turfing people out of their seats every so often to give away teams an advantage to make a few quid out of them.

I suspect there are a number of things we could get right in terms of merchandising, food and drink etc that we currently arent doing very well that could cover the same sort of money letting a few more away fans in the ground will do.

[JonB]

DerbySpireite59, on 14 May 2025 - 08:10 AM, said:

Dim view queried expansion in to the middle sections of the East Stand, not the North End.

I followed this up with exharborough spirite asking him/her:

"Out of interest, if the Club did make the middle section subject to such occassional relocations for 26-27 season, would you

1. still buy a season ticket?
2. if so, would you move seat?

I don't think we need to go down that route by the way. ATM. However, it might make commercial sense one day."

I think it'd be remiss not to ask such questions, of those who would be effected.
I'm interested to read the reply, rather than those of us who don't sit in there.

I responded to the bit about more away fans in the East Stand saying its very likely a none starter based on the logistics of the East Stand. The concourse area is split by the non moveable big steel door and there will be rules about how many people can go in that concourse area which i suspect limits the amount of away fans that can be housed. Just moving the segregation netting down to allocate a few more seats is one thing but then you have the logistics and safety side of the concourses, exits etc while keeping fans separated.

With the season ticket sales to date it sounds like we have too many season ticket holders in different places for moving them around to be an option anyway.

[azul]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 07:58 AM, said:

Yeh its really strange that its happening...we are on an up in terms of crowds the last couple of years with season ticket sales the best we've seen some of which could be people that got their first taste via the trust scheme and we have folk wanting to make that harder to do and shove our own fans around to give an away team more support. The club have even said how the team have said how much they like having home fans at both ends. I see no sense in changing whats happening at the moment.

I was sceptical at first about encouraging the use of the North Stand for ST holders as I thought it would make for lack of flexibility but as long as our home support for the bigger games Is around the 8000 mark then it isn't doing any harm and I can see the policy might be growing support. The downside is obviously if our attendances decrease and the revenue from the large away form becomes more significant. The other downside are clubs that will limit our support in a purely tit for tat basis and we can see that happening already.

[DerbySpireite59]

azul, on 14 May 2025 - 08:22 AM, said:

I was sceptical at first about encouraging the use of the North Stand for ST holders as I thought it would make for lack of flexibility but as long as our home support for the bigger games Is around the 8000 mark then it isn't doing any harm and I can see the policy might be growing support. The downside is obviously if our attendances decrease and the revenue from the large away form becomes more significant. The other downside are clubs that will limit our support in a purely tit for tat basis and we can see that happening already.

I wouldn't "worry" about that. e.g Walsall is only going tit for tat because its a play-off game. The regulations season we got plenty more, and still would. Imho

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 08:15 AM, said:

But at the moment we are, we will next season you would think based on season ticket sales etc. We are rightly looking to build on the buzz that is around the club that is attracting people along and going back on it by turfing people out of their seats every so often to give away teams an advantage to make a few quid out of them.

I suspect there are a number of things we could get right in terms of merchandising, food and drink etc that we currently arent doing very well that could cover the same sort of money letting a few more away fans in the ground will do.

Again, I 100% agree with you. I'm just saying that this boom period might not last long. I'm 62 and never known anything like it. It feels too good to be true at times.

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 08:20 AM, said:

I responded to the bit about more away fans in the East Stand saying its very likely a none starter based on the logistics of the East Stand. The concourse area is split by the non moveable big steel door and there will be rules about how many people can go in that concourse area which i suspect limits the amount of away fans that can be housed. Just moving the segregation netting down to allocate a few more seats is one thing but then you have the logistics and safety side of the concourses, exits etc while keeping fans separated.

With the season ticket sales to date it sounds like we have too many season ticket holders in different places for moving them around to be an option anyway.

Points well made. 👍

[JonB]

azul, on 14 May 2025 - 08:22 AM, said:

I was sceptical at first about encouraging the use of the North Stand for ST holders as I thought it would make for lack of flexibility but as long as our home support for the bigger games Is around the 8000 mark then it isn't doing any harm and I can see the policy might be growing support. The downside is obviously if our attendances decrease and the revenue from the large away form becomes more significant. The other downside are clubs that will limit our support in a purely tit for tat basis and we can see that happening already.

I suspect this is less likely to happen in general league games to be honest, think this play off game at Walsall is a bit of a one off and numerous teams seem to have been at it in recent years as the downside of doing it in terms of revenue is watered down by the way things are split. Walsall have had to go out of their way to make the changes to do it which i suspect the majority of clubs for general league games wont do. Pretty sure someone said on here that clubs make other clubs aware at the start of the season what the arrangements are for away allocations and how tickets are sold for games so clubs are well aware early.

[Looker-on]

Walsall (this season,) Notts, Port Vale, Donny, Bradford, Grimsby have all brought their allocation, or close to it, to our place this season. At least three and possibly four of those won't be here next season, and will be replaced by Crawley (114,) Bristol Rovers (934,) Cambridge (220) and Shrewsbury.(666) Figures in brackets are the highest that they've ever brought here. So Bristol Rovers might bring more than 1k, if they do well, as might York or Oldham, if they come up and do well, or if we get them early doors. I wouldn't be giving Oldham more than 1k after their last performance here.

So I think it'll be a bit less of an issue next season. Which I suppose means that we can more easily carry on as we are, or we can more easily shift folk about, given that it'd happen less.

Could we add part of N5 to the away allocation in the East Stand, and make anyone in it use the facilities under Little East?

I think that when season tickets were sold for the North it was done on the understanding that folk might not be able to buy their usual seat for big cup games, but I don't think that same principle of "you buy entry, but not a guaranteed seat" has ever been applied to anywhere else in the ground, certainly not for league games. Folk in the East would be entitled to be disappointed if the club started messing them about just to accommodate another thousand cultural ambassadors from Oldham.

[JonB]

DerbySpireite59, on 14 May 2025 - 08:32 AM, said:

Again, I 100% agree with you. I'm just saying that this boom period might not last long. I'm 62 and never known anything like it. It feels too good to be true at times.

Yep i'm not quite as old as you but remember the days of 5000 at Saltergate seen as a big crowd and now we see anything under 7000 as not a great turn out. Its great to see but i think what has also changed with the Kirks in charge is the mindset and you trust them to make the right decisions at the right times. If it gets to the point where our fans in the North stand isnt working then we go back to how things started but it would be foolish to not try and build on whats happening currently and have it so as many of our own fans can be in as possible.

[DerbySpireite59]

Looker-on, on 14 May 2025 - 08:35 AM, said:

Walsall (this season,) Notts, Port Vale, Donny, Bradford, Grimsby have all brought their allocation, or close to it, to our place this season. At least three and possibly four of those won't be here next season, and will be replaced by Crawley (114,) Bristol Rovers (934,) Cambridge (220) and Shrewsbury.(666) Figures in brackets are the highest that they've ever brought here. So Bristol Rovers might bring more than 1k, if they do well, as might York or Oldham, if they come up and do well, or if we get them early doors. I wouldn't be giving Oldham more than 1k after their last performance here.

So I think it'll be a bit less of an issue next season. Which I suppose means that we can more easily carry on as we are, or we can more easily shift folk about, given that it'd happen less.

Could we add part of N5 to the away allocation in the East Stand, and make anyone in it use the facilities under Little East?

I think that when season tickets were sold for the North it was done on the understanding that folk might not be able to buy their usual seat for big cup games, but I don't think that same principle of "you buy entry, but not a guaranteed seat" has ever been applied to anywhere else in the ground, certainly not for league games. Folk in the East would be entitled to be disappointed if the club started messing them about just to accommodate another thousand cultural ambassadors from Oldham.

Great points about next season.

That said, we have to remind ourselves that we can't rely on Phil and Ash forever, and need to become self-sustainable.

[JonB]

Looker-on, on 14 May 2025 - 08:35 AM, said:

Walsall (this season,) Notts, Port Vale, Donny, Bradford, Grimsby have all brought their allocation, or close to it, to our place this season. At least three and possibly four of those won't be here next season, and will be replaced by Crawley (114,) Bristol Rovers (934,) Cambridge (220) and Shrewsbury.(666) Figures in brackets are the highest that they've ever brought here. So Bristol Rovers might bring more than 1k, if they do well, as might York or Oldham, if they come up and do well, or if we get them early doors. I wouldn't be giving Oldham more than 1k after their last performance here.

So I think it'll be a bit less of an issue next season. Which I suppose means that we can more easily carry on as we are, or we can more easily shift folk about, given that it'd happen less.

Could we add part of N5 to the away allocation in the East Stand, and make anyone in it use the facilities under Little East?

I think that when season tickets were sold for the North it was done on the understanding that folk might not be able to buy their usual seat for big cup games, but I don't think that same principle of "you buy entry, but not a guaranteed seat" has ever been applied to anywhere else in the ground, certainly not for league games. Folk in the East would be entitled to be disappointed if the club started messing them about just to accommodate another thousand cultural ambassadors from Oldham.

I got the impression that the day Oldham played up they would have been in the East Stand had it not been for the wonderful National League hierarchy deciding on the eve of the season that away clubs could request 15% of total capacity for away fans when we'd already decided on the setup and selling season tickets in the North Stand. Oldham were the only club that did it and the only way it works at our ground is to put them in the north stand.

EFL is 10% with wiggle room for different things so there is no reason for them to be anywhere but in the East Stand and it seems reading into one of the comments by DalekPete that the authorities are happy with the East Stand setup if they are saying barely any games are seen as high risk with the setup as it is.

[azul]

Looker-on, on 14 May 2025 - 08:35 AM, said:

Walsall (this season,) Notts, Port Vale, Donny, Bradford, Grimsby have all brought their allocation, or close to it, to our place this season. At least three and possibly four of those won't be here next season, and will be replaced by Crawley (114,) Bristol Rovers (934,) Cambridge (220) and Shrewsbury.(666) Figures in brackets are the highest that they've ever brought here. So Bristol Rovers might bring more than 1k, if they do well, as might York or Oldham, if they come up and do well, or if we get them early doors. I wouldn't be giving Oldham more than 1k after their last performance here.

So I think it'll be a bit less of an issue next season. Which I suppose means that we can more easily carry on as we are, or we can more easily shift folk about, given that it'd happen less.

Could we add part of N5 to the away allocation in the East Stand, and make anyone in it use the facilities under Little East?

I think that when season tickets were sold for the North it was done on the understanding that folk might not be able to buy their usual seat for big cup games, but I don't think that same principle of "you buy entry, but not a guaranteed seat" has ever been applied to anywhere else in the ground, certainly not for league games. Folk in the East would be entitled to be disappointed if the club started messing them about just to accommodate another thousand cultural ambassadors from Oldham.

Definitely less of an issue next season with only Notts County (if they fail to go up), Grimsby, York/Oldham (if they succeed in going up) and a few other clubs (e.g. Swindon/Bristol) if they are doing really well. Let's face it Notts County are already giving us the minimum. It would be interesting to see if Bradford and Doncaster would be prepared to give us 3000 if they hadn't gone up.

This post has been edited by azul: 14 May 2025 - 08:48 AM

[DerbySpireite59]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 08:37 AM, said:

Yep i'm not quite as old as you but remember the days of 5000 at Saltergate seen as a big crowd and now we see anything under 7000 as not a great turn out. Its great to see but i think what has also changed with the Kirks in charge is the mindset and you trust them to make the right decisions at the right times. If it gets to the point where our fans in the North stand isnt working then we go back to how things started but it would be foolish to not try and build on whats happening currently and have it so as many of our own fans can be in as possible.

Again, I'm 100% with you.

[azul]

JonB, on 14 May 2025 - 08:41 AM, said:

I got the impression that the day Oldham played up they would have been in the East Stand had it not been for the wonderful National League hierarchy deciding on the eve of the season that away clubs could request 15% of total capacity for away fans when we'd already decided on the setup and selling season tickets in the North Stand. Oldham were the only club that did it and the only way it works at our ground is to put them in the north stand.

EFL is 10% with wiggle room for different things so there is no reason for them to be anywhere but in the East Stand and it seems reading into one of the comments by DalekPete that the authorities are happy with the East Stand setup if they are saying barely any games are seen as high risk with the setup as it is.

I always think it is nice that when Bradford turn up we have only a few seats segregation. Gone are the days we needed a whole block and a half segregation.

[DerbySpireite59]

azul, on 14 May 2025 - 08:54 AM, said:

I always think it is nice that when Bradford turn up we have only a few seats segregation. Gone are the days we needed a whole block and a half segregation.

Agreed. 👍

[Paul Fisher]

Our home record since the club started using the North Stand for home fans has vastly improved as well. Only four losses in the regular league season over two years, is excellent.

More home fans for the players, more home fans for the atmosphere. The players like it, the fans like it.

[Exharboroughspireite]

just had a conversation about away allocation at work with a county fan. home grounds should be for home fans. good to see the days of 2500 away fans packing the away end has come to an end. leads to further trouble and presumably extra police costs. only thing I would ask for is for a further barrier to be put between home and away fans in the east stand. the mindless banging of the metal separation door is really annoying!