[Cactoise]

Painted Wagon, on 16 January 2025 - 11:14 PM, said:

We recalled Hobson and Drummond due to our injury crisis who have subsequently featured for us but to recall a player from an agreed season long loan (purely down to the performances he has put in) to loan him out again when someone dangles a bigger carrot has left a sour taste. I?m just too na?ve clearly

Isn't that how we've picked up Pepple from his loan at Southend?

[JonB]

Spireite-Karl, on 17 January 2025 - 06:02 AM, said:

Fair point really. And Stoke recalled Lowe from Walsall as he was banging them in and it's understandable that Robins as a new manager in charge would want to see what he can do for himself. Dilan was happy here as well and he didn't want to leave as he didn't want to stall his development that was coming along nicely. For Dilan I don't want his new loan move to backfire, though it would serve Blackburn right if it did. Perhaps if this does happen we could pick him up again in the summer, though I accept I'm clutching a straws here. Good luck with your future Dilan, wherever that may lie. Once a Spireite, always a Spireite 💙🤍

Lowe recall partly down to Leicester recalling Tom Cannon from
Stoke to sell him on.

[Painted Wagon]

Cactoise, on 17 January 2025 - 06:53 AM, said:

Isn't that how we've picked up Pepple from his loan at Southend?

In which case cactoise, fair enough. What goes around comes around I suppose

[Bluekent]

Painted Wagon, on 16 January 2025 - 11:14 PM, said:

We recalled Hobson and Drummond due to our injury crisis who have subsequently featured for us but to recall a player from an agreed season long loan (purely down to the performances he has put in) to loan him out again when someone dangles a bigger carrot has left a sour taste. I?m just too na?ve clearly

We?ve got pepple for the exact same reason.

[Spireite-Karl]

Cactoise, on 17 January 2025 - 06:53 AM, said:

Isn't that how we've picked up Pepple from his loan at Southend?

It is, though it doesn't make it right. Even on the league two banter group with all jokes left aside, most fans from other clubs said that Lowe should be left to finish the season at Walsall and it's wrong that bigger clubs do this. I understand it in an injury crisis or if a new manager has come in and he wants to assess all of his players that have a chance of the first team, but just to loan out to someone else isn't a great look. I get that's the way it is ATM, though it's just another way to give more power to the bigger clubs.

[PontePete]

Saw the picture of DM wearing the Leyton Orient scarf on their ?X? post announcing his arrival last night, left a bad taste.

Good luck to the lad though, an absolute class act who iI?m pleased we had the pleasure of seeing in the blue shirt.

[azul]

Spireite-Karl, on 17 January 2025 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is, though it doesn't make it right. Even on the league two banter group with all jokes left aside, most fans from other clubs said that Lowe should be left to finish the season at Walsall and it's wrong that bigger clubs do this. I understand it in an injury crisis or if a new manager has come in and he wants to assess all of his players that have a chance of the first team, but just to loan out to someone else isn't a great look. I get that's the way it is ATM, though it's just another way to give more power to the bigger clubs.

These recall clauses seem to becoming more and more widespread. If the rules were tightened up then season long loans would dry up and we'd be left with 6 month loans or rather window to window loans. Perhaps that would be for the better, more transparent and avoids disappointments

Not sure it is heathy or in their long term interest for smaller clubs to build their success on loans anyway.

[Westbars Spireite]

Those clubs that get promoted from L2 to L1 based on the performance of 2/3 outstanding loanees invariably struggle massively the following season.

[JonB]

Spireite-Karl, on 17 January 2025 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is, though it doesn't make it right. Even on the league two banter group with all jokes left aside, most fans from other clubs said that Lowe should be left to finish the season at Walsall and it's wrong that bigger clubs do this. I understand it in an injury crisis or if a new manager has come in and he wants to assess all of his players that have a chance of the first team, but just to loan out to someone else isn't a great look. I get that's the way it is ATM, though it's just another way to give more power to the bigger clubs.

You do realise that Lowe has been called back by Stoke who have a new manager and they have just lost a striker they had on loan who has been recalled by the parent club so have a gap to fill especially as he wont count towards their squad numbers being u21. Makes complete sense that a striker that is out on loan and scoring is recalled to potentially then be used by his parent club. Not seen anything about Lowe going back out on loan.

[erniemossity]

azul, on 16 January 2025 - 07:47 PM, said:

Pity he never on the pitch.

Joking aside he looked pedestrian in his 15 minutes against Horsham and hopeless in his 15 minutes in the EFL Trophy. He looked totally unfit. Do you think he is coming back fitter after his recent layoff. I'd love to think so , but.....

Anyone see him doing some running on the pitch before the game? He looked well overweight

[JonB]

azul, on 17 January 2025 - 08:44 AM, said:

These recall clauses seem to becoming more and more widespread. If the rules were tightened up then season long loans would dry up and we'd be left with 6 month loans or rather window to window loans. Perhaps that would be for the better, more transparent and avoids disappointments

Not sure it is heathy or in their long term interest for smaller clubs to build their success on loans anyway.

They are not recall clauses put in as such, i think its a case that technically there is no such thing as a full season loan rather all loans run window to window and while they may be announced as season long initially it still counts on being renewed in the window and that may not happen for various reasons.

erniemossity, on 17 January 2025 - 08:50 AM, said:

Anyone see him doing some running on the pitch before the game? He looked well overweight

Fleck has always been a bigger build even when playing for United in the prem. Not a chance he will be overweight when he had been training during the summer then with us prior to him signing.

This post has been edited by JonB: 17 January 2025 - 08:52 AM

[Bald magician]

PontePete, on 17 January 2025 - 08:25 AM, said:

Saw the picture of DM wearing the Leyton Orient scarf on their ?X? post announcing his arrival last night, left a bad taste.

Good luck to the lad though, an absolute class act who iI?m pleased we had the pleasure of seeing in the blue shirt.

Unfortunately it just goes to show the shallowness of football. Yeah I get it. It?s all about money. Shame though.

What I don?t get in some ways is signing a player on loan for the season and then the minute he has a few good games he can be moved on. It?s almost like you want all loan signings to be nothing other than average. That doesn?t benefit lower league clubs like us at all.

My overall thought on the markandy saga is one of dissatisfaction.

[born in 1866]

JonB, on 17 January 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

They are not recall clauses put in as such, i think its a case that technically there is no such thing as a full season loan rather all loans run window to window and while they may be announced as season long initially it still counts on being renewed in the window and that may not happen for various reasons.


Fleck has always been a bigger build even when playing for United in the prem. Not a chance he will be overweight when he had been training during the summer then with us prior to him signing.

Long term loans can be for any length from 93 days to a full season, for full season loans a club, if agreed by all parties, can recall a player during the January transfer window.
That agreement would have been inserted and signed off within the original loan agreement.

This post has been edited by born in 1866: 17 January 2025 - 09:12 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

PontePete, on 17 January 2025 - 08:25 AM, said:

Saw the picture of DM wearing the Leyton Orient scarf on their ?X? post announcing his arrival last night, left a bad taste.

Good luck to the lad though, an absolute class act who iI?m pleased we had the pleasure of seeing in the blue shirt.

Stand out player and if we are honest he was too good for L2 and we were lucky to get him in the first place. Still disappointing though

[Spireite-Karl]

JonB, on 17 January 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

You do realise that Lowe has been called back by Stoke who have a new manager and they have just lost a striker they had on loan who has been recalled by the parent club so have a gap to fill especially as he wont count towards their squad numbers being u21. Makes complete sense that a striker that is out on loan and scoring is recalled to potentially then be used by his parent club. Not seen anything about Lowe going back out on loan.

Yes I do realise that Jon and it was probably a poor example as I did justify that decision in my previous post, even though I used him as an example of what fans think about these recalls. If a recall is to stay at the parent club and be involved in the first team then that's fair enough, my reasoning is for them to ship them out again on loan when they were doing well should be looked at imo.

[azul]

JonB, on 17 January 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

They are not recall clauses put in as such, i think its a case that technically there is no such thing as a full season loan rather all loans run window to window and while they may be announced as season long initially it still counts on being renewed in the window and that may not happen for various reasons.

They do exist

56 STANDARD LOANS
56.1.1 subject to the proviso that the duration of a Standard Loan must be the time between two Transfer Windows, Standard Loans can be for half a Season or a full Season;

56.1.2 any recall clause requiring the early termination of a Standard Loan can only be included in a full Season Standard Loan and this can only be activated during the Winter Transfer Window;

It goes on to suggest that a recall clause can be inserted at any time

The EFL will permit Clubs to amend Standard Loan Agreements to include an early termination clause where this was omitted from the original agreement.

Any other other early termination has to be agreed by all parties and the EFL.

Perhaps the clubs signing a season long loan should mention if a recall clause as been inserted to avoid disappointing their fans. As far as I'm aware the first sniff of it was when Markanday wasn't allowed to play in the FA Cup

This post has been edited by azul: 17 January 2025 - 10:06 AM

[warfey is a spireite]

Exharboroughspireite, on 17 January 2025 - 06:07 AM, said:

He looks about two stone overweight let?s be honest

Don't say that the happy clappers will uproar

[dim view]

azul, on 17 January 2025 - 09:55 AM, said:

They do exist


Perhaps the clubs signing a season long loan should mention if a recall clause as been inserted to avoid disappointing their fans. As far as I'm aware the first sniff of it was when Markanday wasn't allowed to play in the FA Cup

I bet CFC would have liked to have made an offer for Dilon as his reputation grew, but couldn't do so outside of the transfer window. Dilon had been out of favour with the Blackburn manager. There would of course have been a period when Cook and his team knew they'd got a gem before anybody else did.

Having said that, maybe the wages would have always been too high.

[JonB]

azul, on 17 January 2025 - 09:55 AM, said:

They do exist

56 STANDARD LOANS
56.1.1 subject to the proviso that the duration of a Standard Loan must be the time between two Transfer Windows, Standard Loans can be for half a Season or a full Season;

56.1.2 any recall clause requiring the early termination of a Standard Loan can only be included in a full Season Standard Loan and this can only be activated during the Winter Transfer Window;

It goes on to suggest that a recall clause can be inserted at any time

The EFL will permit Clubs to amend Standard Loan Agreements to include an early termination clause where this was omitted from the original agreement.

Any other other early termination has to be agreed by all parties and the EFL.

Perhaps the clubs signing a season long loan should mention if a recall clause as been inserted to avoid disappointing their fans. As far as I'm aware the first sniff of it was when Markanday wasn't allowed to play in the FA Cup

Looks like that has changed as it used to be loads window to window. I suspect its safe to assume a recall is in there to be honest, loaning club will always want that cover to do it for any number of reasons.

dim view, on 17 January 2025 - 10:18 AM, said:

I bet CFC would have liked to have made an offer for Dilon as his reputation grew, but couldn't do so outside of the transfer window. Dilon had been out of favour with the Blackburn manager. There would of course have been a period when Cook and his team knew they'd got a gem before anybody else did.

Having said that, maybe the wages would have always been too high.

Nothing stopping us making a bid, agreeing a deal and sorting a contract with the player ahead of the transfer window....it just couldnt be completed and signed off until the window opened thats all.

[azul]

JonB, on 17 January 2025 - 10:23 AM, said:

Looks like that has changed as it used to be loads window to window. I suspect its safe to assume a recall is in there to be honest, loaning club will always want that cover to do it for any number of reasons.

I think the difference may be in the seniority of the player as Markanday was a squad player and a fairly senior one. I expect Blackburn wan't to recoup some of their expenditure whereas the Fulham youngsters for example were probably loaned purely for development purposes. I looked at the Orient site and their DoF confirmed who and who not had recall clauses.