[Walton Spireite]

 moondog, on 03 December 2024 - 10:31 PM, said:

You've created 3 based around tonight's match alone, no one else does it

All valid threads raising the questions that need answering and quickly.

[dtp]

Are we actually forgetting that Sheckleford started his first game all season on Saturday and did not last the full 90?

He needs nursing back to full match fitness.

As all our other RBs are injured Cook had to make a decision - Mandeville or Jessop?

It is easy with hindsight to say he got it wrong.

However, many have said on these boards, and probably the ones doing the most moaning now, that Mandeville is not a RB, is wasted there, and needed further forward.

I think, having been rested today, Sheckleford will start again on Saturday and fill one of our current problem positions.

However, defensive midfield will be a problem unless Naylor becomes available. And, whilst people moan about Fleck they should not forget Jones who has struggled for fitness this season but most felt deserved another 12 months.

We will pull through, though.

[Bluekent]

 Walton Spireite, on 03 December 2024 - 08:22 PM, said:

So Mr Cook why did you play Sheckleford on Saturday and play Jessop (I actually feel sorry for him so far out if his depth it's untrue) bad Management.

He?s explained in his post match interview why he didn?t play shecks if you?d care to watch it. Not that you should need to watch it. It was obvious why he wasn?t gonna be played. He?s not played a game due to injury since got was toddling about.

[DerbySpireite59]

 Walton Spireite, on 03 December 2024 - 10:24 PM, said:

Well he took him off after 20 mins. Says it all really.

The score was 1-0 and Oldaker was still on the pitch at 24 mins. I really thought that Liam was taken off on thec33rd minute after having gone down to 10 men and them immediately scoring g second goal. My bad.

 dtp, on 03 December 2024 - 10:45 PM, said:

Are we actually forgetting that Sheckleford started his first game all season on Saturday and did not last the full 90?

He needs nursing back to full match fitness.

As all our other RBs are injured Cook had to make a decision - Mandeville or Jessop?

It is easy with hindsight to say he got it wrong.

However, many have said on these boards, and probably the ones doing the most moaning now, that Mandeville is not a RB, is wasted there, and needed further forward.

I think, having been rested today, Sheckleford will start again on Saturday and fill one of our current problem positions.

However, defensive midfield will be a problem unless Naylor becomes available. And, whilst people moan about Fleck they should not forget Jones who has struggled for fitness this season but most felt deserved another 12 months.

We will pull through, though.

Furthermore. Liam has done quite well in his limited appearances over the past 18 months.

[rodney]

 Dapets, on 03 December 2024 - 10:16 PM, said:

He?s managed in the championship I?m sure he?s better positioned than us to judge who can and can?t perform at the level

Yes he has managed in the Championship but tonight he was very wrong. Horrific decision, both for the match tonight, and now the lad himself. As others have said he?s probably the 4th best right back in the squad of 16. Of Cook thinks he?s ready for an away game at MK I?m concerned

[Cartman]

Do we really think Cook picked Jessop knowing he isn?t good enough?

The lad has looked ok in previous games and I?m assuming Sheckleford isn?t fully fit and Cook wanted Williams and Araujo as the centre back pairing to combat the pace and movement of Dons front players (ie in front of Grimes)

It obviously didn?t work and Jessop looked a bit lost, not every mangerial decision will work!

Main issue was the sending off, despite that we made a decent fist of it and had plenty of good chances which on another day go in

Injury list is a crisis at the moment, manager needs to try and work around that

[dim view]

 Walton Spireite, on 03 December 2024 - 08:22 PM, said:

So Mr Cook why did you play Sheckleford on Saturday and play Jessop (I actually feel sorry for him so far out if his depth it's untrue) bad Management.

And................
In my opinion the first goal isn't Jessop's fault at all. I'd say Williams and Araujo are both asleep, out of position in case Jessop gets beaten by the fullback. In fact, they are both dozing for the second anawl. No leadership in the back line, and Grigg captain.
The third is offside.

Oldaker, imo, is simply pointing out to the ref that he was fouled in an identical manner to the incident for which he received his first booking, so their player should have been booked. When the ref took no action, he said summat else within earshot. But the move, in which Oldaker received a throw out, beat the block in spite of being fouled, and fed Mandeville, was to be applauded. Very poor reffing. He let their player off because he played advantage.

[Phil V 72]

 Cartman, on 03 December 2024 - 11:53 PM, said:

Do we really think Cook picked Jessop knowing he isn?t good enough?

The lad has looked ok in previous games and I?m assuming Sheckleford isn?t fully fit and Cook wanted Williams and Araujo as the centre back pairing to combat the pace and movement of Dons front players (ie in front of Grimes)

It obviously didn?t work and Jessop looked a bit lost, not every mangerial decision will work!

Main issue was the sending off, despite that we made a decent fist of it and had plenty of good chances which on another day go in

Injury list is a crisis at the moment, manager needs to try and work around that

My take is also that he took a gamble on Jessop and it didn?t pay off. It happens Sometimes managers do this and this can happen, other times it pays off spectacularly and everyone praises the manager to the hilt. The way our luck is at the moment, it didn?t pay off.

Hopefully a big learning point for Jessop about the levels he need to get to and the work he needs to put in to become a first teamer.

This post has been edited by Phil V 72: 04 December 2024 - 11:14 AM

[warfey is a spireite]

 Walton Spireite, on 03 December 2024 - 10:29 PM, said:

Don't worry Dave I usually do. It's the only messageboard I know that you can't create more than one thread per day.

Ban you and me he's a keyboard warrior and a complete ******

[hilly81]

 dim view, on 04 December 2024 - 11:08 AM, said:

And................
In my opinion the first goal isn't Jessop's fault at all. I'd say Williams and Araujo are both asleep, out of position in case Jessop gets beaten by the fullback. In fact, they are both dozing for the second anawl. No leadership in the back line, and Grigg captain.
The third is offside.

Oldaker, imo, is simply pointing out to the ref that he was fouled in an identical manner to the incident for which he received his first booking, so their player should have been booked. When the ref took no action, he said summat else within earshot. But the move, in which Oldaker received a throw out, beat the block in spite of being fouled, and fed Mandeville, was to be applauded. Very poor reffing. He let their player off because he played advantage.

Their first goal is just an absolute horror show. We setup like we had the kick-off. Markanday went forward leaving Jessop with 2 men running towards him immediately. Slack in the middle from Banks and Oldaker (it's a good pass out to the wing to be fair). Jessop beaten far too easily. Good ball into the box but Araujo is sleeping (I'm not putting any blame on Williams here) and Banks just lets the runner go while pointing at someone else to pick him up. Keeper no chance. It's a slick move from MK Dons but absolutely woeful play from us. As bad a goal as we have conceded this season.

[jack bauer]

 hilly81, on 04 December 2024 - 11:25 AM, said:

Their first goal is just an absolute horror show. We setup like we had the kick-off. Markanday went forward leaving Jessop with 2 men running towards him immediately. Slack in the middle from Banks and Oldaker (it's a good pass out to the wing to be fair). Jessop beaten far too easily. Good ball into the box but Araujo is sleeping (I'm not putting any blame on Williams here) and Banks just lets the runner go while pointing at someone else to pick him up. Keeper no chance. It's a slick move from MK Dons but absolutely woeful play from us. As bad a goal as we have conceded this season.

i think one of the errors last night was starting mandeville in the central position, he would i feel have offered more help to jessop over on the right than markandy does/did

[dim view]

 hilly81, on 04 December 2024 - 11:25 AM, said:

Their first goal is just an absolute horror show. We setup like we had the kick-off. Markanday went forward leaving Jessop with 2 men running towards him immediately. Slack in the middle from Banks and Oldaker (it's a good pass out to the wing to be fair). Jessop beaten far too easily. Good ball into the box but Araujo is sleeping (I'm not putting any blame on Williams here) and Banks just lets the runner go while pointing at someone else to pick him up. Keeper no chance. It's a slick move from MK Dons but absolutely woeful play from us. As bad a goal as we have conceded this season.

Yep, Jessup is beaten but the distance between him and Williams is far too big. The closer Williams gets to him the harder it is for the fullback to get a good ball in. It would be very interesting to know whether Jessup was warned beforehand that the player who beat him on the inside was a right footer playing left.

Every defensive clip on the highlights appears to show an out of sorts Williams and Araujo. No wonder the formation was changed.

[Osborne again]

I like Jessop, and this little dip won't put him back. Every young player will have setbacks and our young full back isn't any different. Ask him if he'd rather been left on the bench all game instead, I'm sure I know what he'd say. Even full internationals get hooked now and again.
I'd rather say poor game than out of his depth, and I'm sure that if called upon again, he'll have a better game.

[hilly81]

 Osborne again, on 04 December 2024 - 01:11 PM, said:

I like Jessop, and this little dip won't put him back. Every young player will have setbacks and our young full back isn't any different. Ask him if he'd rather been left on the bench all game instead, I'm sure I know what he'd say. Even full internationals get hooked now and again.
I'd rather say poor game than out of his depth, and I'm sure that if called upon again, he'll have a better game.

Yep. He will be fine. Like PC said in his interview, nights like that are all part of the learning curve. I remember years ago watching one of Steven Gerrard's very first games for Liverpool. He'd have probably only been 18 or 19. He looked like a fish out of water. He didn't turn out too bad.

[Osborne again]

 hilly81, on 04 December 2024 - 01:15 PM, said:

Yep. He will be fine. Like PC said in his interview, nights like that are all part of the learning curve. I remember years ago watching one of Steven Gerrard's very first games for Liverpool. He'd have probably only been 18 or 19. He looked like a fish out of water. He didn't turn out too bad.

I've watched him both live and via YouTube, and I really do rate him as a future first team starter. As you have pointed out,even the great Steven Gerrard had to learn the hard way.

[frearsghost]

I thought I'd look up Albert Holmes a right back who some may remember played hard and a great slide tackler.

In seasons beginning 1965, he played 24 successive games at right back missing just one.
In 1966 he played all 46 league games and three cup games.
In 1967 he repeated that feat.
In 1968 he made 25 successive appearances and two cup games missing just one. He then played successively in the final eight games
In 1969 he played 46 games and four cup ties again.
!n 1970 he played 25 successive games.
In 1971 he played in 40 league games and seven cup ties.
In 1972 he played in 34 games and four cup ties.
In 1973 he played in the final 17 successive matches.

Albert Holmes didn't do injury for most of his career, so I'm asking, what's the difference between a hard tackling right back like him and today's chocolate fireguards?

[Valley Blues]

Is Jessop a full back?

I?ve not really seen owt of him but had in my mind he was an attacking player.

If he is a full back I?m not sure what I was thinking.

[dtp]

 frearsghost, on 04 December 2024 - 01:57 PM, said:

I thought I'd look up Albert Holmes a right back who some may remember played hard and a great slide tackler.

In seasons beginning 1965, he played 24 successive games at right back missing just one.
In 1966 he played all 46 league games and three cup games.
In 1967 he repeated that feat.
In 1968 he made 25 successive appearances and two cup games missing just one. He then played successively in the final eight games
In 1969 he played 46 games and four cup ties again.
!n 1970 he played 25 successive games.
In 1971 he played in 40 league games and seven cup ties.
In 1972 he played in 34 games and four cup ties.
In 1973 he played in the final 17 successive matches.

Albert Holmes didn't do injury for most of his career, so I'm asking, what's the difference between a hard tackling right back like him and today's chocolate fireguards?

I think you could name quite a few more, mate, too. Players who were always available.

Probably managed that because they did not have all these experts telling them what to eat to keep fit etc and were first down to the pub to sink a couple of pints after a game for their warm down.

[Osborne again]

 frearsghost, on 04 December 2024 - 01:57 PM, said:

I thought I'd look up Albert Holmes a right back who some may remember played hard and a great slide tackler.

In seasons beginning 1965, he played 24 successive games at right back missing just one.
In 1966 he played all 46 league games and three cup games.
In 1967 he repeated that feat.
In 1968 he made 25 successive appearances and two cup games missing just one. He then played successively in the final eight games
In 1969 he played 46 games and four cup ties again.
!n 1970 he played 25 successive games.
In 1971 he played in 40 league games and seven cup ties.
In 1972 he played in 34 games and four cup ties.
In 1973 he played in the final 17 successive matches.

Albert Holmes didn't do injury for most of his career, so I'm asking, what's the difference between a hard tackling right back like him and today's chocolate fireguards?

Albert was one of my favourite players during his many years with Town and I was pleased as punch when I learnt his trademark slide tackle.

[Bkauns19]

I've worked with Liam, he's always been more attacking playing up top or on the wing but is versatile, got good potential and these experiences will only help him.