[60s 70s Spireite]

Toddhopper., on 12 October 2024 - 04:19 PM, said:

There are 2 handballs unless my beery eyes are playing tricks on me.. Mandy's obvious one & then Jones blocks the subsequent shot which I believe is the one the ref gives the penalty for.
Please bear in mind I haven't seen it again though.

I would wait until you have seen the 2 minutes highlights (available on Sky Sports) before you back up that one. Nothing like.
Sorry.

[BlueRodneyFern]

BLUE SINCE 62, on 12 October 2024 - 03:25 PM, said:

Just remember Griggs goal was offside

Look at the TV replay he is onside just because his marker never moved

[Toddhopper.]

60s 70s Spireite, on 12 October 2024 - 04:26 PM, said:

I would wait until you have seen the 2 minutes highlights (available on Sky Sports) before you back up that one. Nothing like.
Sorry.

No need to apologise, its amazing what you can see after several pints!

[sophocles]

BlueRodneyFern, on 12 October 2024 - 02:08 PM, said:

I have just watched it back on TV never a pen what could Mandy do and if VAR was there it would have been chalked off as I thought they had rewritten the handball rule and ref did OK for 80 mins then started random descions been given and silly bookings too

VAR would 100% have given it because it would have shown numerous freeze-frame shots of Mandy's arm up almost level with his chest and sticking out sideways away from his body. VAR makes every movement look deliberate and that one would have taken seconds to confirm. Of course Mandy didn't handle it intentionally, but that is completely irrelevant.

[warfey is a spireite]

Unfortunately it was a clear pen Mandys arm definitely handled ,shame as thought we'd just done enough ,why can't we hold out how many times have we conceded late

[paulwardle]

We are used to seeing too much analysis on tv with VAR.

I think we?ve been unlucky with certain decisions this season down to human error. The most obvious one was the foul in the box against Swindon.

Thought referees would be better this season but not sure they are.Teams seem to be more cynical and the likes of Dobra are getting less protection.

[Looker-on]

warfey is a spireite, on 13 October 2024 - 08:25 AM, said:

Unfortunately it was a clear pen Mandys arm definitely handled ,shame as thought we'd just done enough ,why can't we hold out how many times have we conceded late

If we say that "late" is any time from the 80th minute, then along with six other clubs, we've done it twice in the league this season. Eleven other clubs have done it more - Accrington have conceded late seven times so far. Only three clubs haven't conceded after the 80th minute so far this season. It doesn't seem like it of course, but we're really no better or worse than average.

[JonB]

Looker-on, on 14 October 2024 - 10:13 AM, said:

If we say that "late" is any time from the 80th minute, then along with six other clubs, we've done it twice in the league this season. Eleven other clubs have done it more - Accrington have conceded late seven times so far. Only three clubs haven't conceded after the 80th minute so far this season. It doesn't seem like it of course, but we're really no better or worse than average.

Ah see what you have done here is actually use the stats to show something isnt really happening.....thats just not on!!

[dim view]

JonB, on 14 October 2024 - 10:25 AM, said:

Ah see what you have done here is actually use the stats to show something isnt really happening.....thats just not on!!

Walton Spireite has concluded that we have no height or strength, I think based on the concession of 1 goal.

[JonB]

dim view, on 14 October 2024 - 10:30 AM, said:

Walton Spireite has concluded that we have no height or strength, I think based on the concession of 1 goal.

I think in general if he thinks something is a problem there is a fair chance it isnt...

[DIFH]

BLUE SINCE 62, on 12 October 2024 - 03:25 PM, said:

Just remember Griggs goal was offside

Look again, there was a defender and one of our lads grappling with each other the other side of Grigg partially hidden.

[Looker-on]

dim view, on 14 October 2024 - 10:30 AM, said:

Walton Spireite has concluded that we have no height or strength, I think based on the concession of 1 goal.

Certainly not based on Grigg's goal v Notts, where Naylor outjumped their big bloke to flick it on.

[Wooden Spoon]

BlueRodneyFern, on 12 October 2024 - 02:08 PM, said:

I have just watched it back on TV never a pen what could Mandy do and if VAR was there it would have been chalked off as I thought they had rewritten the handball rule and ref did OK for 80 mins then started random descions been given and silly bookings too

Under current hand hall rules it?s a penalty

[JonB]

Wooden Spoon, on 15 October 2024 - 06:09 AM, said:

Under current hand hall rules it?s a penalty

See someone either on this thread or the match thread has said under the current rules its not a penalty and i think even posted a link to the rule so says a lot about the current rule that none of us know for certain!

The issue is going to be this part about position of the arm :-
touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

Now i've only watched it a couple of times but in my eyes Mandeville was trying to move his arm out of the way of the ball hence why his arm was where it was. In my eyes thats a justifiable reason for why his arm was where it was. It wasnt one of these where they come out to block a shot\cross with their body spread. If you go back to the Donny game that was handball as the player leaned his arm towards the ball, Mandeville isnt doing that, he is trying to get his arm out of the way of the ball from a natural position to start with.

This post has been edited by JonB: 15 October 2024 - 07:30 AM

[clarevoyant.]

JonB, on 15 October 2024 - 07:24 AM, said:

See someone either on this thread or the match thread has said under the current rules its not a penalty and i think even posted a link to the rule so says a lot about the current rule that none of us know for certain!

The issue is going to be this part about position of the arm :-
touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player?s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

Now i've only watched it a couple of times but in my eyes Mandeville was trying to move his arm out of the way of the ball hence why his arm was where it was. In my eyes thats a justifiable reason for why his arm was where it was. It wasnt one of these where they come out to block a shot\cross with their body spread. If you go back to the Donny game that was handball as the player leaned his arm towards the ball, Mandeville isnt doing that, he is trying to get his arm out of the way of the ball from a natural position to start with.

Exactly. Unfortunately, this ref has been a bit unlucky!! having been challenged by rule interpretations he appears to have got wrong or not known. And more unfortunate for us.

An unbelievable appointment by the appointing bods, considering the history.

[JonB]

clarevoyant., on 15 October 2024 - 08:17 AM, said:

Exactly. Unfortunately, this ref has been a bit unlucky!! having been challenged by rule interpretations he appears to have got wrong or not known. And more unfortunate for us.

An unbelievable appointment by the appointing bods, considering the history.

In his defence it shows how tricky it is when we have a split of opinion on here about it. Its how you see what Mandeville is doing with his arm.

[clarevoyant.]

JonB, on 15 October 2024 - 08:37 AM, said:

In his defence it shows how tricky it is when we have a split of opinion on here about it. Its how you see what Mandeville is doing with his arm.

Yes I agree, but I'm biased when it comes to this bloke, what with the King sending off and the Wembley balls up, let's face it, if he'd got that right notts could have been playing at the likes of Guiseley in the qualifying Rd of the fa cup on saturday, he therefore gets no slack from me.

Anyway back to the 'rub of the green' the way things are going if it had been the other way round do you think we'd have got a pen?

Why did he take so long to point to the spot?

[Westbars Spireite]

clarevoyant., on 15 October 2024 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yes I agree, but I'm biased when it comes to this bloke, what with the King sending off and the Wembley balls up, let's face it, if he'd got that right notts could have been playing at the likes of Guiseley in the qualifying Rd of the fa cup on saturday, he therefore gets no slack from me.

Anyway back to the 'rub of the green' the way things are going if it had been the other way round do you think we'd have got a pen?

Why did he take so long to point to the spot?

We did at Doncaster.

[clarevoyant.]

Westbars Spireite, on 15 October 2024 - 08:52 AM, said:

We did at Doncaster.

There wasn't any doubt as JB explains above.

[Westbars Spireite]

clarevoyant., on 15 October 2024 - 08:59 AM, said:

There wasn't any doubt as JB explains above.

There is always doubt as the laws are virtually impossible to interpret and are implemented inconsistently. Did the Doncaster player intend to touch the ball with his hand? No, almost certainly not.