[Spireiteranger]

Bonnyman, on 06 October 2024 - 10:07 AM, said:

It won?t happen but this would be what I would try as a formation, it?s not without flaws but I feel we may be better off

Boot in goal, I think his distribution is key
Back 3 of right side Dunkley, central grimes, left side araujo, this adds inches to the back line, grimes can?t get pulled out of position in the middle

Midfield 3 of Metcalfe naylor and dobro at the head of the triangle, match or outnumber the opposition, huge amount of energy in that 3 left side berry, right wing colclugh, give dobs a free roll , berry and colclough to be told to run themselves too a standstill

Upfront TWO of grigg and madden, we simply have to give support to grigg, we want goals from all areas of the 18 yard box



Subs
Mandeville any role on the right or middle , right back never he has no pace off the mark

Gordon, unlucky but he can fill in on the left for berry or left for araujo

Mark Andy
Cover for colclough
Fleck central

I think cookies job is safe!

[OneDecentLester]

Bonnyman, on 06 October 2024 - 10:07 AM, said:

It won?t happen

I took a big sigh of relief at this part

[Bonnyman]

Yet had to go too a three yesterday as getting totally dominated

[dim view]

Bonnyman, on 06 October 2024 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yet had to go too a three yesterday as getting totally dominated

For me, the biggest question about our set up yesterday was how come our fullbacks were stopped from raiding down their wings. Not a single example comes to mind and yet that tactic is the whole basis of our attacking theory. If that thrives, it's secondary who is leading the line.

Any suggestions?

[Bonnyman]

dim view, on 06 October 2024 - 02:29 PM, said:

For me, the biggest question about our set up yesterday was how come our fullbacks were stopped from raiding down their wings. Not a single example comes to mind and yet that tactic is the whole basis of our attacking theory. If that thrives, it's secondary who is leading the line.

Any suggestions?

You are correct, Gordon and mandeville were pinned by Walsall?s pressing, mandeville ( not a right back imo) was looking to Cooky and appeared to be wondering where his options were, what happened on a couple of occasions was he went into a position further forward with naylor filling in the hole left but that also left us short in midfield, full credit to Walsall?s management they completely stopped us getting players flooding forward, they made our holding midfielders come under more pressure than they have all season and they completely isolated our wide men , markandy and dobra anonymous, this did change instantly when cook came up with a masterstroke in gambling with 4 subs and formation change, he took away the problem of the fullbacks being pinned by completely taking them away, instantly we were higher up the pitch and matching them numerically in midfield.. cooks most impressive sub change imo

[OneDecentLester]

The issue IMO yesterday in the first half was that our wingers Dobra and Markanday were constantly coming to feet rather than stretching Walsall and running off the ball to get in behind. The knock on effect of this, was that Walsall were able to press us high and suffocate us in possession with their press/physicality, which meant our full backs had to stay back more often because of the constant turn over where they were having to run backwards to defend rather than able to push on and attack. That?s where I think Cook got it wrong, because you have to have at least one forward player on the pitch who wants to run in behind and stretch a team like Walsall for it to open up and a bit and give us the space to play higher up, e.g a Colclough or a Berry.

Was no surprise to me in the slightest2 that as soon as Cook made them changes, we looked 10x more threatening as Walsall had no choice but to drop off because they were scared stiff of either Coco or Berry running behind them, which allowed us to get a foothold and sustained pressure before the equaliser.

A front 4 of Markanday, Banks, Grigg and Dobra that started yeaterday would be more suited to a team in a low block where you need intricate passing & quality to break them down.

[Cartman]

Bonnyman, on 06 October 2024 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yet had to go too a three yesterday as getting totally dominated

We went to a three yesterday to go ultra attacking to get a point, went back to a four after the three left us woefully exposed to conceding another!

[Cartman]

dim view, on 06 October 2024 - 02:29 PM, said:

For me, the biggest question about our set up yesterday was how come our fullbacks were stopped from raiding down their wings. Not a single example comes to mind and yet that tactic is the whole basis of our attacking theory. If that thrives, it's secondary who is leading the line.

Any suggestions?

We had one time in the first half where Araujo played a great ball and Gordon got behind their full back, but on the whole Walsall did a great job of nullifying our wing play until they had to deal with Colclough and Markandy on one flank and Berry and Dobra on the other once we?d gone to the super attacking 3-6-1 formation!

[dim view]

OneDecentLester, on 06 October 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

A front 4 of Markanday, Banks, Grigg and Dobra that started yeaterday would be more suited to a team in a low block where you need intricate passing & quality to break them down.

In my opinion it's becoming increasingly clear that our famous '3' is not a 'perm any 3 from 6'. It is strongest when Colclough and Mandeville start. We have to wait for Mandeville at the moment 'cos he's our best RB until one of our promising RBs makes the transition to L2 fitness.

[HaslandBlue58]

Can one of you technicians out there explain why we don't have players forward as an outlet when we have conceded a corner?When playing as a lad,yes a very long time ago,we always had one if not two players near the halfway line.Is this not considered the way now?

[JonB]

Most teams seem to have everyone back these days. No idea why.

[HaslandBlue58]

JonB, on 06 October 2024 - 08:15 PM, said:

Most teams seem to have everyone back these days. No idea why.

Not great on modern tactics,but it is evident how difficult it is to clear lines and take the pressure off without the outlet.One Walsall corner I noted about eight attacks before we had hold of the ball, don't understand the thinking personally.

[Westbars Spireite]

dim view, on 06 October 2024 - 04:02 PM, said:

In my opinion it's becoming increasingly clear that our famous '3' is not a 'perm any 3 from 6'. It is strongest when Colclough and Mandeville start. We have to wait for Mandeville at the moment 'cos he's our best RB until one of our promising RBs makes the transition to L2 fitness.

He's better than them there if they're not fit, but otherwise it's not a great option really. He's really good at tackling but too often he has to as they find space to get round him in the first place.

[jack bauer]

HaslandBlue58, on 06 October 2024 - 08:15 PM, said:

Can one of you technicians out there explain why we don't have players forward as an outlet when we have conceded a corner?When playing as a lad,yes a very long time ago,we always had one if not two players near the halfway line.Is this not considered the way now?

for me, i'd leave dobra up, i can't see that he's going to win any kind of aerial duel and get a quick ball out to him he has the feet to do it on his own, but i dunno, there has to be a reason why it doesn't happen

[sophocles]

HaslandBlue58, on 06 October 2024 - 08:15 PM, said:

Can one of you technicians out there explain why we don't have players forward as an outlet when we have conceded a corner?When playing as a lad,yes a very long time ago,we always had one if not two players near the halfway line.Is this not considered the way now?

I've been asking that question since the start of the season, and not had an answer yet. If we left Dobra and Grigg up near halfway it would remove at least two opposition players from our penalty area because they would need to stay with them. There would then be a chance that a quick clearance could lead to us breaking away, and it would prevent the recurring scenario where we struggle to get out of our own area.

This post has been edited by sophocles: 06 October 2024 - 09:57 PM

[h again]

It's hardly saying anything new that we struggle against teams who press hard on the player with the ball. After all it's what brought us success last season, and in this league they're fitter and better at it, which is hard in particular on midfielders who don't get a second. It's a good tactic, but we find it harder because we play close inter-passing which makes the middle of the field a crowded place where 'owt can happen, and we know what happens when we lose the ball in midfield. Better to keep things mere open by using the wings more, which is where the two or three players needed for the heavy press can't all go. It's what Cookie did so effectively, but I'd like to see done more, especially with the talent we've got playing wide.
The tight inter-passing is lovely to watch, but needs players who can handle very close attention from the opposition, because losing the ball in midfield going forward is fatal.

[lindave]

HaslandBlue58, on 06 October 2024 - 08:15 PM, said:

Can one of you technicians out there explain why we don't have players forward as an outlet when we have conceded a corner?When playing as a lad,yes a very long time ago,we always had one if not two players near the halfway line.Is this not considered the way now?

We say it every game, leave Dobra up front to make the opposition leave 2 men back, especially if we are losing.

[OneDecentLester]

I think one reason why teams bring everyone back for corners now is that more players back = less space for people to find in the box to get a free run at a header. Also more bodies in the way should it drop to an attacker to get a block in, even if it?s an attacker blocking their own teams shot.

Have we conceded from a corner yet this season?

This post has been edited by OneDecentLester: 07 October 2024 - 05:48 PM

[spireitetoo]

I doubt they could lift their game much more from satdi, we on the other hand know we can lift our game along way from where we were then, so on that scenario it was a very good point, and certainly 1 gained, rather than 2 dropped, hopefully we find the team soon that can deliver the results (especially at home) that we know they're capable of.

This post has been edited by spireitetoo: 07 October 2024 - 07:33 PM

[HaslandBlue58]

spireitetoo, on 07 October 2024 - 07:32 PM, said:

I doubt they could lift their game much more from satdi, we on the other hand know we can lift our game along way from where we were then, so on that scenario it was a very good point, and certainly 1 gained, rather than 2 dropped, hopefully we find the team soon that can deliver the results (especially at home) that we know they're capable of.

Very positive and sensible overview which most regulars will be in total agreement with,and hopefully the next step will be an improved points return at home.