[dart in the crossbar]

 moondog, on 13 May 2023 - 09:39 PM, said:

A video clip has been sent to me that ought to appear on the highlights showing Slocombe kicking a goal kick twice, the second touch denying a goalscoring opportunity. Ref gave the free kick but didn't sanction the keeper as per the rule

As far as I can see, the FA Law Section 16 on goal kicks is limited to 'If, after the ball is in play, the kicker touches the ball again before it has touched another player an indirect free kick is awarded'

There's no mention of cards that I can see.

[clarevoyant.]

 JonB, on 14 May 2023 - 07:54 PM, said:

Was telling my brother about the goal kick incident last night, he’s since been speaking to a local ref he bumped into who apparently said the red card for denying the goal scoring incident when kicking it twice isn’t due to come into force until next season.

I’ve no idea about the rule either way to be honest!!

There's a clip on twitter showing a similar (same)incident with the correct brandishing of red card. This clip as since been used in refs training seminars. Being better than me on twitter you may be able to locate it, Roma women being one of the teams.
It's not an offence you see often.

[clarevoyant.]

 PontePete, on 14 May 2023 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yep having seen the video he should have been off, no 2 ways about it

Exactly but why didn't he give it?

There's no reasonable logic apart from bottled it, forgot about the training, brain freeze, who knows, but no doubt the excuse on reflection will be on the lines of a standard get out clause 'that he or colleagues weren't in a position to fairly judge and didnt won't to guess.

[JonB]

 clarevoyant., on 14 May 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

There's a clip on twitter showing a similar (same)incident with the correct brandishing of red card. This clip as since been used in refs training seminars. Being better than me on twitter you may be able to locate it, Roma women being one of the teams.
It's not an offence you see often.

Yep seen it since my previous post but can’t find it again now.

[Bonnyman]

Im not really sure why we are bleating so much over decisions,cant see anything about our blatent cheating or feigning of injury or rolling around like shot,their keeper commited a foul we got a penalty and scored from it,wasnt as though Dallas was just going to roll it in.Maybe a case for a booking for the indirect free kick but im not sure,our players did not really react,his second touch did not take it off one of our forwards the only decision i saw that was terrible was the ball being a yard out of play when keeper caught it.

This post has been edited by Bonnyman: 15 May 2023 - 04:15 AM

[JonB]

After he messes up the goal kick the only player with 10yds of the ball who can touch it next is Dallas who by virtue of that is one on one with the keeper so it’s a clear goal scoring chance.

[rodney]

 Bonnyman, on 15 May 2023 - 04:14 AM, said:

Im not really sure why we are bleating so much over decisions,cant see anything about our blatent cheating or feigning of injury or rolling around like shot,their keeper commited a foul we got a penalty and scored from it,wasnt as though Dallas was just going to roll it in.Maybe a case for a booking for the indirect free kick but im not sure,our players did not really react,his second touch did not take it off one of our forwards the only decision i saw that was terrible was the ball being a yard out of play when keeper caught it.

Could you not see Dallas a couple of yards from the ball when he kicked it again?! Obviously doesn’t change the result but in the big games the officials need to get the big decisions correct.

[60s 70s Spireite]

 JonB, on 15 May 2023 - 05:52 AM, said:

After he messes up the goal kick the only player with 10yds of the ball who can touch it next is Dallas who by virtue of that is one on one with the keeper so it’s a clear goal scoring chance.

I’ve looked at the rules on the IFAB site, and although it’s difficult to get a definitive answer, from what I can see it’s only where a direct free kick is conceded can it also be deemed a DOGSO (denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity).

Then for the penalty, the double jeopardy rule applies, the award of a penalty is deemed sufficient punishment unless there was no attempt to play the ball - eg. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.

[rodney]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 15 May 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

I’ve looked at the rules on the IFAB site, and although it’s difficult to get a definitive answer, from what I can see it’s only where a direct free kick is conceded can it also be deemed a DOGSO (denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity).

Then for the penalty, the double jeopardy rule applies, the award of a penalty is deemed sufficient punishment unless there was no attempt to play the ball - eg. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.

Agree on both in terms of reds, but both are yellow cards.

[60s 70s Spireite]

 rodney, on 15 May 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

Agree on both in terms of reds, but both are yellow cards.

Agreed. I meant to put that.

[JonB]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 15 May 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

I’ve looked at the rules on the IFAB site, and although it’s difficult to get a definitive answer, from what I can see it’s only where a direct free kick is conceded can it also be deemed a DOGSO (denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity).

Then for the penalty, the double jeopardy rule applies, the award of a penalty is deemed sufficient punishment unless there was no attempt to play the ball - eg. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.

I knew it wasnt a red for the pen although they normally book them. I just wasnt sure on the goal kick one as its such a strange issue but it feels as though it should be some sort of punishment on top of the indirect free kick. Its blatant foul play to stop Dallas getting the ball when the keeper isnt allowed to touch it again and there isnt another County player anywhere near that could influence play after that so its effectively stopping a one on one with the keeper. If it was a defender pulling them down as they run through to a one on one with the keeper then you would think the ref is going to show a red card.

As mentioned in another post of mine a local ref has told my brother the red card rule for this actual issue doesnt come in until next season however as someone else mentions there is a post on twitter with a link to a video of the same incident in an Italian womens league game where the ref then sends the keeper off.

This post has been edited by JonB: 15 May 2023 - 07:14 AM

[clarevoyant.]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 15 May 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

I’ve looked at the rules on the IFAB site, and although it’s difficult to get a definitive answer, from what I can see it’s only where a direct free kick is conceded can it also be deemed a DOGSO (denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity).

Then for the penalty, the double jeopardy rule applies, the award of a penalty is deemed sufficient punishment unless there was no attempt to play the ball - eg. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.

In answer to your 1st para the directive in the attachment posted by Moondog post #1 couldn't be more clearer for this scenario an award of a indirect free kick and red card for the offender. Now you may not agree with the rules but they are the rules and we should have been playing against 10 men for 80+ minutes if the rules had been applied correctly.

The video mentioned by another poster as apparently been used in refs training courses so should, that's should have been seen by our man on Saturday and the incident duly actioned accordingly

[JonB]

 clarevoyant., on 15 May 2023 - 07:52 AM, said:

In answer to your 1st para the directive in the attachment posted by Moondog post #1 couldn't be more clearer for this scenario an award of a indirect free kick and red card for the offender. Now you may not agree with the rules but they are the rules and we should have been playing against 10 men for 80+ minutes if the rules had been applied correctly.

The video mentioned by another poster as apparently been used in refs training courses so should, that's should have been seen by our man on Saturday and the incident duly actioned accordingly

In fairness to 60s/70s he's right in that the current IFAB rules for the same section of stuff (Law 16 Section 2) it doesnt make any reference to the bit in the opening post.

https://www.thefa.co...-goal-kick.ashx

[JonB]

As an addition found this from 2020 in the dutch league :-
https://www.dutchref...fter-a-restart/

[dim view]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 15 May 2023 - 06:55 AM, said:

Agreed. I meant to put that.

What's crystal clear is that Slocombe didn't know the rule. It seems a long time since the kick just had to be retaken after a scuff.

[Sammy Spireite]

 Mr_Pleasant, on 14 May 2023 - 08:54 AM, said:

Assistant ref was nowhere near up with the play on the corner, though it didn't even look that marginal.

And I agree. Once we got an early penalty the ref seemed reluctant to give us the same decisions that he gave to them.

I think it is harsh to criticise the Lino on that occasion, when king had the ball he was level with the last man (where he should be during live play) and to expect him to keep up with the ball when king shot at what 50/60 mph is a bit far fetched!

The ball looked to be over the line from behind the goal, but to the lino much lower down, running at full pelt, from the opposite side I'm not so sure. He did gesture to the ref as if to say 'I'm not sure' so you can't expect him to guess.

[DIFH]

 JonB, on 13 May 2023 - 11:23 PM, said:

It was but the Linesman was in no position to give it and just did nowt. Seemed to be a couple of very hefty challenges, one on Clements first half, that weren’t even given.

Manderville was targeted by a few of their players and ultimately that contributed to him being subbed.

[moondog]

 moondog, on 13 May 2023 - 09:39 PM, said:

A video clip has been sent to me that ought to appear on the highlights showing Slocombe kicking a goal kick twice, the second touch denying a goalscoring opportunity. Ref gave the free kick but didn't sanction the keeper as per the rule

Footage here

https://twitter.com/...alG9MxMwrQ&s=08

[clarevoyant.]

 Sammy Spireite, on 15 May 2023 - 08:21 AM, said:

I think it is harsh to criticise the Lino on that occasion, when king had the ball he was level with the last man (where he should be during live play) and to expect him to keep up with the ball when king shot at what 50/60 mph is a bit far fetched!

The ball looked to be over the line from behind the goal, but to the lino much lower down, running at full pelt, from the opposite side I'm not so sure. He did gesture to the ref as if to say 'I'm not sure' so you can't expect him to guess.

Absolutely. Not much he could have done. Maybe steadied himself and concentrated on the situation rather than sprinting and thus 'blurring" his perspective.

It'll have to be put down to that rare commodity!!! bad luck on our part.

[Goku]

Would be incredible if we could go a few games without being shafted by a ref.