[isleaiw1]

Misnomer, on 22 March 2020 - 07:48 PM, said:

Thought wrong then..

Understand the same circumstances, yes you should. You have a very narrow view of it. They are unemployed due to zero fault of their own. It is not down to incorrectly running their businesses, behaviour, poor performance or other; which is why you'd get the sack..so why aren't they being helped! That plumber you might require, that mechanic, electrician, beautician, chiropractor, etc; that ends up in a financial mess, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN,who possibly won't exist after this situation has passed; are you going to think the same then?

Well I am under consultation so might not have a job soon, through no fault of my own. So if I lose my job I will get unemployment benefit, regardless of what I earn now. Why should the self employed be treated differently? don't get me wrong, I'd love to get 80% of my earnings (average) over the last couple of years through being made redundant for no fault of my own but I'm pretty sure lots of people (including me) would think that a bad use of public money.

My company have lost £250m in revenue per annum, pro rata (I say my company but sadly I dont own it, just an employee..), should the public purse cover that? after all shareholders have lost out to a great degree THROUGH NO FAULT OF THERE OWN....

Where do you draw the line!

[Wooden Spoon]

frearsghost said:

1584904546[/url]' post='1512288']
It was. Death is the only regular Labour commentator on here who doesn't represent the worst of Corbyn's Labour and has a level enough head to describe the broader, unbiased picture. The Labour Party needs people like him. He should join them.

I really don’t think I’d be welcome in the current climate. I also feel my contributions are better served as a trade union rep rather than as a political party member. I’ve saved people from the sack. He kept his job, continued to pay his mortgage and feed his family. A worthwhile contribution as an individual. As an individual in a membership of many many thousands my contributions would have very little impact.





I’ll leave that to those who, for whatever reason, seek power. I’m not after power or influence.

[Misnomer]

isleaiw1, on 22 March 2020 - 09:22 PM, said:

Well I am under consultation so might not have a job soon, through no fault of my own. So if I lose my job I will get unemployment benefit, regardless of what I earn now. Why should the self employed be treated differently? don't get me wrong, I'd love to get 80% of my earnings (average) over the last couple of years through being made redundant for no fault of my own but I'm pretty sure lots of people (including me) would think that a bad use of public money.

My company have lost £250m in revenue per annum, pro rata (I say my company but sadly I dont own it, just an employee..), should the public purse cover that? after all shareholders have lost out to a great degree THROUGH NO FAULT OF THERE OWN....

Where do you draw the line!

But..we are going to witness unemployment on an unprecedented level. The 'scroungers' tag will be never greater, the benefits bill never higher.

How many people are actually shareholders or have such excessive wealth to become one? The comparison is null and void.

It's 80% average, up to a maximum of £2500.00.

[Wooden Spoon]

Misnomer said:

1584915987[/url]' post='1512322']
But..we are going to witness unemployment on an unprecedented level. The 'scroungers' tag will be never greater, the benefits bill never higher.

How many people are actually shareholders or have such excessive wealth to become one? The comparison is null and void.

It's 80% average, up to a maximum of £2500.00.

Up to £2500 a month, seems to me to be protecting the most vulnerable then

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

frearsghost, on 22 March 2020 - 07:15 PM, said:

It was. Death is the only regular Labour commentator on here who doesn't represent the worst of Corbyn's Labour and has a level enough head to describe the broader, unbiased picture. The Labour Party needs people like him. He should join them.

So do I 'represent the worst of Corbyn's Labour', John?

Even though I've repeatedly expressed my opposition to him and his cult like following?

Infact as a party member I'm actually doing something to oust them.

Don't forget Corbyn's a lifelong Brexiter, too (though for different reasons to many more recent converts, of course).

Good to see you being 'unbiased' and not quoting politics on a corona thread, though.

But anyway, back to topic(ish). I'm finding myself in agreement with many of the most rabid Brexiters in terms of the proposed Corona bill. Yup, if folk are gonna behave like cretins much of it's probably needed - but with a two year timespan?!

I say it should be implemented yet with a monthly review.

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 23 March 2020 - 06:42 AM

[frearsghost]

[quote name='The Earl of Chesterfield' timestamp='1584945313' post='1512336']
So do I 'represent the worst of Corbyn's Labour', John?

Even though I've repeatedly expressed my opposition to him and his cult like following?

Infact as a party member I'm actually doing something to oust them.

Don't forget Corbyn's a lifelong Brexiter, too (though for different reasons to many more recent converts, of course).

Good to see you being 'unbiased' and not quoting politics on a corona thread, though.

But anyway, back to topic(ish). I'm finding myself in agreement with many of the most rabid Brexiters in terms of the proposed Corona bill. Yup, if folk are gonna behave like cretins much of it's probably needed - but with a two year timespan?!

I say it should be implemented yet with a monthly review.
[/quo

No Chris but some of you posts would be more helpful for the Labour Party if you discussed the issues without the now, almost daily, blogs excoriating of the characters and personalities of Tory politicians. Terms like 'Brexit extremists' is not the sort of language middle Britain and thousands of red wall voters wants to hear if Labour is to have any hope of getting into power. That ship has sailed.

In my opinion of course. Just trying to helpful.

[frearsghost]

As for the Coronavirus Virus, like many others, I'm susceptible to catching it despite self-isolating. My wife's school is one remaining open for those children whose parents are on the front line. From this morning, there are just forty children present. Although she assures me parents will not be allowed through the school gates, she and her staff will mix with these children who, of course, have had close contact with parents on the front line. So, at the end of each day, she comes home, having no idea if she's caught the virus or not but if she does it's likely I will catch it too. Not a nice thought but not much I can do about it.

Of course tens of thousands are in the same boat but I was hoping her school would have closed and we could have drawn up the drawbridge and isolated together. C'est la vie.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Quaker, on 23 March 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't say you're the worst but you are most definitely hard line, Chris. You do come across very strongly as politicising the current mess we are all in. I firmly believe now isn't the time for political oneupmanship. I not a fan of Johnson by any stretch but he is, as we all are, on uncharted ground. There is no policy and no terms of reference, the country is flying by the seat of its pants, desperately trying to learn lessons from countries who are in a worse position. I doubt anyone is reading what seems like your force fed MSN news links, I suspect most people are more concerned with keeping loved ones safe than Tory bashing at every opportunity.

Don't take this the wrong way, you are still entitled to post what you want and express your opinion, I am just saying how I feel about your approach to all this.

No problem, Mark.

We're all friends who can disagree in a civilised manner.

But this is a thread discussing an issue. Infact the one and only real issue of our time (how irrelevant the whole CFC/Carson and Co thing seems right now). Clearly some are reading and contributing to it - probably because they, like me, are relying on social media as an outlet during the current shutdowns. Or not. Or half-and-half. Or summat else.

And that's kinda the point. Of course this has a political aspect. Of course we have every right to question those overseeing the crisis. Of course we can narrate and compare their actions with those of other governments.

Of course their 'previous' has to be taken into account, too.

Or has adult democratic debate become another victim of the virus...

[Search & Destroy]

Quaker, on 23 March 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't say you're the worst but you are most definitely hard line, Chris. You do come across very strongly as politicising the current mess we are all in. I firmly believe now isn't the time for political oneupmanship. I not a fan of Johnson by any stretch but he is, as we all are, on uncharted ground. There is no policy and no terms of reference, the country is flying by the seat of its pants, desperately trying to learn lessons from countries who are in a worse position. I doubt anyone is reading what seems like your force fed MSN news links, I suspect most people are more concerned with keeping loved ones safe than Tory bashing at every opportunity.

Don't take this the wrong way, you are still entitled to post what you want and express your opinion, I am just saying how I feel about your approach to all this.

His first post was to politicise the crisis and he hasn’t stopped since unfortunately

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 23 March 2020 - 01:30 PM, said:

His first post was to politicise the crisis and he hasn’t stopped since unfortunately

From the bloke who told us 'it’d almost be worth 50000 deaths' just to stop Liverpool winning the title. Then admitted feeling racist towards the Chinese.

Yet I'm somehow 'low' for highlighting facts.

And we're still waiting for you to condemn Trump's deranged rants - I'm hearing today he's tweeting about re-opening the US economy no matter how many deaths it means - or explain how a government that declared their policies meant the country was well prepared wasn't 'politicising' the crisis.

Then why personalise it if you're so concerned with the topic's integrity?

Nah pal, piety and hypocrisy never walk hand in hand...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 23 March 2020 - 02:02 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Quaker, on 23 March 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

There are no definitive answers, Chris.

I just feel, personally, that Tory bashing (or Labour bashing) doesn't help. I guarantee that the government will make mistakes, I would say that whoever was in charge. Some of their mistakes will be howlers but I can appreciate there is no script. I think we are not being as quick to respond as I would like us to be but I also think the government are being advised on what to do and when and are acting upon it. How many secret kids Johnson has is irrelevant. and so are many thing now irrelevant.

I secretly think there are Labour hardliners wanting the Tories to fail, opening the door for an early election in the hope they have caused enough damage for a Labour landslide. . Even Toby is supporting the government because he feels in hard times like we currently have, we absolutely need to pull together irrespective of political alignment.

If we are going to criticise every decision or none decision then offer a better alternative based on the same facts and information the politicians have.

The goal posts are moving hourly, they have their work cut out for them.

Keep safe and keep your family safe, youth.

If anyone on the left adopted the same disgusting 'if a few pensioners die then so be it' attitude alleged of Cummins - and as mentioned above attributed to Trump in today's tweets - then they deserve exactly the same condemnation.

Depends what you mean by 'pulling together', though. My family are adopting all the advice advocated by government (infact we were whilst Johnson Snr was still boasting pub visits). My family have refused to shop for more or more often. My family are isolating themselves as much as possible. And I can't emphasise this strongly enough - I WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO GET THIS RIGHT BECAUSE THE LIVES OF MY AND EVERYONE ELSE'S FAMILY DEPENDS UPON IT!

So I think we're pulling in exactly the same direction as everyone else doing the right thing.

However this is one thread on one forum of one non-league football club. A place where those of us sitting out the crisis in a responsible manner can off-load. An environment where the worst that can happen is a few little red marks.

But anyway, all the very, very best to you and your family too, Mark. For what it's worth I've not mentioned how many kids Johnson's got on this or the other CV19 thread. Though I do look forward to a time when such petty stuff becomes much more important again...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 23 March 2020 - 02:31 PM

[spireiterob]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 23 March 2020 - 01:27 PM, said:

No problem, Mark.

We're all friends who can disagree in a civilised manner.

But this is a thread discussing an issue. Infact the one and only real issue of our time (how irrelevant the whole CFC/Carson and Co thing seems right now). Clearly some are reading and contributing to it - probably because they, like me, are relying on social media as an outlet during the current shutdowns. Or not. Or half-and-half. Or summat else.

And that's kinda the point. Of course this has a political aspect. Of course we have every right to question those overseeing the crisis. Of course we can narrate and compare their actions with those of other governments.

Of course their 'previous' has to be taken into account, too.

Or has adult democratic debate become another victim of the virus...

Agreed, the Mrs is a nurse who has been expected to work with insufficient PPE - 'on order' because this Government was unprepared.

Up until 2 days ago she did this whilst having to pay to park at the hospital she works at! (I don't know who introduced these charges but they are a disgrace nonetheless)

Half way through her university Nursing course this Government pulled the Nursing bursery and introduced Tuition fees for nursing courses ..which has no doubt contributed to the Nursing shortage that will now no doubt cost lives.

In fact the year after this was introduced the applications to that course dropped by 100%.

We have a lack of Hospital beds, because of years of unnecessary and political motivated austerity by this Government. In which i might add the national debt has tripled.

“Austerity is the idea that the 2008 financial crash was caused by Wolverhampton having too many libraries." - Alexei Sayle

We have insufficient Ventilators, because this Government was unprepared and did not order enough. I think read somewhere that Germany had 20,000 more than us.

The Government did not act quickly enough towards social distancing, because Dominic Cummings thought he knew better and that a 'herd mentality' would sort this out...even “if some pensioners die, too bad”.
This against medical advice by people who actually know what they are talking about

"Britain has had enough of experts" - Michael Gove. This govenment.

Thankfully they have introduced measures to pay people, but the fact that people are surprised they actually will is amazing. I would expect every developed country in the world would do the same.

And still nothing on self employed?

Many more people will unfortunately and tragically die because of the actions of this Government. I am incredibly concerned with keeping loved ones safe but unfortunately from experience I cannot not Tory bash because they have put so many more in danger that needs be and it makes me very angry. They are firefighting because of the unpreparedness caused by years of their actions. Yes we all need to pull together but as you say of course we have every right to question those overseeing the crisis and yes i want them to get it right!

This post has been edited by spireiterob: 23 March 2020 - 02:34 PM

[Benno Spire]

This problem is certainly bringing out the scum.

NHS staff now being told not to wear their NHS badges in public as there has been a number of NHS staff mugged in London for their badges so the muggers can claim NHS freebies and join NHS queue using the stolen badges.

[calvin plummers socks]

Benno Spire, on 23 March 2020 - 02:43 PM, said:

This problem is certainly bringing out the scum.

NHS staff now being told not to wear their NHS badges in public as there has been a number of NHS staff mugged in London for their badges so the muggers can claim NHS freebies and join NHS queue using the stolen badges.

Although this has been shown as fake news

[Benno Spire]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 March 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

Although this has been shown as fake news

I hope so.

[Search & Destroy]

Benno Spire, on 23 March 2020 - 02:43 PM, said:

This problem is certainly bringing out the scum.

NHS staff now being told not to wear their NHS badges in public as there has been a number of NHS staff mugged in London for their badges so the muggers can claim NHS freebies and join NHS queue using the stolen badges.

As if

[isleaiw1]

Misnomer, on 22 March 2020 - 10:26 PM, said:

But..we are going to witness unemployment on an unprecedented level. The 'scroungers' tag will be never greater, the benefits bill never higher.

How many people are actually shareholders or have such excessive wealth to become one? The comparison is null and void.

It's 80% average, up to a maximum of £2500.00.

There are people out there saying that the self employed should get 80% of their average earnings over the last two years, not mentioning a cap.
Shareholders - who are the biggest shareholders? Institutional investors representing pension funds and the like, you know belonging to ordinary workers who arent rich. So we are all shareholders and if you are due to retire in next couple of years this could hit your finances very hard indeed.

I know the rules - we are paying the top up so all staff get 80% of their normal wage in the short term if not working - and 100% if they are. Except senior managers who are working and getting 80%.

[isleaiw1]

spireiterob, on 23 March 2020 - 02:29 PM, said:

Agreed, the Mrs is a nurse who has been expected to work with insufficient PPE - 'on order' because this Government was unprepared.

Up until 2 days ago she did this whilst having to pay to park at the hospital she works at! (I don't know who introduced these charges but they are a disgrace nonetheless)

Half way through her university Nursing course this Government pulled the Nursing bursery and introduced Tuition fees for nursing courses ..which has no doubt contributed to the Nursing shortage that will now no doubt cost lives.

In fact the year after this was introduced the applications to that course dropped by 100%.

We have a lack of Hospital beds, because of years of unnecessary and political motivated austerity by this Government. In which i might add the national debt has tripled.

“Austerity is the idea that the 2008 financial crash was caused by Wolverhampton having too many libraries." - Alexei Sayle

We have insufficient Ventilators, because this Government was unprepared and did not order enough. I think read somewhere that Germany had 20,000 more than us.

The Government did not act quickly enough towards social distancing, because Dominic Cummings thought he knew better and that a 'herd mentality' would sort this out...even “if some pensioners die, too bad”.
This against medical advice by people who actually know what they are talking about

"Britain has had enough of experts" - Michael Gove. This govenment.

Thankfully they have introduced measures to pay people, but the fact that people are surprised they actually will is amazing. I would expect every developed country in the world would do the same.

And still nothing on self employed?

Many more people will unfortunately and tragically die because of the actions of this Government. I am incredibly concerned with keeping loved ones safe but unfortunately from experience I cannot not Tory bash because they have put so many more in danger that needs be and it makes me very angry. They are firefighting because of the unpreparedness caused by years of their actions. Yes we all need to pull together but as you say of course we have every right to question those overseeing the crisis and yes i want them to get it right!

But if we are going back to criticise austerity then we should criticise the causes of it and Blair and Brown p***ing money up the wall in the boom years is a part of that, along with the banking crisis which I think had its roots in the US sub prime market.

I know some think we could just go on spending and borrowing - its not a great model and when we have to pay for the pledges being made now it will be a really tough time.

The national debt has tripled as a result of spending pledges caused by labour actions as well - you complain of austerity but then talk about debt. Where would it be if they hadnt tried to save some money?

Part of the problem isnt spending - its receipts. If more people put more in then the govt could spend more - whether that is google, amazon, your local plumber who gives you a cash rate to not trouble the tax man, the guy who fixes your car for cash, the drug dealer and the prostitute who presumably dont declare their illegal earnings - or maybe its just people not being bothered pushing on to do a bit more, progress a bit more because the state helps out.

I dont agree with the nursing decision - I assume it was repayable if you did the course but then didnt stay in the NHS long enough? Although I think tuition fees are a way of adding a graduate tax, shame it isnt levied on those who go to uni for a **** up, learn nothing and get a job they could have got without a degree and just have three years of fun....

As for parking charges at hospitals, the drivers of that are the selfish tw*ts who parked all day in hospital car parks to save having to park in town. The "I'm alright Jack" brigade that probably have a years supply of bog rolls and are in the queue before the emergency services shopping hour has started!

Ultimately at the root of many issues are personal choices and putting the individual above state and others. No politician will change that I am afraid...