[Wooden Spoon]

You could also say that the figures only include those died in hospitals, how many are dying or have passed away at home, or in care homes? What’s the real figure?

[Westbars Spireite]

Benno Spire, on 13 April 2020 - 04:44 PM, said:

I was due to go to Lanzarote on 25 March booked through on the beach which was quite rightly cancelled. I received a refund a few days ago for half the amount and info on their website says a second refund will be sent when they get refunded by the airline, in this case Ryanair. It’s virtually impossible to make any contact.A family member was due to go on holiday early June and told it was cancelled only then to be told they still had to make their final due holiday payment otherwise they were not entitled to a refund.I am also getting emails from on the beach and Ryanair wanting me to book another holiday, not a chance at the moment, “Argate” is looking good this year.

I've rarely been glad to be too poor for a holiday abroad but I am this year.

[Westbars Spireite]

Quaker, on 13 April 2020 - 05:10 PM, said:

Are you saying that’s a bad thing?

Can't believe you've blocked me on Twitter. I was most upset.

[Search & Destroy]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 13 April 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

I trust your word, Ian.

I trust the ability of our service personnel to erect a temporary hospital and our retired medical staff to populate it, too.

And for all their duplicity and deceit I'd like to think even this government wouldn't stoop so low as to waste so much time and resources on a PR stunt.

But given the spiralling infection rate and us having the highest daily death rate in Europe the idea of such a high profile facility being barely used just seems, well, strange, that's all.

In fact as strange as the eight or so thousand ventilators deemed so utterly insufficient a couple of weeks ago now somehow meeting our needs...

There’s enough NHS whistleblowers if it’s a lie

[joe]

isleaiw1, on 13 April 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

OK so we were asked to provide hotel facilities for the staff there as and when they ran out of rooms at the more local hotels. We were on standby for days (and technically still are) so get to hear expectations from the bodies that planned it and manage it.... They went to a whole lot of trouble to communicate with lots of businesses for a publicity stunt...

Staffing was a challenge but that is why ex nurses and docs were being called back... along with military equivalents if needed.

But dont let facts get in the way of a good post...

I'd like to see figures of all these doctors and nurses that have volunteered and how many have intensive care experience. Intensive care is not just another medical discipline, it is generally run by anaesthetists who are the cream of the medical profession. Similarly it is a long time before an ordinary nurse is trained up to be an intensive care nurse. Are the number of recalled medics as large as the number isolating or ill with the virus. I'd like some actual thought into what is going on and why we are so short of nurses in the first place not just nonsense pumped out to defend the Tories

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 13 April 2020 - 07:35 PM, said:

There’s enough NHS whistleblowers if it’s a lie

Yeah, that's kinda my thought, too.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

DEATH, on 13 April 2020 - 06:51 PM, said:

You could also say that the figures only include those died in hospitals, how many are dying or have passed away at home, or in care homes? What’s the real figure?

Again, my thoughts too.

[Search & Destroy]

https://www.msn.com/...aZ8s?li=BBoPWjQ

True toll in Wuhan?

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 14 April 2020 - 07:26 AM

[azul]

Britain missed three opportunities to be part of an EU scheme to bulk-buy masks, gowns and gloves and has been absent from key talks about future purchases,

https://www.theguard...to-bulk-buy-ppe

So if there is a shortage of PPE, we know who to blame - Johnson and his cronies

Dogma before the welfare of front line workers?

[Goku]

azul, on 14 April 2020 - 07:28 AM, said:

Britain missed three opportunities to be part of an EU scheme to bulk-buy masks, gowns and gloves and has been absent from key talks about future purchases,

https://www.theguard...to-bulk-buy-ppe

So if there is a shortage of PPE, we know who to blame - Johnson and his cronies

Dogma before the welfare of front line workers?

Oh dear oh dear. Well thank God we’re not politicising this because then the Government might have to be held to account!

[Search & Destroy]

The whole of Europe are struggling with PPE, your posts suggest that if we’d have joined this joint enterprise then we’d have plenty

France Italy and Spain the same situation as us, that’s why France tried to impound our stuff, imagine if we had pulled that stunt

https://www.google.c...re-workers/amp/

https://www.google.c...irus-masks/amp/

Yes we got it back the end but the suggestion that the PPE shortage is down to not joining this EU task force is far fetched

https://abc14news.co...o-uk-hospitals/

Wonder why this wasn’t in the Guardian?

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 14 April 2020 - 07:49 AM

[Westbars Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 14 April 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:

Again, my thoughts too.

And on flip side, how many were already so seriously ill with unrelated conditions that their life was already in grave danger?

[azul]

Search and Destroy, on 14 April 2020 - 07:44 AM, said:

The whole of Europe are struggling with PPE, your posts suggest that if we’d have joined this joint enterprise then we’d have plenty

The report stated the first attempt of EU procurement floundered in February due to lack of interest - would it have if one of the bigger economies had joined in? However they tried again and this time....

European doctors and nurses are preparing to receive the first of €1.5bn (£1.3bn) worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) within days or a maximum of two weeks through a joint procurement scheme involving 25 countries and eight companies, according to internal EU documents.

The rest of your post is trying to deflect

This post has been edited by azul: 14 April 2020 - 07:56 AM

[Search & Destroy]

azul, on 14 April 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

The report stated the first attempt of EU procurement floundered in February due to lack of interest - would it have if one of the bigger economies had joined in? However they tried again and this time....

European doctors and nurses are preparing to receive the first of €1.5bn (£1.3bn) worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) within days or a maximum of two weeks through a joint procurement scheme involving 25 countries and eight companies, according to internal EU documents.

The rest of your post is trying to deflect

https://www.google.c...p/idUSKBN21C1JC

So Europe have plenty then, OK

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 14 April 2020 - 08:06 AM

[Search & Destroy]

Sounds to me like another few levels of unwanted bureaucratic delay

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 14 April 2020 - 07:44 AM, said:

The whole of Europe are struggling with PPE, your posts suggest that if we’d have joined this joint enterprise then we’d have plenty

France Italy and Spain the same situation as us, that’s why France tried to impound our stuff, imagine if we had pulled that stunt

https://www.google.c...re-workers/amp/

Okay, if you're gonna quote France, I see Macron's acknowledged and apologised for shortcomings in his government's approach.

Contrast that with what I've just witnessed from Theresa Koffy who's broken every record in brazen, bare faced evasion.

Time after time after time she was asked if her government had made mistakes, with facts and real life references quoted, only to completely ignore the questions and trot out a mindless mantra of denial.

Dodged an answer on why frontline staff STILL lack essential PPE. Dodged an answer why only hospital deaths are being reported in the daily figures. Dodged an answer why her government lagged so far behind others in testing and locking down.

And completely dodged an answer why Cheltenham took place on the same day the WHO declared a worldwide pandemic.

A performance one of your Chinese targets would've been proud of.

I'm sure you're right about under reporting by that dictatorship. Perhaps your questioning figures from Germany and the WHO may, just perhaps, be legitimate too. However folk might take you more seriously if just once - JUST ONCE - you applied the same cynicism to proven liars in the west...

[Search & Destroy]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 14 April 2020 - 08:10 AM, said:

Okay, if you're gonna quote France, I see Macron's acknowledged and apologised for shortcomings in his government's approach.

Contrast that with what I've just witnessed from Theresa Koffy who's broken every record in brazen, bare faced evasion.

Time after time after time she was asked if her government had made mistakes, with facts and real life references quoted, only to completely ignore the questions and trot out a mindless mantra of denial.

Dodged an answer on why frontline staff STILL lack essential PPE. Dodged an answer why only hospital deaths are being reported in the daily figures. Dodged an answer why her government lagged so far behind others in testing and locking down.

And completely dodged an answer why Cheltenham took place on the same day the WHO declared a worldwide pandemic.

A performance one of your Chinese targets would've been proud of.

I'm sure you're right about under reporting by that dictatorship. Perhaps your questioning figures from Germany and the WHO may, just perhaps, be legitimate too. However folk might take you more seriously if just once - JUST ONCE - you applied the same cynicism to proven liars in the west...

Trumps been hopeless

But I’m responding to this idea that being part of this EU scheme would have seen us in clover, just sensationalist politicisation

Cheltenham was crazy, I said that in the OP, the French were very late in closing the ski resorts too

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 14 April 2020 - 08:17 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 14 April 2020 - 08:12 AM, said:

Trumps been hopeless

But I’m responding to this idea that being part of this EU scheme would have seen us in clover, just sensationalist politicisation

Cheltenham was crazy, I said that in the OP, the French were very late in closing the ski resorts too

Trump's been 'hopeless'?

Just 'hopeless'?

Good grief man - his shameless weaponising of the virus for political purposes has cost incalculable lives!

But even today we see tired old 'fake news' attacks on the press when confronted by facts. The fact his regime is overseeing the worst figures in the world and the fact blame lies at his very own desk.

And if Cheltenham was 'crazy' who was responsible? Wasn't that part of a catalogue of missed opportunities and false assurances too? Ones which yet again - YET AGAIN - a government representative meets with evasion and scapegoating (said all along that's what the 'guided by science' mantra really is)?

Though you'd rather post diversionary accusations or 'tear in my eye' wind-ups than call them out.

No one's said we'd be 'in clover' by joining European schemes. However this government missed out on what could've been life saving gear due to incompetence or ideaology.

Again, your failure to acknowledge as much taints your credibility...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 14 April 2020 - 08:56 AM

[azul]

Search and Destroy, on 14 April 2020 - 08:03 AM, said:

https://www.google.c...p/idUSKBN21C1JC

So Europe have plenty then, OK

That article is dated the 25/3 the same day as British officials failed to attend a third meeting to spell out their requirments.

At least the EU realised their mistakes and progressed the procurement without us.

As they haven't received the shipments yet we'll see in the coming weeks how far £1.3bn goes, but normally 'economy of scale' works in procurement.

[isleaiw1]

joe, on 14 April 2020 - 06:46 AM, said:

I'd like to see figures of all these doctors and nurses that have volunteered and how many have intensive care experience. Intensive care is not just another medical discipline, it is generally run by anaesthetists who are the cream of the medical profession. Similarly it is a long time before an ordinary nurse is trained up to be an intensive care nurse. Are the number of recalled medics as large as the number isolating or ill with the virus. I'd like some actual thought into what is going on and why we are so short of nurses in the first place not just nonsense pumped out to defend the Tories

A good friend is an NHS sister, two of my daughters friends work in hospitals. They can get them up to the speed they need, as its not "normal" intensive care currently. The retired people will be brought in to free up people to be trained.

How about you find a solution not a criticism, anybody can do that bit...?