[FORZA AZZURRI]

DIFH, on 20 December 2020 - 05:32 PM, said:

Yet Ellery announces VAR is working and improves the football experience.

95% of Var decisions are correct so it does help
Problem is the muppets in the caravan are human and get things wrong
Think about it this way …..if no Var in that Lpool game the “goal” would still have been disallowed and people moaning we need Var !

Semi automatic offside is used abroad and works brilliantly like Hawkeye in tennis with a decision in second but the FA didn’t want to use it !!

[danblue]

Zeus, on 04 October 2023 - 10:09 AM, said:

No no no.

Many people are suggesting this. The global rules set by IFAB forbid it for very good reason. The problem that VAR has bestowed upon the game is that it prevents us from celebrating goals properly (literally the best thing about football). Rolling back on a dead incident minutes later exacerbates that problem tenfold - when can you be sure your team has actually scored or that your opponents haven't scored? Would there be a check on the check that's announced around the ground? Absurd idea.

The error from this game is so bad the solution is not to change to global rules of the sport, but either to bin off or strip back VAR to automated/semi-automated technology, and/or improve the communication processes between the officials, introducing a sort of script they would have to formulaically work through to establish very clearly for everyone what the review of the incident is.

All this bull*hit can be boiled down by swapping 'the language' or terminologies they use to make it sound so medically precise and professional.

Scenario A
Ref : Is it a goal?
VAR : Yes

Scenario B
Ref : Is it a goal?
VAR : No
Ref : Why?
VAR : Offside (or other reasons)

Something very simple turned into something extremely complicated

[danblue]

DIFH, on 20 December 2020 - 05:32 PM, said:

Yet Ellery announces VAR is working and improves the football experience.

The swear filter not working? Or did you actually type in *unt?

This post has been edited by danblue: 04 October 2023 - 10:59 AM

[dim view]

JonB, on 04 October 2023 - 10:37 AM, said:

I think there should be some room for the ref to speak to the managers in this one off balls up of massive proportions to say there was confusion and we got it wrong and it should have stood and i'm not saying change the rules for this one issue. See if the managers can agree something so the game gets to the point it should have with a Liverpool goal much like we see on occasions where teams are allowed to score to make up for something eg Jack Lester\Droylsden.

What does need to happen is they need to sort the protocol as to how they work through the decisions so its a repeatable process without confusion. What comes through on the audio is that its a very chaotic process with numerous voices flying about and rushing through it. Compare it to DRS in cricket where its calm voices working through a standard process with what is being checked confirmed to start with.

The VAR man who says there is nothing he can do is, quod demonstrandum, out of his depth. A lightweight. Of course there was something he could do. Get the game stopped even though it had restarted. Embarrassing but quickly forgotten.

[JonB]

dim view, on 04 October 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

The VAR man who says there is nothing he can do is, quod demonstrandum, out of his depth. A lightweight. Of course there was something he could do. Get the game stopped even though it had restarted. Embarrassing but quickly forgotten.

Yep tell the ref they've messed up and come to some solution rather than just leaving it and hoping nothing comes of it which was never going to happen.

[stevie_b]

sophocles, on 09 November 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

I've been saying bin it since day one. The whole thing is utter garbage, and will totally destroy the game if allowed to continue.

Me too. Another thing to go in my "Things I was right about but nobody listened" notebook

[sixmilliondollardan]

Yep, VAR is game killing garbage. Don't trust anyone who thinks it's a good idea, they are anti fun, anti emotion, and would be better served watching televised accountancy. Thank god we don't have to worry about it, even with some of the joke refs we get. Bad decisions are part of the game, alongside shanked shots and sliced clearances.

[spireitedave]

With VAR the TV audience get a full commentary.
The poor sods actually paying to go to the game just get a big screen with the decision....eventually.

[dim view]

Over and above getting the communications right, my solution is to change the rule back - flag then whistle as soon as the offside occurs with a freekick to the attacking side if VAR proves the lino wrong.

[JonB]

dim view, on 04 October 2023 - 05:58 PM, said:

Over and above getting the communications right, my solution is to change the rule back - flag then whistle as soon as the offside occurs with a freekick to the attacking side if VAR proves the lino wrong.

But by doing that you are potentially stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity and replacing it with a free kick that allows the defending team to be behind the ball and in position nullifying any advantage the attacking team created.

[Osborne again]

VAR just takes the intensity out of the game,and slows up play just as much as a fake head injury. We would've probably had a penalty last night if it had been available, but not for me. Even though the quality of our refs range from just above poor to below diabolical, I just wouldn't want it.

[dart in the crossbar]

Osborne again, on 04 October 2023 - 06:32 PM, said:

VAR just takes the intensity out of the game,and slows up play just as much as a fake head injury. We would've probably had a penalty last night if it had been available, but not for me. Even though the quality of our refs range from just above poor to below diabolical, I just wouldn't want it.

The RFU version works fairly well IMHO.

The ref makes a decision then decides whether to ask the TMO to check it. The ref tells the TMO what to check.

The crowd see the re-runs and the TMO gives the ref the info that he has asked for.

Whilst the officials can alert the ref to anything that they think he has missed, the big difference is that the standing of the ref doesn't seem diminished by the TMO in rugby union in the way that it has with football. Communication with the crowd is better and the decisions tend to be made more quickly.

[Johnnyspireite7]

dart in the crossbar, on 04 October 2023 - 06:38 PM, said:

The RFU version works fairly well IMHO.

The ref makes a decision then decides whether to ask the TMO to check it. The ref tells the TMO what to check.

The crowd see the re-runs and the TMO gives the ref the info that he has asked for.

Whilst the officials can alert the ref to anything that they think he has missed, the big difference is that the standing of the ref doesn't seem diminished by the TMO in rugby union in the way that it has with football. Communication with the crowd is better and the decisions tend to be made more quickly.

Same method used in RL as well, usually the question to the Video ref is 'Can I award the try?'

[Osborne again]

dart in the crossbar, on 04 October 2023 - 06:38 PM, said:

The RFU version works fairly well IMHO.

The ref makes a decision then decides whether to ask the TMO to check it. The ref tells the TMO what to check.

The crowd see the re-runs and the TMO gives the ref the info that he has asked for.

Whilst the officials can alert the ref to anything that they think he has missed, the big difference is that the standing of the ref doesn't seem diminished by the TMO in rugby union in the way that it has with football. Communication with the crowd is better and the decisions tend to be made more quickly.

Yes I will agree that it works better in Rugby, but it's become a major challenge to get it anywhere near right in football. I think they said it was to put right a clear and obvious mistake, but obvious to who? The ref and his linesmen have one go at it, they don't get multiple camera angles until it goes to VAR. It would be OK if they overturned a goal for being yard offside, but to be constantly looking at it because it’s that close isn't a clear and obvious mistake. I'll stick with our refs, good, bad or ugly 😂😂😂.

[DerbySpireite59]

We'll just never know if Klopp would have been calling for a relay had Liverpool won.

[Brookie]

You can’t have a replay because of a mistake by a ref, we’d never finish a season!!!

[sophocles]

The reason spectators find the stopping/checking/deciding eventually etc is accepted more in rugby is that rugby can often be incredibly stop-start anyway. In most games, loads of time is spent just standing around trying to sort out scrums and lineouts etc, which is why I find a lot of games boring. Football is usually far more fluent with far less time spent on set-plays. VAR completely destroys the instant reaction and excitement of a goal, which is the very essence of football. Get rid of it completely.

[Wooden Spoon]

JonB, on 04 October 2023 - 09:35 AM, said:

Generally they dont put the flag up in tight situations to allow VAR to work, its better to let them score and rule it out if the decision is wrong than it is to stop play when they could have scored. You also get this silly situation where they wait ages for someone to touch it before flagging even in clear decision situations.

This one is just a major balls up all round. The assistant gets it wrong to start with and flags straight away to stop play when he probably should have waited then flagged. Then once it goes into the VAR room its a whole new level of mess up as they get what has been given to start with wrong, deem it to be onside correctly but then say the original decision was right as they had not realised the flag had gone up to start with. Once they do realise they just effectively sweep it under the carpet saying the game has restarted so nothing they can do. They could and should have advised the ref that it was wrong and seen what they could do about it.

It seems to come from them trying to sort it too quickly after criticisms of VAR being too slow but they dont do basic fundamentals to know what they are checking to start with. The only bloke in the room who knows they've got it wrong and tells them is the only one thats not a qualified official and is the technician doing the replays.

When you see DRS decisions in cricket when they go to the 3rd umpire the first thing he does is explain to the TV people doing the replays who has reviewed the decision (player or umpire), what the incident wws (caught behind, LBW, run out etc) and what the original decision was (out\not out) so they all know what is happening. Takes a matter of seconds and just works. This doesnt happen with VAR, they just rushed into watching replays and drawing lines on the screen.

IMO the problem with VAR is the system is being used to find a reason to disallow a goal, and not to point out “clear and obvious mistakes”

[sophocles]

Wooden Spoon, on 05 October 2023 - 10:19 AM, said:

IMO the problem with VAR is the system is being used to find a reason to disallow a goal, and not to point out “clear and obvious mistakes”

Disagree - the problem with VAR is that it exists at all. Let the game flow properly; boo the officials when they make a blunder, argue about it afterwards, and carry on with the bloomin match.

[JonB]

Wooden Spoon, on 05 October 2023 - 10:19 AM, said:

IMO the problem with VAR is the system is being used to find a reason to disallow a goal, and not to point out “clear and obvious mistakes”

Agree with this, it was meant to be for clear and obvious errors as its used, successfully, in other sports. Football however is seeming to go past that and find reasons to overturn decisions at times. Offside should be a simple on\off decision but is taking too long. When its for possible fouls etc we seem to watch endless replays at various speeds from various angles....if its taking 10\15 viewings of a replay then its not a clear and obvious error. Clear errors would be noticeable after 2 or 3 viewings and job done. The reason they rushed this one thats kicked up a fuss is because of the complaints of the process taking too long and thats partly on them for them hunting for issues at times. It also seems that instead of making VAR work with the laws of the game they are altering the laws of the game at times to help make VAR useable. I've been around football for 40 years since playing as a kid....i'm fairly sure i've no idea what they class as handball and not handball these days!!