Stockholm Spireite, on 06 January 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:
No, I found Ashmore's actions and behaviour disgusting. But let's be clear, what he did cannot be used as a cause or excuse for a pitch invasion. Nor can weak officiating.
No matter how much we want to think we're watching "honest pro's", we're not. Players are coached, encouraged and ordered to do certain things. What Alan Shearer considers 'clever forward play' is diving. It's cheating wrapped in a sugar coating.
Our continental friends did it to our cost and we stood there with a moral compass, trying to say "at least British players stay on their feet" but that changed with the influx of top foreign players.
A buzz phrase in recent years is 'adapt or die'. And the argument for taking steriods is transferred - everyone else is doing it, so in order just to compete on level terms, I'll use them as well. So now our players are using the same tricks as everyone else.
The rewards and the pressures of the game dictate a win at all costs attitude at all levels; even ours. It can be league position or points collected, but those things greatly affect financial rewards for players (moreso down the pyramid) and job security for managers and coaches.
Take the recent Mo Salah incident. Contact on the arm, and he falls over. Could he have stayed on his feet? What was Klopp's reaction at the time and after the game? Was he asked why his players fall down so easily?
Was it Match Of The Day or The Big Match whose opening titles used to have a clip of Mickey Thomas being scythed down, only for him to turn and wink right into the camera? Klinnsmann diving and rolling, anyone? Neymar...
Taking advantages of officials has been around for ages. Think back to Billy Bremner and co. harrassing and intimidating refs for their own advantage. I got wound up when I used to see Gary Neville running 50-odd metres to get in the face of a referee after an incident that didn't involve him (captain or not).
But yes, manager's team-talks do include parts about refs and either getting them onside with you or exploiting the weaknesses of soft/inexperienced refs. Players are on the field looking for any advantage they can get; looking for free kicks, penalties, trying to get opponents booked, etc. but I repeat, this is not cause or an excise for pitch invasion.
The standard of stewarding is something that needs to be addressed urgently. After the first recent incursion, the chief steward should be making his/her staff more vigilant and proactive. The safety officer and matchday commander should be improving and implementing this in conjunction with the Police.
Just watch the clip again and check to see the stewards flap their arms in the first instance, then try to regain the situation afterwards. Then, will Billyeald is escorted away, count the number of passive Police he is greeted by. Shocking standards by all.
Cheating is rife and is contuining to eat away at the game, but you are 100% correct when you say the coaches/managers are responsible.
I'll leave you with a quote from a current premier league coach that encapsulates it perfectly: "There are two things that happen out there on the field; what I coach you to do, and what I allow you to do".
A candid response, thanks and it doesn't paint some of your colleagues in a good light.
You are right Ashmore's actions are not an excuse for pitch invasions, however I'm sure we'll all agree that the intelligence levels a football fan covers the full spectrum from highly intelligent to thick. The exploitation of the thick element, which is valid opinion, by professional people to compensate for their own deficiencies is crossing the line.
Would you deny that in their planning/preparation talks in the run up to the game that their coaches had discussed the scenario, whereby EFC were in the lead but under the cosh (not literally!!) Do you think the Solihull game would have been discussed and the old "lets quieten the crowd adage" put in reverse, ie "they are a volatile set lets wind em up even more" and Ashmore was the perfect candidate to do it. Why the f.. would he gather the ball stroll down to the point where the 18 yard line intersects the goal line, at the closest point to the fans!! and to then get involved with the fans, he knew what he was doing, his team mates knew what he was doing, the technical area knew what he was doing. If this incident hadn't happened along with his other antics the majority of fans wouldn't have been so close remonstrating with him. So yes it's still not a excuse for going on the pitch, but it was an engineered contributory factor by alleged professional people, pathetic. Without these antics would the invasion occurred? I know where my money is.
To turn it a little more light-hearted, when their subs ran onto the pitch to get involved(waved on by management by the way) I can imagine the response from old colleague (Wibber some may know him) "I'd have waited 'til they all got back in the dug out strolled over yellow carded em all for entering the field of play without my permission and when they'd digested that, yellow carded em again for leaving the field of play without my permission. That would have f...ed em up and there's nowt they could do about it, cos you can't appeal a yellow".
Do you coaches meet up for seminars etc and discuss underhand tactics among other things? You've (not you personally I'm sure Sweden being neutral wouldn't approve) got to draw a line, otherwise where will it end? We pay to watch football not a bunch of crooked thespians. The actions of Ebbsfleet and going back to the coached antagonist ball boys (Hazard at Swansea, Evo at pboro) is a step to far and will eventually kill the profession you rely on for a living.
None of the above exonerates the match officials or even more so there bosses, from indirect blame
This post has been edited by clarevoyant.: 07 January 2019 - 12:32 PM
jack bauer 
clarevoyant. 
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