[Heart of a Niven]

I see that Wednesday issued an apology of their own - it would have some credence if they tore down that prehistoric death trap and moved into the 21st century. And Dema's right about York. Caged fans is abhorrent and that place should come down as well.

[oldgoat]

Dema Reborn, on 12 September 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Right the truth is now out and i have been listening to the Commons revelations and i must say if that end of the ground wasn't safe that day it was not safe at anytime i have been there and that is a good few times and i have reservations whether it is safe today.Cages,barriers were a common sight in them days because of the trouble some fans at various times and games by many clubs supporters and even at my last away game i find myself caged in at a football match,yes at York we were caged in....why.....

I want to say i have never ever blamed any of the victims,i have said the fans that came in once the gates had been opened contributed to there deaths but there were many failings leading up to it and afterwards and everyone has been misled/lied to for all these years,i think i have wrongly tried to look at it from my prospective when i was there in 1976 for a similar game.

Today has been a long time in coming i hope for the families of the victims some sort of comfort/closure can start to begin.....

please note this dema , especially the last bit

Mr Cameron said the double injustice was both in the "failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth", and in the efforts to denigrate the deceased and suggest that they were "somehow at fault for their own deaths".

[Tips M'Gee]

If you carried out alcohol tests at any big game a majority would have had a drink or two. In the 1980's police all over the country were dealing with large volumes of supporters worse for wear with drink etc. Absolutely no excuse for poor policing.

160- odd statements altered ffs, absolute disgrace. Establishment cover up on a grand scale, as Gary Lineker has said "its a national disgrace".

Now its time for Rupert Murdoch to close the Sun as well, poor excuse for a toss pot newspaper.

This post has been edited by Tips McGee: 12 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

[Bonnyman]

Dema Reborn, on 12 September 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Just going back to York when we joined the queues to get in,it was at a standstill they were letting no one in for a short period and fans were moaning as to why,then we get in only to be caged in,on a smaller scale maybe but not acceptable in this day and age.....

people drunk at football match...no big shock
people arriving late for a football match...no big shock
people arriving without tickets..no big shock,thats why there are touts.
people allowed into a ground without tickets.....unforgivable,its always been the fault of the police,they knew it and thats why its been a cover up.

[Westbars Spireite]

How the hell are York allowed to still have fences in 2012?

[moondog]

Dema Reborn, on 12 September 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Again i will state i have never said this,they were crushed by those piling in,why they did blood and alcholol tests on the dead is beyond comprehension.....

"piling in" kind of suggests they did something wrong, they entered the ground like any fans desperate to see a big match would, they weren't to know the central pens were already full

[oldgoat]

bonnyman, on 12 September 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

people drunk at football match...no big shock
people arriving late for a football match...no big shock
people arriving without tickets..no big shock,thats why there are touts.
people allowed into a ground without tickets.....unforgivable,its always been the fault of the police,they knew it and thats why its been a cover up.

the report is disgusting , it is worse than i possibly imagined it could be , how can people who do things like that sleep at night !

[moondog]

Dema Reborn, on 12 September 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Yes i guess it does but they did not enter the ground in the correct way,it must have been like a stampede...sounds wrong to me...hose who got there early near the front suffered.....

I have still heard no mention as to why the gates were opened,i know for a big game i want to get there pretty early,Cameron did say something about over capacity was over calculated,not sure what he means by this....

the gates were opened by the police worried about the potential for fans to be crushed outside, which wouldn't happened with effective crowd management. There was no stampede, those at the front suffered because they naturally took the weight of all fans behind them. Many fans were late because of delays on the M62.

Cameron meant the capacity was over calculated 2,000 in a pen where only 1,600 was safe, hence why that end looked packed all the way along

[Hoare (400)]

The tories wanted it covering up then an still wanted it covering up until now! David Cameron n Nick Cleggs coalition have done their damndest to keep these secrets buried, taking it through the courts on numerous occasions to stop it been made public! They should hang their heads in shame, and do the honourable an resign, and call a general election! It stinks, an it wont matter how much they apolagise it will always stink! Every leader from Thatcher onwards who has sat on this is a disgrace!



Hoare (400)

[oldgoat]

Dema Reborn, on 12 September 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Yes i guess it does but they did not enter the ground in the correct way,it must have been like a stampede...sounds wrong to me...hose who got there early near the front suffered.....

I have still heard no mention as to why the gates were opened,i know for a big game i want to get there pretty early,Cameron did say something about over capacity was over calculated,not sure what he means by this....

i suggest you keep quiet dema , the liverpool fans have been exonerated ,there was a police cover up with help from some of the media , establishment etc - that appears to be fact .

[Oscar Tone]

So what happens next? Are any individuals or organisation going to be face with criminal or civil charges? Not sure the latter is something we do in the UK. Be good to see some names brought out into the open of the people who are behind the censorship.

[Tips M'Gee]

Of the 96 that died 41 might have survived ffs

The report finds 164 statements were "significantly amended" and 116 "removed negative comments" about policing operation.

The panel finds that a total of 41 people out of 96 "had the potential to be saved" beyond the 1515 time determined by the original inquest

What if we had had our cup run earlier? This could have been any fan from any club.

This post has been edited by Tips McGee: 12 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

[firedodger]

oldgoat, on 12 September 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

i suggest you keep quiet dema , the liverpool fans have been exonerated ,there was a police cover up with help from some of the media , establishment etc - that appears to be fact .

I think that any reasonable thinking football fan who has ever been to a busy game back in those days knows full well no one person or organization is to blame for all this.
Similarly I don't think anyone comes out blameless, the terrible tragedy that happened to the people at the front of the terracing must have been at least partially caused by the people pushing at the back

[HistoricWarwick]

bonnyman, on 12 September 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

people drunk at football match...no big shock
people arriving late for a football match...no big shock
people arriving without tickets..no big shock,thats why there are touts.
people allowed into a ground without tickets.....unforgivable,its always been the fault of the police,they knew it and thats why its been a cover up.

We all know so many things could and should have been addressed that would have saved lives. Should the police and emergency services have acted differently, yes, should they have blamed supporters, absolutely not as this is unforgiveable. Should the game been at Hillsborough, probably not, should Liverpool been given the kop end probably and so it goes on.

But to suggest that as it is perfectly acceptable to turn up late for a game drunk without a ticket (or any combination of these) and this admonishes you of all responsibility because it is the police's fault if they let you in, is in my eyes morally wrong.

Today's news focusses attention on the authorities for trying to blame others - which again is wrong and right that it has been highlighted. However it doesn't resolve that there were far more factors that led to what happened. For instance I will quote this as it is the only aspect I saw with my own eyes are the 3-4 coaches of Liverpool supporters (I know because they had Knowsley written on the rear) still in The Peacock at Owler Bar 40 mins before kick off. Why do I remember that whilst I was driving through Barlow? Because I thought it was stupid at the time that fans could leave it that late without missing the game.

Is it the authorities fault that fans such as these were leaving it late? Should they be responsible for managing traffic this far out of Sheffield?

I never will accept that it was one groups fault for what happened that day and yet the angle in today's coverage intimates it is.

We will all live to be old remembering that horrific day and in the eyes of some justice is done, to some it never will be but, my interpretation of today is that it was ALL down to the authorities - I will never accept that. If it teaches us one thing, it should be that we are all responsible for our actions and sadly sections of society don't see it like that.