[clarevoyant.]

Due to weird working arrangements at the moment I'm putting together the pieces of last night gleaning what I can off of here and using my mole.
Now my mole is adamant that it was stated that AC lent money to LS for the DC and a business plan was a crucial factor in the decision. Now alarm bells start ringing when business plans are mentioned, but these alarm bells become louder when you concider that in a Chesterfield Post interview it was stated that AC loaned the money at the request of CT. Now I don't see business plans and CT going together.

Should I demote my mole to the infamous "undergoing car park"?

[peakblue]

Ive given ac my support recently and benefit of the doubt.i thought he was bringing some positivity to the fans and seemed to be trying to be kind of one of us.
However i feel he has just totally screwed that up with the non invite of chris turner to the agm.it makes it look like turner has something to hide even more so now and has lost a lot of fans trust just when it was improving a little.
Come on spireites!!

[Guest_freelander2_*]

clarevoyant., on 08 February 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Due to weird working arrangements at the moment I'm putting together the pieces of last night gleaning what I can off of here and using my mole.
Now my mole is adamant that it was stated that AC lent money to LS for the DC and a business plan was a crucial factor in the decision. Now alarm bells start ringing when business plans are mentioned, but these alarm bells become louder when you concider that in a Chesterfield Post interview it was stated that AC loaned the money at the request of CT. Now I don't see business plans and CT going together.

Should I demote my mole to the infamous "undergoing car park"?

On the 5th August, I asked Sutcliffe what he was going to change within his business to ensure it traded in the black and it was clear to me, there was absolutely no plan.

[clarevoyant.]

freelander2, on 08 February 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

On the 5th August, I asked Sutcliffe what he was going to change within his business to ensure it traded in the black and it was clear to me, there was absolutely no plan.

So was ACs "investment" because of
1/ a request from CT.
2/Being impressed by a business plan produced by LS. or
3/ being impressed by a business plan cobbled together by both LS & CT.

A question being asked in the boozer (generally after a few) is:- with CTs absence and his sideways movement. His he actually on gardening leave?

[Yenx]

Billy Bob, on 07 February 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

Chris Turner
I ultimately take responsibility for not inviting CT last night to the AGM.
He is no longer involved in the day to day decision making of the football club and I stand by my decision.
He remains as Director of Football and is doing a very good job.
Square Peg / Round Hole springs to mind.
Once again I hope that we can move forward now in a positive way.

Facebook post by AC

In other words... please stop asking awkward questions. Can't we just pretend this didn't happen and start again with a clean sheet?
It might have worked if that sheet was a healthy balance sheet, but even then I doubt it.

In the words of Mr Bannatyne... I'm out.

This post has been edited by Yenx: 08 February 2017 - 09:05 AM

[Sammy Spireite]

clarevoyant., on 08 February 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

So was ACs "investment" because of
1/ a request from CT.
2/Being impressed by a business plan produced by LS. or
3/ being impressed by a business plan cobbled together by both LS & CT.

A question being asked in the boozer (generally after a few) is:- with CTs absence and his sideways movement. His he actually on gardening leave?

4/ The DC were in danger of not being able to pay CFC what it owed

[Somerset Spireite]

Sammy Spireite, on 08 February 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

4/ The DC were in danger of not being able to pay CFC what it owed

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, Sammy.

[60s 70s Spireite]

I see the Carson interview on Radio Sheffield has confirmed yet another ‘underground car park rumour’; that DA wants approaching £15M for his shares and loans.

Howard Freeman, at the AGM touched on a valuation in answer to a question at the AGM- explaining it was the net asset value as per the balance sheet, plus the loans, plus an element for goodwill. Quite rightly he said the valuation of goodwill was particularly subjective in a football club, unlike most other businesses; as certain people seem to like the prestige of owning a football club and will pay excessive sums for such ‘kudos’.

Like Howard, my business includes getting involved in a large number of business sale and purchase transactions, especially asset based ones.

My personal thoughts: Thing is about the valuation of DA has put out there, it seems to assume the ground is worth £13M because that is what it cost and that is what it is on the balance sheet at. Yet as an asset per se, you would have to say its value, as an arena would be based on its potential rental income. For football, I would think the max rent a lower league club could pay would be around £125k (unless you are Coventry City!), for B & C let's say a rental value of £100k pa. So the capital value, say based on a return of 6% would give a value of around £3.75M. Even double those figures gives a value of only £7.5M. Way off the £13M on the balance sheet. (which would give a rental value of about £780,000 pa). Ok- I’m ‘flying a kite’ but it’s a thought.

As a comparison Barnsley’s ground stands at £5.2M (it is owned by Oakwell Community Assets Limited- shareholders 50% Barnsley MBC and 50% Patrick Clyne). Rent paid by Barnsley FC (presumably for the whole stadium, including B & C, was £103k in the last accounts. Yes, it’s much older, but it’s still just a football ground-and it does have a much bigger capacity.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

I see the Carson interview on Radio Sheffield has confirmed yet another ‘underground car park rumour’; that DA wants approaching £15M for his shares and loans.

Howard Freeman, at the AGM touched on a valuation in answer to a question at the AGM- explaining it was the net asset value as per the balance sheet, plus the loans, plus an element for goodwill. Quite rightly he said the valuation of goodwill was particularly subjective in a football club, unlike most other businesses; as certain people seem to like the prestige of owning a football club and will pay excessive sums for such ‘kudos’.

Like Howard, my business includes getting involved in a large number of business sale and purchase transactions, especially asset based ones.

My personal thoughts: Thing is about the valuation of DA has put out there, it seems to assume the ground is worth £13M because that is what it cost and that is what it is on the balance sheet at. Yet as an asset per se, you would have to say its value, as an arena would be based on its potential rental income. For football, I would think the max rent a lower league club could pay would be around £125k (unless you are Coventry City!), for B & C let's say a rental value of £100k pa. So the capital value, say based on a return of 6% would give a value of around £3.75M. Even double those figures gives a value of only £7.5M. Way off the £13M on the balance sheet. (which would give a rental value of about £780,000 pa). Ok- I’m ‘flying a kite’ but it’s a thought.

As a comparison Barnsley’s ground stands at £5.2M (it is owned by Oakwell Community Assets Limited- shareholders 50% Barnsley MBC and 50% Patrick Clyne). Rent paid by Barnsley FC (presumably for the whole stadium, including B & C, was £103k in the last accounts. Yes, it’s much older, but it’s still just a football ground-and it does have a much bigger capacity.

I just can't get past anyone paying more than £8M, an amount that would just about cover the repayment of Allen's loans and the mortgage provided by his company.

This post has been edited by freelander2: 08 February 2017 - 11:55 AM

[60s 70s Spireite]

freelander2, on 08 February 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

I just can't get past anyone paying more than £8M, an amount that would just about cover the repayment of Allen's loans and the mortgage provided by his company.

That's me. 'We will take it off your hands'.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Sammy Spireite, on 08 February 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

4/ The DC were in danger of not being able to pay CFC what it owed

I'm pretty sure Shorts' representative confirmed the DS owed CFC money at the end of at least two recent financial years.

Meanwhile what could be hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of payments, wages and others, were made 'on behalf' of the DS.

And of course that's without mentioning the indirect support of using the CFC badge, brand, facilities and staff.

I'll allow folk to make up their own minds whether Turner, Carson and Croot therefore lied when denying any financial involvement in the DS.

I also found it bewildering when Carson and Turner claimed they'd invested tens of thousands of their own money in a debt and CCJ laden enterprise run by someone even they'd dubbed a liar. Carson at one point said it was because LS offered a credible business plan before seeming to change his story to one where he'd simply responded to a request from CT.

It then appears highly probable that, knowing 'the cat was out the bag', their money was used to clear DS debt at CFC. Perhaps alongside a great deal more somehow written off against supposed use of facilities and equipment.

Either way I repeat my belief it's strangely convenient that CFC looks like one of very few, maybe even the only business to receive back all it's money.

I'm told Carson is now saying he's washed his hands of the DS, an enterprise where no illegality took place.

So what about parents' cash being taken for trips that were never booked? What about allegations Sutcliffe continued accruing debt knowing the DS would be wound-up? What about the other accusations we know Carson's aware of?

Talk of transparency, openness and zero tolerance sounds as hollow as ever...

[Spireite-Karl]

I don't know how anybody feels that they can trust Carson (apart from CT and DA that is). I can't wait for the day that they are out of here, so we can start to pick up the pieces.

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 08 February 2017 - 06:08 PM

[Security66]

Spireite-Karl, on 08 February 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

I don't know how anybody feels that they can trust Carson (apart from CT and DA that is). I can't wait for the day that they are out of here, so we can start to pick up the pieces.

The day can't come soon enough when this shower are out of our club,the damage they are doing will take a long time to get over.

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 08 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure Shorts' representative confirmed the DS owed CFC money at the end of at least two recent financial years.

Meanwhile what could be hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of payments, wages and others, were made 'on behalf' of the DS.

And of course that's without mentioning the indirect support of using the CFC badge, brand, facilities and staff.

I'll allow folk to make up their own minds whether Turner, Carson and Croot therefore lied when denying any financial involvement in the DS.

I also found it bewildering when Carson and Turner claimed they'd invested tens of thousands of their own money in a debt and CCJ laden enterprise run by someone even they'd dubbed a liar. Carson at one point said it was because LS offered a credible business plan before seeming to change his story to one where he'd simply responded to a request from CT.

It then appears highly probable that, knowing 'the cat was out the bag', their money was used to clear DS debt at CFC. Perhaps alongside a great deal more somehow written off against supposed use of facilities and equipment.

Either way I repeat my belief it's strangely convenient that CFC looks like one of very few, maybe even the only business to receive back all it's money.

I'm told Carson is now saying he's washed his hands of the DS, an enterprise where no illegality took place.

So what about parents' cash being taken for trips that were never booked? What about allegations Sutcliffe continued accruing debt knowing the DS would be wound-up? What about the other accusations we know Carson's aware of?

Talk of transparency, openness and zero tolerance sounds as hollow as ever...

And yet shareholders accepted that the accounts were a true record, although Carson has agreed that some raised their hand sheepishly. What a farce.

[60s 70s Spireite]

Still nothing at Companies House of CFC Development School passing a resolution to go into administration or liquidation (which were informed had happened)

[Guest_freelander2_*]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Still nothing at Companies House of CFC Development School passing a resolution to go into administration or liquidation (which were informed had happened)

What I can't fathom out is why Rodney Walker, Mike Hegarty, Veritas & FBT have gone along with the 50% share acquisition tripe put out by Chesterfield Football Club and its officials. By doing so, they have now also got dragged into this mess, which begs the question what is the link between their board and our board?

[Wooden Spoon]

freelander2 said:

1486581773[/url]' post='1278411']
What I can't fathom out is why Rodney Walker, Mike Hegarty, Veritas & FBT have gone along with the 50% share acquisition tripe put out by Chesterfield Football Club and its officials. By doing so, they have now also got dragged into this mess, which begs the question what is the link between their board and our board?

Their board will replace the one from Sheffield.

[moondog]

freelander2, on 08 February 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

What I can't fathom out is why Rodney Walker, Mike Hegarty, Veritas & FBT have gone along with the 50% share acquisition tripe put out by Chesterfield Football Club and its officials. By doing so, they have now also got dragged into this mess, which begs the question what is the link between their board and our board?

I asked AC who wrote the press release still presenting this untruth on Monday and he told me FBT, incredible that the club were publishing yet another false press release at the same time they were pledging honesty and transparency at the AGM

[Wooden Spoon]

moondog, on 08 February 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

I asked AC who wrote the press release still presenting this untruth on Monday and he told me FBT, incredible that the club were publishing yet another false press release at the same time they were pledging honesty and transparency at the AGM

Why is anyone surprised that the club/Carson tell lies? How many times do you have to be burned?
Fitzgerald was a liar who's silence was bought
Sutcliffe is a liar. His lies were tolerated until it exposed CT who was moved sideways to deflect- placate until his lies have exposed and now Carson is in the firing line. If this continues expect CT to be the next casualty. A mate who coaches kids at Colchester asked what is going on 'he also asked, and he knows his onions what the take over is. He's adamant a takeover is in the offing, it's dotting the i and crossings the t etc but also that depends on where we are next season.

Personally I told him to back us for a double relegation- cooks worry about doing a Leyton orient look somewhat prophetic

[Guest_freelander2_*]

moondog, on 08 February 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

I asked AC who wrote the press release still presenting this untruth on Monday and he told me FBT, incredible that the club were publishing yet another false press release at the same time they were pledging honesty and transparency at the AGM

Could this get any more surreal?