[ELTON 2020]

Spire-Heights, on 24 October 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

The club's annual accounts were released today, showing a profit for the second year running.
The pre-tax profit for the year was £42,328, as against £84,879 the previous year.

Director and company secretary Ashley Carson commented: “Whilst the result is slightly disappointing, at the end of the day the club has made a profit.

“As shown in the profit and loss account, the company's turnover has increased from £7.34m in the previous year to £7.52m. This is mainly due to player sales, something we are dependent on to balance the books. The transfer fees totalled £2,009,352, which increased by £523,625 compared to 2015.

“The reduction in gate revenue and season ticket income was disappointing, falling from £2.05m in the previous year to £1.63m. The cash generated from the sale of players meant that the player budget was held broadly in line with the previous season, but this has obviously seriously hit the profit and loss for the year.

“There was also there was the added cost of replacing the manager and coaching staff during the year. The debt still has to be managed and remains a continuous strain on the club, but we are committed to reducing it going forward.”

The club will be holding its AGM on Monday, November 14 at 7pm in the DCJ Group Spires Restaurant at the Proact and all shareholders are encouraged to attend and ask questions.

As long as Elvis Presley remains dead.......No chance mate!

[Westbars Spireite]

It's only money eh Dave? Easy come, easy go.

I think he now knows he ain't seeing his 'investment' bear any fruit.

[Forever a Spireite]

Phil V 72, on 25 October 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

"And he dubbed ‘pathetic’ a number of supporters he believes take a negative view on everything the club does, while also taking aim at the Derbyshire Times.

The club’s debt stands at £8,581,018, compared to £8,568,966 as per last year’s accounts."

Just, wow

Just seen the pathetic fans quote! Unbelievable that's made my mind up the stay away option for the Blades match will happen now. Ill still watch the game in the Boythorpe with my ticket money going to the landlord who knows how to treat his customers. 32 years watching Town and he calls me pathetic for being negative and criticising everything they do. It could be worse at least he hasn't called us Cretins yet!

[brianclose]

“There was also there was the added cost of replacing the manager and coaching staff during the year. The debt still has to be managed and remains a continuous strain on the club, but we are committed to reducing it going forward.”


I thought it was widely reported that Deano and his mate Carey had agreed to only 3 months severance pay each as part of their contracts?

Chicken feed!

[Westbars Spireite]

Have we got a full breakdown of ins and outs yet so we can get some idea of the breadth of the financial incompetence here?

[frearsghost]

frearsghost, on 23 October 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

More to the point, why is a company that's losing money paying bonuses to employees? Shouldn't shareholders be the beneficiaries of such irresponsible largesse.

Accounts received this morning. I still can't find any figures regarding transfer bonuses paid to staff. It could be that these, if any, are included under wages and hidden. If so, shareholders could be forgiven for being frustrated at the lack of transparency given a disappointing £39K profit.

[Cartman]

do we know exactly how much Allen has taken in interest payments?

Could he be close to having his original investment back so keeping the debt the same to maximize further payments of interest?

[azul]

frearsghost, on 25 October 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Accounts received this morning. I still can't find any figures regarding transfer bonuses paid to staff. It could be that these, if any, are included under wages and hidden. If so, shareholders could be forgiven for being frustrated at the lack of transparency given a disappointing £39K profit.

You wouldn't expect that to be detailed surely

Seems fair to assume it is hidden in with the 'Wages, play costs and admin". Another possibility could be "Legal and professional, including agents fees", that seems excessive

[Sammy Spireite]

IF the rumours are to be believed, one person making more in performance bonus than the busines makes in profit is nothing short of scandalous IMHO.

[azul]

Cartman, on 25 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

do we know exactly how much Allen has taken in interest payments?

Could he be close to having his original investment back so keeping the debt the same to maximize further payments of interest?

At interest payable of £244K p/a, it will take a few years but the principle is there. Can't tell how much of that actually goes into his back pocket each year though

[azul]

Westbars Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Have we got a full breakdown of ins and outs yet so we can get some idea of the breadth of the financial incompetence here?

Too much detail, but here is a flavour

In 7.529M

Gate 1.638M, TV and awards 1.186M, Transfers 2.009M, Commercial 2.082M, Other 0.612M

Out:
Admin 6.432 (including all wages of 4.178M and Pension an NI of 0.464M)
Cost of Sales 0.514M
Rates etc. 0.365M
Interest Payable 0.244M

This post has been edited by azul: 25 October 2016 - 12:46 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

What's included in 'cost of sales'? IT, bank charges etc?

Where does travel, hotels etc go?

This post has been edited by Westbars Spireite: 25 October 2016 - 12:53 PM

[azul]

Westbars Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

What's included in 'cost of sales'? IT, bank charges etc?

Where does travel, hotels etc go?

Not detailed, could be that, maybe the cost of a pie before it is heated and sold to the punters, that sort of thing

Travel in admin costs at 0.173M

Edit:

Being flippant "cost of sales" could be covering, you know what

This post has been edited by azul: 25 October 2016 - 01:06 PM

[60s 70s Spireite]

azul, on 25 October 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

At interest payable of £244K p/a, it will take a few years but the principle is there. Can't tell how much of that actually goes into his back pocket each year though

DA and A+S Leisure were owed £5.837M at the year end-increasing by £517k after the year end- as a result of him loaning more money to repay CBC (that excludes his £3M shares bought at par, and those transferred to family). If the club could afford it, 20 years it would take to earn the interest gross to effectively get his loan back- except he will have had to pay tax on that interest.

Then - what will his shares be worth after paying out that lot?

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

DA and A+S Leisure were owed £5.837M at the year end-increasing by £517k after the year end- as a result of him loaning more money to repay CBC (that excludes his £3M shares bought at par, and those transferred to family). If the club could afford it, 20 years it would take to earn the interest gross to effectively get his loan back- except he will have had to pay tax on that interest.

Then - what will his shares be worth after paying out that lot?

You know my grasp of accounting...
If one of DA's businesses can borrow money from say, the Royal Bank of Zambia, at a much lower cost than he loans it to us, how would that manifest itself? It seems to me he's on to a good deal until the cost of his borrowing exceeds 5%.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dim view, on 25 October 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

You know my grasp of accounting...
If one of DA's businesses can borrow money from say, the Royal Bank of Zambia, at a much lower cost than he loans it to us, how would that manifest itself? It seems to me he's on to a good deal until the cost of his borrowing exceeds 5%.

I would think he wouldn't need to borrow any money, he will have it sat around doing not a lot. I keep coming back to the point, why burden your (effectively) own company with costs it can ill afford?

Is it because he sees that the club/company may fail- he loses his shares, but because of interest received and he having first charge on all the assets, he just about gets his leg out?- But even then it would take something like 12 years for the interest to cover the potential losses on his shares.

[azul]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

DA and A+S Leisure were owed £5.837M at the year end-increasing by £517k after the year end- as a result of him loaning more money to repay CBC (that excludes his £3M shares bought at par, and those transferred to family). If the club could afford it, 20 years it would take to earn the interest gross to effectively get his loan back- except he will have had to pay tax on that interest.

Then - what will his shares be worth after paying out that lot?

Assuming inflation is zero and he pays tax like normal people the net interest it shoud take getting on for 30 years to effectively get his money back. Of course the club will still owe him nigh on £6M if the debt miraculously doesn't grow

Surely at the end of that period his shares will still be worth £4M (minus those he gifted to associates), his loan will still be £6M, so he'd want £10M. As he has already trousered £6M in interest he might sell for a small discount.

Good help us if DA still owns the club in 30 years though!

[60s 70s Spireite]

azul, on 25 October 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Assuming inflation is zero and he pays tax like normal people the net interest it shoud take getting on for 30 years to effectively get his money back. Of course the club will still owe him nigh on £6M if the debt miraculously doesn't grow

Surely at the end of that period his shares will still be worth £4M (minus those he gifted to associates), his loan will still be £6M, so he'd want £10M. As he has already trousered £6M in interest he might sell for a small discount.

Good help us if DA still owns the club in 30 years though!

If the club has underlying losses of £2M a year- why will his shares be worth the same as when he subscribed for them? More likely they will be worthless. Plus, to fund the business, he will have had to increase his loans.

[bigdbh2]

He won't be planning to go under. As it is every year we survive, a shortfall in bad years and a small profit in years like last year. In the meantime he receives 5% on his investment. and still owing him circa £9m.

Long term he will sell the club along with the debt, by that time it won't owe him much.

I think the fallacy is that he is trying to run the club into the ground. His best case would be the debt being serviced/reduced year on year and the value of his shares increasing.

[azul]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

If the club has underlying losses of £2M a year- why will his shares be worth the same as when he subscribed for them? More likely they will be worthless. Plus, to fund the business, he will have had to increase his loans.

I did say "£6M if the debt miraculously doesn't grow", the whole thing is a bit hypothetical

I asked this question a page or so back

With all the manoeuvrings, such as transferring a proportion of shares to other 'friendly" parties, transferring the council debt and trust debt to himself, thereby securing his hold on the stadium aid in the splitting of the stadium and football club. Could he then proportion the debt between the stadium company and football club prior to selling the football side.

This post has been edited by azul: 25 October 2016 - 02:03 PM