[Zorro]

mr. smith, on 28 June 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

the bit I highlighted stopped after 'no idea what was going on'.

without wanting to put words in ernies mouth have you ever thought 'ordinary fan' means all of us as the club seem to be incapable of doing anything but alienate the fanbase.

think youre a little bit touchy over nothing.

'Touchy', I think the word you could have used was 'frustrated'

4 months & 94 pages of comments from a small proportion of 'ordinary' Chesterfield fans, where the majority don't have the same knowledge because they don't spend their time on here is frustrating!

Accusations, name calling and questions posted in here will not benefit the fans.
Something needs to happen, somebody needs to approach the club and ask the questions face to face. Perhaps fans talking to the club will result in answers or even apologies, but sending a lynch mob in to oust certain personnel is not the answer. Can't you see that the barriers are up? Can't you see that fans have created an 'Us' & 'them' situation? The club has closed ranks and have divorced themselves from the fans. It will be very hard for them to win back fans, win back sponsors and please everybody.

I don't recognise our club anymore, I don't understand why a board can distance itself from the paying customers, but...... I would like to find a solution to the issues and problems that persistently crop up.

We may all be peed off with things that have happened, but how do you think the board and the CEO are thinking? Some of the terminology used on here is embarrassing and shocking. Why should they answer questions with so much hate directed their way?

People need to stop feeding bile and think of ways of reasoning with the club, try to discuss and debate the issues which have been raised and try to obtain answers and then work on a 'fix'.

CFC is owned by DA, DA rightly or wrongly relies on CT & AC. DA can do what he pleases until somebody matches his money or sells his shares. The good name of CFC might get dragged through the media, but nothing will change until both the club and fans meet half way.

Z

[spireitenag]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

'Touchy', I think the word you could have used was 'frustrated'

4 months & 94 pages of comments from a small proportion of 'ordinary' Chesterfield fans, where the majority don't have the same knowledge because they don't spend their time on here is frustrating!

Accusations, name calling and questions posted in here will not benefit the fans.
Something needs to happen, somebody needs to approach the club and ask the questions face to face. Perhaps fans talking to the club will result in answers or even apologies, but sending a lynch mob in to oust certain personnel is not the answer. Can't you see that the barriers are up? Can't you see that fans have created an 'Us' & 'them' situation? The club has closed ranks and have divorced themselves from the fans. It will be very hard for them to win back fans, win back sponsors and please everybody.

I don't recognise our club anymore, I don't understand why a board can distance itself from the paying customers, but...... I would like to find a solution to the issues and problems that persistently crop up.

We may all be peed off with things that have happened, but how do you think the board and the CEO are thinking? Some of the terminology used on here is embarrassing and shocking. Why should they answer questions with so much hate directed their way?

People need to stop feeding bile and think of ways of reasoning with the club, try to discuss and debate the issues which have been raised and try to obtain answers and then work on a 'fix'.

CFC is owned by DA, DA rightly or wrongly relies on CT & AC. DA can do what he pleases until somebody matches his money or sells his shares. The good name of CFC might get dragged through the media, but nothing will change until both the club and fans meet half way.

Z

I had a face to face meeting with Chris Turner and Liam Sutcliffe in March.

Believe me the outcome turned out to be far from satisfactory.

If you fancy a chat about it before you meet with CT I'm more than happy to meet with you.

Regards Nigel.

[Zorro]

spireitenag, on 28 June 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

I had a face to face meeting with Chris Turner and Liam Sutcliffe in March.

Believe me the outcome turned out to be far from satisfactory.

If you fancy a chat about it before you meet with CT I'm more than happy to meet with you.

Regards Nigel.

Anytime Nigel, no problem meeting up. I will pm you my mobile no. or you can get it from Nikki

Z

[spireitenag]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

Anytime Nigel, no problem meeting up. I will pm you my mobile no. or you can get it from Nikki

Z

I've just cleared some space in my inbox,I think you may have been unable to message me.

[Zorro]

spireitenag, on 28 June 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

I've just cleared some space in my inbox,I think you may have been unable to message me.

pm sent

[Paul Fisher]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

'Touchy', I think the word you could have used was 'frustrated'

4 months & 94 pages of comments from a small proportion of 'ordinary' Chesterfield fans, where the majority don't have the same knowledge because they don't spend their time on here is frustrating!

Accusations, name calling and questions posted in here will not benefit the fans.
Something needs to happen, somebody needs to approach the club and ask the questions face to face. Perhaps fans talking to the club will result in answers or even apologies, but sending a lynch mob in to oust certain personnel is not the answer. Can't you see that the barriers are up? Can't you see that fans have created an 'Us' & 'them' situation? The club has closed ranks and have divorced themselves from the fans. It will be very hard for them to win back fans, win back sponsors and please everybody.

I don't recognise our club anymore, I don't understand why a board can distance itself from the paying customers, but...... I would like to find a solution to the issues and problems that persistently crop up.

We may all be peed off with things that have happened, but how do you think the board and the CEO are thinking? Some of the terminology used on here is embarrassing and shocking. Why should they answer questions with so much hate directed their way?

People need to stop feeding bile and think of ways of reasoning with the club, try to discuss and debate the issues which have been raised and try to obtain answers and then work on a 'fix'.

CFC is owned by DA, DA rightly or wrongly relies on CT & AC. DA can do what he pleases until somebody matches his money or sells his shares. The good name of CFC might get dragged through the media, but nothing will change until both the club and fans meet half way.

Z

Are CFC owned by DA or is he the majority shareholder?

[Spireite-Karl]

Good luck Zorro.
Normally I'd agree with you and I massively applaud you for trying, though I really think you are underestimating our hierarchy here. You only have to look at the Ernie Moss charity funds and the PPP. They are arrogant, have no morals and have no time for the fans. The sooner they are out of our football club the better! Sorry if that's not the sort of thing you are wanting to here from the fans, but I'm pretty sure you'll find out soon enough for yourself. Please let Bob's Board know how you got on.. The good, bad and ugly.

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 28 June 2016 - 04:23 PM

[Zorro]

Cheers Karl and thanks for your support. I don't underestimate them at all. I have already had a run in with a certain person at a shareholders meeting who dislikes me as I say it as it is and not what he wanted to hear.

But heyho, life goes on until they ban me, and if that happens for speaking the truth, then watch this space.
There are not many old sponsors left

As for the Ernie Moss charity, I had employed a PR company to run an article of the day & Picks disease and I had been constantly asked for the final figure so that the article could be sent in to the national magazines, so I am a little bit embarrassed myself that the figure couldn't be released. It is not a case of the money not being handed over immediately, both myself and Team Ernie needed a figure. There is NO excuse for the figure not to be given. I understand holidays are being blamed but as I know the person who had this task assigned to them was only on holiday for 1 week, the time it has took is my bone of contention.

The CFC statement stated that the stewards & H&S was discussed by CT & Nikki, yet Nikki has never met CT on a 1 to 1 basis, the discussion took place with Phil Walker. Everybody can understand the need to have stewards at a game, but when charities are involved, wouldn't it be a better idea to have a list of stewards that would gladly attend to the stewarding free of charge? (like so many of our stewards had already volunteered to do it for free). Another job for the boys I guess. And how come we couldn't organise a few buckets to the car park so that people could donate into the charity for parking their cars there? Was that too hard to organise?

CFC could have benefited from a very good exercise surrounding this charity by assisting Team Ernie with other simple procedures.

I have to applaud the girls from the office who helped out in the foyer who all worked for free.
The catering was good and the service at the tables was spot on.

Z

[Spireite-Karl]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Cheers Karl and thanks for your support. I don't underestimate them at all. I have already had a run in with a certain person at a shareholders meeting who dislikes me as I say it as it is and not what he wanted to hear.

But heyho, life goes on until they ban me, and if that happens for speaking the truth, then watch this space.
There are not many old sponsors left

As for the Ernie Moss charity, I had employed a PR company to run an article of the day & Picks disease and I had been constantly asked for the final figure so that the article could be sent in to the national magazines, so I am a little bit embarrassed myself that the figure couldn't be released. It is not a case of the money not being handed over immediately, both myself and Team Ernie needed a figure. There is NO excuse for the figure not to be given. I understand holidays are being blamed but as I know the person who had this task assigned to them was only on holiday for 1 week, the time it has took is my bone of contention.

The CFC statement stated that the stewards & H&S was discussed by CT & Nikki, yet Nikki has never met CT on a 1 to 1 basis, the discussion took place with Phil Walker. Everybody can understand the need to have stewards at a game, but when charities are involved, wouldn't it be a better idea to have a list of stewards that would gladly attend to the stewarding free of charge? (like so many of our stewards had already volunteered to do it for free). Another job for the boys I guess. And how come we couldn't organise a few buckets to the car park so that people could donate into the charity for parking their cars there? Was that too hard to organise?

CFC could have benefited from a very good exercise surrounding this charity by assisting Team Ernie with other simple procedures.

I have to applaud the girls from the office who helped out in the foyer who all worked for free.
The catering was good and the service at the tables was spot on.

Z

You clearly have your head screwed on and your eyes wide open. All the best with the meeting (I hope you get one) and I hope that something comes good of it for both club and fans no matter how small. The situation clearly can carry on the way it is and somebody has to try to do something about it, so you have my utmost admiration and respect. Please keep the board posted if you do get a meeting.

[Westbars Spireite]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

'Touchy', I think the word you could have used was 'frustrated'

4 months & 94 pages of comments from a small proportion of 'ordinary' Chesterfield fans, where the majority don't have the same knowledge because they don't spend their time on here is frustrating!

Accusations, name calling and questions posted in here will not benefit the fans.
Something needs to happen, somebody needs to approach the club and ask the questions face to face. Perhaps fans talking to the club will result in answers or even apologies, but sending a lynch mob in to oust certain personnel is not the answer. Can't you see that the barriers are up? Can't you see that fans have created an 'Us' & 'them' situation? The club has closed ranks and have divorced themselves from the fans. It will be very hard for them to win back fans, win back sponsors and please everybody.

I don't recognise our club anymore, I don't understand why a board can distance itself from the paying customers, but...... I would like to find a solution to the issues and problems that persistently crop up.

We may all be peed off with things that have happened, but how do you think the board and the CEO are thinking? Some of the terminology used on here is embarrassing and shocking. Why should they answer questions with so much hate directed their way?

People need to stop feeding bile and think of ways of reasoning with the club, try to discuss and debate the issues which have been raised and try to obtain answers and then work on a 'fix'.

CFC is owned by DA, DA rightly or wrongly relies on CT & AC. DA can do what he pleases until somebody matches his money or sells his shares. The good name of CFC might get dragged through the media, but nothing will change until both the club and fans meet half way.

Z

All the fans doing, eh? Nothing to do with the actions of 'the club'? I think you've got that bang the wrong way around.

[Spireite-Karl]

Westbars Spireite, on 28 June 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

All the fans doing, eh? Nothing to do with the actions of 'the club'? I think you've got that bang the wrong way around.

Yeah, that really wound me up as well tbh Tim, but at least he's prepared to have a go and do something about it, that I really applaud.

[Westbars Spireite]

Spireite-Karl, on 28 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yeah, that really wound me up as well tbh Tim, but at least he's prepared to have a go and do something about it, that I really applaud.

Maybe it wasn't meant as I read it. That aside good luck to him. I wouldn't give CT the steam off my piss let alone my free time.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

I can assure you that the director I phoned last week over the scandalous Ernie Moss charity had NO IDEA what was going on. I believe the board used to meet every Thursday which changed to every month.

you highlighted in full, which bit don't you believe? It would be better if you are going to highlight something from my posts that you are clearer with your replies.

Ernie x 3 wrote "I have my season ticket for next season, but if the club continues to distance itself from the ordinary fan and we continue to move from one disaster to another, I may just be tempted to say **** it."

By replying to my post, with your 'ordinary fan' remark, implied that I wasn't an ordinary fan. Just because I can pick the phone up and talk to the directors does not mean I am somebody special or of importance, I am no different to the rest of the Town fans who have worries and concerns regarding CFC and how it is heading.

Marcia commented on my post by trying to answer the content how she read it, which is 100% correct.

I will not be drawn into arguments with fans from our club. I have no agenda on here other than seeking the truth from CFC and hopefully I will get a few answers when I meet CT next week.

Z

P.S. I don't understand how to use the Multi-Quote tab, so forgive me if my post comes out incorrectly.

I wasn't implying you were anything if a fan just that I was an ordinary sit in the kop bloke, that is getting totally frustrated with goings on. I'm glad I don't have access to a director tbh if the come with stuff like they don't know what's going on. At best that means they aren't playing any kind of role or having anything to do with the club and the fans. I don't think I have spoken to one fan that doesn't know questions are being asked about the Ppp, that there are concerns about money and where it's gone and why the debt doesn't appear manageable, concerns about how Turner is running the club, concerns about the deathly silence from the club to alley fears. Then add the Ernie debacle.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Westbars Spireite, on 28 June 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

All the fans doing, eh? Nothing to do with the actions of 'the club'? I think you've got that bang the wrong way around.

When people work their wotsits off to ensure they can support/sponsor/advertise all things CFC, I don't think seeing the club's reputation being dragged through the mud sits well with most, it certainly doesn't with me.

People have only got to take a look at the Ernie Moss thread, the reason it was created and which group have tried to smooth things over with the family.

[Westbars Spireite]

freelander2, on 28 June 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

When people work their wotsits off to ensure they can support/sponsor/advertise all things CFC, I don't think seeing the club's reputation being dragged through the mud sits well with most, it certainly doesn't with me.

People have only got to take a look at the Ernie Moss thread, the reason it was created and which group have tried to smooth things over with the family.

If we're keeping certain issues high profile for short term pain it sure as hell isn't for the fun of it.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 28 June 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

I wasn't implying you were anything of a fan just that I was an ordinary sit in the kop bloke, that is getting totally frustrated with goings on. I'm glad I don't have access to a director tbh if the come with stuff like they don't know what's going on. At best that means they aren't playing any kind of role or having anything to do with the club and the fans. I don't think I have spoken to one fan that doesn't know questions are being asked about the Ppp, that there are concerns about money and where it's gone and why the debt doesn't appear manageable, concerns about how Turner is running the club, concerns about the deathly silence from the club to alley fears. Then add the Ernie debacle.

[jonnythespireite]

Zorro, on 28 June 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

'Touchy', I think the word you could have used was 'frustrated'

4 months & 94 pages of comments from a small proportion of 'ordinary' Chesterfield fans, where the majority don't have the same knowledge because they don't spend their time on here is frustrating!

Accusations, name calling and questions posted in here will not benefit the fans.
Something needs to happen, somebody needs to approach the club and ask the questions face to face. Perhaps fans talking to the club will result in answers or even apologies, but sending a lynch mob in to oust certain personnel is not the answer. Can't you see that the barriers are up? Can't you see that fans have created an 'Us' & 'them' situation? The club has closed ranks and have divorced themselves from the fans. It will be very hard for them to win back fans, win back sponsors and please everybody.

I don't recognise our club anymore, I don't understand why a board can distance itself from the paying customers, but...... I would like to find a solution to the issues and problems that persistently crop up.

We may all be peed off with things that have happened, but how do you think the board and the CEO are thinking? Some of the terminology used on here is embarrassing and shocking. Why should they answer questions with so much hate directed their way?

People need to stop feeding bile and think of ways of reasoning with the club, try to discuss and debate the issues which have been raised and try to obtain answers and then work on a 'fix'.

CFC is owned by DA, DA rightly or wrongly relies on CT & AC. DA can do what he pleases until somebody matches his money or sells his shares. The good name of CFC might get dragged through the media, but nothing will change until both the club and fans meet half way.

Z

'The fans have created an us and them situation .......'
Really? I'd strongly suggest it's the other way around.
Lies, incompetence, ineptitude culminating in financial issues and any blame for all this generally laid at the feet of the paying supporter.

[Torteval]

MDCCCLXVI, on 26 June 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Clearly the last eighteen or so months have been a PR disaster for Chesterfield Football Club.

Huge losses; selling players; losing a successful and popular manager; appointing a failed and unwanted replacement; late and questionable signings; a mid-season sacking; a relegation battle; the debt continuing to rise despite record receipts; Turner and Sutcliffe; PPP; Bingham; a litany of negative media stories; banning the DT; the exit of lifelong Spireites; recruiting a hugely controversial player; sponsors pulling out; shambolic treatment of the Moss family...

..meanwhile statements released to address these issues merely added to the doubt, distrust and derision.

Something has to change.

So if I were Chairman?

Well first thing Monday morning I'd arrange to personally visit the Moss family, offer an unequivocal apology for the way they've been treated then confirm any and all costs surrounding the charity game would be absorbed by the Club. Hell, surely the lounge and concourse profits should cover those expenses and if certain staff members can allegedly enjoy significant bonuses...I guess you see where I'm going with this.

I'd also invite the DT to cover this meeting, making it abundantly clear that in future those responsible for failings would suffer consequences rather than those reporting them.

After that I'd be on the phone to Alan Walters. Whatever differences I had with the Board on which he sat - and there were many - I believe him to be an honest individual with the Club's best interests at heart. I'd request he conduct a fully comprehensive audit of CFC to reveal where every penny has been going. I would act upon his report and recommendations

The media manager overseeing much of the above would then come into focus. As I said the platitudinal, clumsy, often inaccurate comments peddled in the face of obvious problems have fuelled rather than dealt with them. Perhaps he's offered advice which has been ignored, I dunno, but there appears to be a dismissive, excuse-laden 'bunker mentality' amongst those running CFC to which he's inextricably linked.

Next I'd disassociate Chesterfield Football Club from PPP. I'd demand they relinquish use of the CFC name, badge, brand and facilities once more turning to the DT to publicise the act. And if Alan Walters' investigations revealed financial connections? Again I'd act upon his advice putting the interests of CFC paramount. If CFC employees choose to run an enterprise then fine, that's their choice. However there must be clear, black and white dividing lines between their position at the Club and that enterprise. Meanwhile any business between the two must, again, only be in the interests of the football club. Indeed given the reported resignation of Turner from the International PPP maybe a move towards this has already taken place (though why one and not the other?.

Which brings us to the CEO. Like many 'Bob's Board' members, I believe, I consider his position totally untenable. I don't need to remind folk of the litany, the bewildering catalogue of gaffes witnessed on his watch, so to speak. I'm told those in authority argue he's raised millions in transfer fees - but wasn't it the losses he oversaw that necessitated those sales? And what impact have those monies had on the debt - it actually rose in the last accounts! Let's not forget the Club were actually fined by HMRC for sub-standard book-keeping, too, yet the bloke who supposedly admitted struggling with figures remains in situ. The mind really does boggle.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now: Dave Allen has been, for the most part, fantastic for Chesterfield Football Club. He delivered a virtual rebirth of our club. Unfortunately he's appointed characters who're destroying that progress. Worse still it would appear he's become at best indifferent, his only real ambition recouping loans regardless of the impact that has on the fanbase, and at worst palpably hostile to our concerns. It's not too late; he situation can be reversed. However it's gonna take decisive and immediate action which embraces the punters' wishes. In 1999 the equally obstinate and strong minded Norton Lea refused to do that which led to a near extinction episode in our history. Please don't repeat that episode Mr Allen.

The irony here is that Alan's removal was a precursor to the change in financial approach to the running of the club that we have seen, that has led to many of the recent issues that have been fully discussed on this board. It's worth considering what was the objective of the alleged smear campaign that was conducted at the time?

[For your eyes only]

MDCCCLXVI, on 26 June 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Clearly the last eighteen or so months have been a PR disaster for Chesterfield Football Club.

Huge losses; selling players; losing a successful and popular manager; appointing a failed and unwanted replacement; late and questionable signings; a mid-season sacking; a relegation battle; the debt continuing to rise despite record receipts; Turner and Sutcliffe; PPP; Bingham; a litany of negative media stories; banning the DT; the exit of lifelong Spireites; recruiting a hugely controversial player; sponsors pulling out; shambolic treatment of the Moss family...

..meanwhile statements released to address these issues merely added to the doubt, distrust and derision.

Something has to change.

Very good post. I am quite astonished, that anyone, fan, staff member current or ex employee, could get from the catalogue of actions that the fans have created a 'them and us' situation.
Yes people on here have vented, yes people on here have openly discussed these things, but people need to ask themselves would they rather all of this happen, and no-one said a damn thing about it?
No-one care enough to say what the hell is going on in there? No-one have the balls to say hang on a minute this isn't good enough?!

Things do need to change. In order for them to change the people creating the drama, problems, mistrust, lies, and questionable actions need to change.
Shooting the messenger is not the answer.
Blaming the messenger is not the answer.
This board is full of symptoms as a result of actions. The cause needs to be changed!
How do the fans change things?
We do not have the authority to step in physically and change anything. Only stop attending matches, as a club can only thrive with a loyal attending fan base after all.
No customers = no income.
But the fans do have a voice, they can question things, they can say this isn't good enough. And I hope they continue.
Until someone in charge admits incompetence, takes responsibility and says we are human we've made a mistake and apologises, how does the average fans trust be earned back.
Short answer is it can't, and it won't.
The fans, staff, ex staff, are all victims of a senior management that simply do not care enough to do differently. It's business to them.
But in business, rule number one is..."look after your customer"
They would do well to remember that.

[DIFH]

For your eyes only, on 29 June 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Very good post. I am quite astonished, that anyone, fan, staff member current or ex employee, could get from the catalogue of actions that the fans have created a 'them and us' situation.
Yes people on here have vented, yes people on here have openly discussed these things, but people need to ask themselves would they rather all of this happen, and no-one said a damn thing about it?
No-one care enough to say what the hell is going on in there? No-one have the balls to say hang on a minute this isn't good enough?!

Things do need to change. In order for them to change the people creating the drama, problems, mistrust, lies, and questionable actions need to change.
Shooting the messenger is not the answer.
Blaming the messenger is not the answer.
This board is full of symptoms as a result of actions. The cause needs to be changed!
How do the fans change things?
We do not have the authority to step in physically and change anything. Only stop attending matches, as a club can only thrive with a loyal attending fan base after all.
No customers = no income.
But the fans do have a voice, they can question things, they can say this isn't good enough. And I hope they continue.
Until someone in charge admits incompetence, takes responsibility and says we are human we've made a mistake and apologises, how does the average fans trust be earned back.
Short answer is it can't, and it won't.
The fans, staff, ex staff, are all victims of a senior management that simply do not care enough to do differently. It's business to them.
But in business, rule number one is..."look after your customer"
They would do well to remember that.

They know we are a captive audience and CFC is the common denominator which we are all hooked into. The smug attitude that we can't go elsewhere for our football 'fix' of cfc seems to breed an indifference on their part where they don't have to respond to anything.