[dim view]

Spireite-Karl, on 12 November 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

(his football on the whole isn't the prettiest though).

The 'hoofball' tag was nonsense. How would our only ever present, Jayo, benefit from that tactic?. The 'turgid' tag, who knows?. Nobody knows what it means. The 'disorganised' tag was accurate. That problem has hopefully now been put to bed.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dim view, on 12 November 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

The 'hoofball' tag was nonsense. How would our only ever present, Jayo, benefit from that tactic?. The 'turgid' tag, who knows?. Nobody knows what it means. The 'disorganised' tag was accurate. That problem has hopefully now been put to bed.

David James effectively used it, asking DS why, after the the first 10 minutes we resorted to the long ball. DS's answer of course was it was down to the opposition pressing us all over the pitch. I would add the wind was not conducive to playing better football neither.

However lets see if we play more like the first ten minutes of Monday's match on Saturday. The second goal was the best worked goal this season so far.

As you know, I have my doubts we we will. But will be interesting to see.
At least it was comforting today to hear DS say there was a lot of Monday's match he wasn't happy with.

[Skywalker]

I was impressed by Deano on Monday night. Said the right things before and after the games. The gameplan and tactics were good but most importantly he made sure the players attitude was spot on. The players he has signed are now starting to show consistently good form.

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 12 November 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

At least it was comforting today to hear DS say there was a lot of Monday's match he wasn't happy with.

Yep. It was 'see the game out' tactics, but for 80 minutes. I was particularly disappointed with Gboly but maybe I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that DS told him to keep them stretched, but nobody gave him the ball. Sooner or later the knack of understanding positional forrad and defensive play has got to sink in or he'll not get a game. Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh.

[The Peoples Champion]

lindave, on 12 November 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

He's been motm for me in 2 out of the last 3 games and he's looking better with every game.

Best player on pitch against Fleetwood imo

[dtp]

Spire-ite, on 12 November 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

You are missing the trick, IF we had Improved our team from last season, with the state of this league this year, we would more than likely, be sitting at the top of the league!
But we didn't, and we're not.

With the players we lost it would have been difficult to improve our team with immediate effect for anybody.

Seventeen teams that were in this division last season remain in it. Wigan, with their massive parachute payments, replaced Bristol City, Millwall & Blackpool replaced Preston & MKD and at the other end the 4 teams coming up are hardly weaker than the ones relegated out - I'm not with this "the state of the league this year" business nor that "the league is weaker". Nobody has put up any strong arguments to support these statements either just used them as general swipes at how we are doing so far.

Equally, I might throw into the pot that "with the state of the league" and the talent in our settled squad PC seriously underachieved last season and only sneaked into the playoffs, were we were abysmal, and were 20 points behind 4th place.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dtp, on 13 November 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

With the players we lost it would have been difficult to improve our team with immediate effect for anybody.

Seventeen teams that were in this division last season remain in it. Wigan, with their massive parachute payments, replaced Bristol City, Millwall & Blackpool replaced Preston & MKD and at the other end the 4 teams coming up are hardly weaker than the ones relegated out - I'm not with this "the state of the league this year" business nor that "the league is weaker". Nobody has put up any strong arguments to support these statements either just used them as general swipes at how we are doing so far.

Equally, I might throw into the pot that "with the state of the league" and the talent in our settled squad PC seriously underachieved last season and only sneaked into the playoffs, were we were abysmal, and were 20 points behind 4th place.

Difference already is that the top four teams in the table at this stage last season were Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Swindon, four of the biggest spending sides in the league.
This season, of the teams you list, from what we know, I would think only Wigan have a wage bill to match the ones of the four above from last season. Swindon have pulled in their horns substantially, Blackpool's owners have historically taken out money (as dividends, salaries, not loan repayments) not put it in, and Millwall on paper look a nothing side.
Low spending sides like Walsall, Gillingam Burton occupying the top three places tells us a lot. You choose to ignore this, some of us don't. As you say no one can absolutely prove one way or another,

[alho]

lindave, on 12 November 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

He's been motm for me in 2 out of the last 3 games and he's looking better with every game.

Totally agree,he was brilliant at Fleetwood and should only get better with more games

[brianclose]

60s 70s Spireite, on 13 November 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

Difference already is that the top four teams in the table at this stage last season were Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Swindon, four of the biggest spending sides in the league.
This season, of the teams you list, from what we know, I would think only Wigan have a wage bill to match the ones of the four above from last season. Swindon have pulled in their horns substantially, Blackpool's owners have historically taken out money (as dividends, salaries, not loan repayments) not put it in, and Millwall on paper look a nothing side.
Low spending sides like Walsall, Gillingam Burton occupying the top three places tells us a lot. You choose to ignore this, some of us don't. As you say no one can absolutely prove one way or another,

Wigan should have loads of cash and Millwall wont be short either - they have both just underperformed and will both be up there at the end. Sheff U are massively underperforming also. Burton have the first season optimism and an inspiring manager, Gillingham are carrying on where they left off last year. Walsall are the main surprise but they do have one of the best strikers in the league and lots of exciting young midfielders.

[60s 70s Spireite]

brianclose, on 13 November 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Wigan should have loads of cash and Millwall wont be short either - they have both just underperformed and will both be up there at the end. Sheff U are massively underperforming also. Burton have the first season optimism and an inspiring manager, Gillingham are carrying on where they left off last year. Walsall are the main surprise but they do have one of the best strikers in the league and lots of exciting young midfielders.

Last accounts filed for Millwall showed a loss of £12M with a balance sheet deficit of £20M, which was supported by loan notes of £20M. Repayments on these loan notes have yet to start, they are due to start in 2016. In my book that should read 'short' of cash.

[brianclose]

60s 70s Spireite, on 13 November 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Last accounts filed for Millwall showed a loss of £12M with a balance sheet deficit of £20M, which was supported by loan notes of £20M. Repayments on these loan notes have yet to start, they are due to start in 2016. In my book that should read 'short' of cash.

But they are still spending like they have the money - Steve Morison and Carlos Edwards wont come cheap. And they've managed to keep most of the squad they had in the Championship.

This post has been edited by brianclose: 13 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

[JonB]

brianclose, on 13 November 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

But they are still spending like they have the money - Steve Morison and Carlos Edwards wont come cheap. And they've managed to keep most of the squad they had in the Championship.

Didnt they spend a decent amount to sign Lee Gregory from Halifax as well when folk were saying we should be getting him?

[Goku]

dtp, on 13 November 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

With the players we lost it would have been difficult to improve our team with immediate effect for anybody.

Seventeen teams that were in this division last season remain in it. Wigan, with their massive parachute payments, replaced Bristol City, Millwall & Blackpool replaced Preston & MKD and at the other end the 4 teams coming up are hardly weaker than the ones relegated out - I'm not with this "the state of the league this year" business nor that "the league is weaker". Nobody has put up any strong arguments to support these statements either just used them as general swipes at how we are doing so far.

Equally, I might throw into the pot that "with the state of the league" and the talent in our settled squad PC seriously underachieved last season and only sneaked into the playoffs, were we were abysmal, and were 20 points behind 4th place.

How can one support the statement with any evidence? It's each individual's opinion based on what they've seen in front of them so far at live matches.

[Tha Knows...]

60s 70s Spireite, on 13 November 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

Difference already is that the top four teams in the table at this stage last season were Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Swindon, four of the biggest spending sides in the league.
This season, of the teams you list, from what we know, I would think only Wigan have a wage bill to match the ones of the four above from last season. Swindon have pulled in their horns substantially, Blackpool's owners have historically taken out money (as dividends, salaries, not loan repayments) not put it in, and Millwall on paper look a nothing side.
Low spending sides like Walsall, Gillingam Burton occupying the top three places tells us a lot. You choose to ignore this, some of us don't. As you say no one can absolutely prove one way or another,

It tells us that there isn't as much quality at the top end of the division, and nothing more.

[lindave]

The Peoples Champion, on 12 November 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Best player on pitch against Fleetwood imo

Agreed.

[Stents]

Spire-Power, on 13 November 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

It tells us that there isn't as much quality at the top end of the division, and nothing more.

Just because they haven't spent a lot of money doesn't necessarily mean they haven't got quality.

There is no guaranteed positive correlation between the two.

[Tha Knows...]

Stents, on 13 November 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

Just because they haven't spent a lot of money doesn't necessarily mean they haven't got quality.

There is no guaranteed positive correlation between the two.

I didn't say there was such a correlation but I can't describe Burton as a quality side, can you? Hard working and well organised is my opinion of them. And I have doubts about Walsall too. Wigan will win it and I still think Sheff u and Coventry will not be far behind.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 13 November 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

With the players we lost it would have been difficult to improve our team with immediate effect for anybody.

Seventeen teams that were in this division last season remain in it. Wigan, with their massive parachute payments, replaced Bristol City, Millwall & Blackpool replaced Preston & MKD and at the other end the 4 teams coming up are hardly weaker than the ones relegated out - I'm not with this "the state of the league this year" business nor that "the league is weaker". Nobody has put up any strong arguments to support these statements either just used them as general swipes at how we are doing so far.

Equally, I might throw into the pot that "with the state of the league" and the talent in our settled squad PC seriously underachieved last season and only sneaked into the playoffs, were we were abysmal, and were 20 points behind 4th place.

How good we are or this league is can only be in the eye of the beholder, 'dtp'.

And for every alleged attempt to detract from what the current manager has achieved there's another seeking to praise it.

I guess one way of judging is to balance the squad's league position in budget terms with where it actually finished. Given Turner revealed our's was the fourteenth best funded yet we made the play offs Cook significantly overachieved. It'll interesting to perform the same comparison this time next year.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

We also welcome back one of the good guys tomorrow, Dean Holden.

A bloke that approached every game like it was his last.

[dtp]

MDCCCLXVI, on 13 November 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

How good we are or this league is can only be in the eye of the beholder, 'dtp'.

And for every alleged attempt to detract from what the current manager has achieved there's another seeking to praise it.

I guess one way of judging is to balance the squad's league position in budget terms with where it actually finished. Given Turner revealed our's was the fourteenth best funded yet we made the play offs Cook significantly overachieved. It'll interesting to perform the same comparison this time next year.

Chris, there is a very short list of clubs in our division that have lost £3 million worth of players in the last 12 months.

Like a fair few posters I feel we would have started the season with a better team if we had kept at least half these players.

Whatever the budget is compared to last season none of our replacement players cost anything like the fees received for the departing ones and we are perhaps carrying a few extra players as we are now running a reserve team.

However, it seems under PC there was a budget but, also, there was an expensive bonus system so should we actually be comparing actual players payroll costs for the season or just the starting price/budget. Then, do we add in the costs of the managers entourage the size of which was way beyond my comprehension under PC?

After all, we are talking about numbers we will never know but what we do know, whatever the style of play, it is a results based business - for instance, last season, I thought we were more pleasing on the eye than Preston but, guess what, I know whose position I would have sooner have been in at the end of the season and now.

This post has been edited by dtp: 13 November 2015 - 08:21 PM