[dtp]

Mr Mercury, on 01 November 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I think that's probably a fair point that, Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Swindon, apart it's pretty similar to last year with no real stand out teams like last season. I think Bristol City are the real surprise in the division above, really struggling.

Agreed, but I would argue that there are 24 teams in the league and 7 have either gone up or down being replaced with those promoted from league 2 and those relegated from the championship. Just facts I know but 17 teams are still in the same division- so no change there then.

Now to me Wigan should be a match for Bristol with the finances available to them, Millwall for Preston and Blackpool are a typical league 1 side replacing MK who have been a typical league 1 side.

At the other end the promoted teams were Burton, Bury, Southend and Shrewsbury replacing Orient, Notts County, Crawley and Yeovil. The promoted teams are certainly doing better, so far, in the higher division than the relegated teams are in the lower division - in fact, 3 of the relegated teams from the, so called stronger league last season are in the lower reaches of the lower league.

[metallilad]

CFC91, on 01 November 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

It does as many on here myself included are full Of comparisons between Saunders and Cook and their differing styles. So if we can compare the two to criticise then we can do the same to find positives.

Made a late call to go yesterday, the temptation of a few ales in Blackpool swung it and bar the tram back from Fleetwood it was a good day. Lots of town missed the game and stayed in Blackpool but they missed a decent performance. Herd and Morsy controlled the game, and O'Shea was very good too! Saw a few decent bits from Fleetwood fans on our play, "Pass Pass pass..great to watch" was the pick and we did look good on the ball without doing a lot with it, I'd imagine we had 60% possession yesterday, albeit a lot of it in our own half. If we can up the tempo and find a little more incision going forward we would carve teams like Fleetwood to bits. Going to miss Morsy so much though.

What was the problem with the tram?

[Half Full]

It does as many on here myself included are full Of comparisons between Saunders and Cook and their differing styles. So if we can compare the two to criticise then we can do the same to find positives.

Made a late call to go yesterday, the temptation of a few ales in Blackpool swung it and bar the tram back from Fleetwood it was a good day. Lots of town missed the game and stayed in Blackpool but they missed a decent performance. Herd and Morsy controlled the game, and O'Shea was very good too! Saw a few decent bits from Fleetwood fans on our play, "Pass Pass pass..great to watch" was the pick and we did look good on the ball without doing a lot with it, I'd imagine we had 60% possession yesterday, albeit a lot of it in our own half. If we can up the tempo and find a little more incision going forward we would carve teams like Fleetwood to bits. Going to miss Morsy so much though.

Agree it was a decent performance. Herd man of the match for me really beginning to look a good signing. Works well with Morsy and it will be a shame if we lose one (or possibly both if Herds contact not extended) in the New Year. I think we are beginning to see the development of a decent first team. Lee has been outstanding, Evett and Raglan look solid and Wood sounds useful. Jones playing well and Drew is getting better as he gets fitter. Morsy and Herd robust and influential. SEB doing what he is paid for and taking the chances and putting himself about during the game. His pairing with Novak looks like it might pay dividends. I'm also impressed with the improvement and contributions from O'Shea and Gardner, in particular the former. We are also so much better from dead balls particularly the attacking ones. When we played the ball through midfield yesterday we looked a really useful side. Some of the Cook era interplay but with a focus on getting the ball forward and into the box which we did lack at times last season.
Still too many long high balls up to the forwards and the bench does not look strong enough to cover all areas. Good to see the younger players getting the opportunity but with the exception of Raglan I'm not convinced any are yet good enough to start. Credit must go to Saunders for much of this. To say otherwise is really churlish. As always the final league table will tell the truth but I'm beginning to see us looking like a decent side. Still work to do but going in the right direction

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

mattthespireite, on 31 October 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

Lol! Just proves ya know fuc all old man and your Constant moaning and your 'look at me I know more than our manager ' attitude is getting embarrassing and really ought to stop as it's getting boring. Can't you just wait 90 mins before giving us your 'expert' pre match warnings? Or is it that you just can't wait to slag Saunders and his players off?

How can anyone give pre-match warnings after the game?

Not really thought it through, have you Matt lad.

And I'd point you in the direction of my 'Ghosts Of Seasons Past' thread when it comes to my thoughts on the Manager.

So who couldn't wait to post his petty little slaggery?

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 01 November 2015 - 12:18 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

Spire-Heights said:

1446338527[/url]' post='1157825']
It means compared to last season, after 16 games, we are doing better this season, points gained wise. If we are doing better points wise after 46 games, we will be all very happy and DS will have done an amazing job first year in the job here.

Yes, you can look at it like that. But also that's a bit like counting chickens before they hatch.
We could win the next X games on the spin, play scintillating football or we may not.
At the moment, as someone else pointed out in another thread, not winning and producing convincing performances at home are crucial to the fans. I agree.

[Spire-Heights]

a kick in the balls, on 01 November 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Yes, you can look at it like that. But also that's a bit like counting chickens before they hatch.
We could win the next X games on the spin, play scintillating football or we may not.
At the moment, as someone else pointed out in another thread, not winning and producing convincing performances at home are crucial to the fans. I agree.

What's crucial is that we score one more than our opposition and we did this yesterday. Offer me that we will win all our remaining games 1-0, but the football won't be better than we've witnessed so far this season, I will happily take it.

This post has been edited by Spire-Heights: 01 November 2015 - 12:33 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

CFC91 said:

1446375146[/url]' post='1157842']
It does as many on here myself included are full Of comparisons between Saunders and Cook and their differing styles. So if we can compare the two to criticise then we can do the same to find positives.

Made a late call to go yesterday, the temptation of a few ales in Blackpool swung it and bar the tram back from Fleetwood it was a good day. Lots of town missed the game and stayed in Blackpool but they missed a decent performance. Herd and Morsy controlled the game, and O'Shea was very good too! Saw a few decent bits from Fleetwood fans on our play, "Pass Pass pass..great to watch" was the pick and we did look good on the ball without doing a lot with it, I'd imagine we had 60% possession yesterday, albeit a lot of it in our own half. If we can up the tempo and find a little more incision going forward we would carve teams like Fleetwood to bits. Going to miss Morsy so much though.

You sort of answer your own question, the big comparison between the two men/sides seems to be the "style". Johnny no goals could have gained a similar number of points, but would we be impressed?
Our home form isn't great. And our home performances have not been great. Counting points this early in the season? well it's a comparison isn't it, but is it what we are really looking for?

[Wooden Spoon]

Spire-Heights said:

1446381168[/url]' post='1157855']
What's crucial is that we score one more than our opposition and we did this yesterday. Offer me that we will win all our remaining games 1-0, but the football won't be better than we've witnessed so far this season, I will happily take it.

if you offered a johnny no goals 1-0 win or a Paul Cook 3-3 draw, what would fans take? I suspect a good number would take the entertainment value, and a good number would prefer the points.

[Spire-Heights]

a kick in the balls, on 01 November 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

if you offered a johnny no goals 1-0 win or a Paul Cook 3-3 draw, what would fans take? I suspect a good number would take the entertainment value, and a good number would prefer the points.

I'll take the points, they win prizes.

[Tha Knows...]

a kick in the balls, on 01 November 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

You sort of answer your own question, the big comparison between the two men/sides seems to be the "style". Johnny no goals could have gained a similar number of points, but would we be impressed?
Our home form isn't great. And our home performances have not been great. Counting points this early in the season? well it's a comparison isn't it, but is it what we are really looking for?

It's not as if we were blowing teams away in L1 under Cook but when we were good we were very good. Under Saunders the style of football is not as pretty but neither is it hoofball. Unfortunately when it is bad it is very bad. This side is very much a work a progress and I won't be judging DS yet. Sadly some had made their minds up too early and will find it difficult to back down if we do well this season. That's their problem. A lot probably depends on whether Morsy sees the season out with us. And, if that happens and DS is allowed to make further signings, we could become a strong side at this level, playing attractive football along the way, as we saw against Southend.

[dtp]

a kick in the balls, on 01 November 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

if you offered a johnny no goals 1-0 win or a Paul Cook 3-3 draw, what would fans take? I suspect a good number would take the entertainment value, and a good number would prefer the points.

In a 3-3 draw (I can't bring one to mind though) we'd be moaning about our poor defending and discussing the fact possession doesn't always win matches.

In a JD 1-0 three points in the bag win - had the message board been available then, like now, it would have been very quiet until we lost our next game.

[Tha Knows...]

Half Full, on 01 November 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

It does as many on here myself included are full Of comparisons between Saunders and Cook and their differing styles. So if we can compare the two to criticise then we can do the same to find positives.

Made a late call to go yesterday, the temptation of a few ales in Blackpool swung it and bar the tram back from Fleetwood it was a good day. Lots of town missed the game and stayed in Blackpool but they missed a decent performance. Herd and Morsy controlled the game, and O'Shea was very good too! Saw a few decent bits from Fleetwood fans on our play, "Pass Pass pass..great to watch" was the pick and we did look good on the ball without doing a lot with it, I'd imagine we had 60% possession yesterday, albeit a lot of it in our own half. If we can up the tempo and find a little more incision going forward we would carve teams like Fleetwood to bits. Going to miss Morsy so much though.

Agree it was a decent performance. Herd man of the match for me really beginning to look a good signing. Works well with Morsy and it will be a shame if we lose one (or possibly both if Herds contact not extended) in the New Year. I think we are beginning to see the development of a decent first team. Lee has been outstanding, Evett and Raglan look solid and Wood sounds useful. Jones playing well and Drew is getting better as he gets fitter. Morsy and Herd robust and influential. SEB doing what he is paid for and taking the chances and putting himself about during the game. His pairing with Novak looks like it might pay dividends. I'm also impressed with the improvement and contributions from O'Shea and Gardner, in particular the former. We are also so much better from dead balls particularly the attacking ones. When we played the ball through midfield yesterday we looked a really useful side. Some of the Cook era interplay but with a focus on getting the ball forward and into the box which we did lack at times last season.
Still too many long high balls up to the forwards and the bench does not look strong enough to cover all areas. Good to see the younger players getting the opportunity but with the exception of Raglan I'm not convinced any are yet good enough to start. Credit must go to Saunders for much of this. To say otherwise is really churlish. As always the final league table will tell the truth but I'm beginning to see us looking like a decent side. Still work to do but going in the right direction

Excellent post HF, in other words I agree with it! The potential is clearly there with seb, Novak and herd. We don't know yet if the main issues were fitness and the potential will be fulfilled, or if they are no longer capable of delivering the goods on a consistent basis. The same could be said of Drew. Time will tell but regardless of opinions about seb he is scoring goals. When DS took over he called it right - all we needed was some better strikers. And his talk of getting the ball to them a bit quicker was not an issue for me as we did overplay a bit under cook. Hopefully he has found the strikers, but of course since then he has lost roberts, ryan, darikwa and clucas. That's a lot of quality to replace.It's fair to say DS knew the better half of his first XI would be leaving and he should have replaced them earlier. It could turn out that his gamble on waiting on unfit, higher level players will be a winner. Whether the O'Neil signing will be a success, I hope so but have my doubts ... then again, was every Cook signing a winner?

This post has been edited by Spire-Power: 01 November 2015 - 01:21 PM

[Mr Mercury]

dtp, on 01 November 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

In a 3-3 draw (I can't bring one to mind though) we'd be moaning about our poor defending and discussing the fact possession doesn't always win matches.

In a JD 1-0 three points in the bag win - had the message board been available then, like now, it would have been very quiet until we lost our next game.

Away at Preston in the league last season after being 3-0 down we absolutely crucified them, came away thinking we'd won the World Cup! Also many 1-0 wins under JD were to a point you thought, "why did I bother" but ultimately it is about the points!

[metallilad]

a kick in the balls, on 01 November 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

if you offered a johnny no goals 1-0 win or a Paul Cook 3-3 draw, what would fans take? I suspect a good number would take the entertainment value, and a good number would prefer the points.

I'd choose the Paul Cook match, but if Paul Cook was to come to me with a pint of John Smiths in his hand with a smile asking me to watch his 3-3 draw, full of entertaining football with an end product of myself along with my son walking out feeling like we've just witnessed the greatest game of football ever taken place.............Id say Oy! Cooky! Noo!
Don't tell me the score! I wanna watch the match with an element of not knowing what's going to happen, not expecting something to happen!

[metallilad]

Spire-Power, on 01 November 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Excellent post HF, in other words I agree with it! The potential is clearly there with seb, Novak and herd. We don't know yet if the main issues were fitness and the potential will be fulfilled, or if they are no longer capable of delivering the goods on a consistent basis. The same could be said of Drew. Time will tell but regardless of opinions about seb he is scoring goals. When DS took over he called it right - all we needed was some better strikers. And his talk of getting the ball to them a bit quicker was not an issue for me as we did overplay a bit under cook. Hopefully he has found the strikers, but of course since then he has lost roberts, ryan, darikwa and clucas. That's a lot of quality to replace.It's fair to say DS knew the better half of his first XI would be leaving and he should have replaced them earlier. It could turn out that his gamble on waiting on unfit, higher level players will be a winner. Whether the O'Neil signing will be a success, I hope so but have my doubts ... then again, was every Cook signing a winner?

How many of Cooks signings never made any contribution or not made something of themselves though?

This post has been edited by metallilad: 01 November 2015 - 01:41 PM

[The Black Triangle]

[quote name='dtp' timestamp='1446382938' post='1157860']

I would prefer a 3-3 away at PNE to a 1-0 John Duncan

This post has been edited by The black triangle: 01 November 2015 - 01:48 PM

[Maddog Tannen]

Cant see the point comparing points tallies from this season to others....... for me its about being entertained..... would i want to watch this style of football every week - definately not!!. Yes we won yesterday but again was dire to watch as a spectator.

[Wooden Spoon]

Stokespireite, on 01 November 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Cant see the point comparing points tallies from this season to others....... for me its about being entertained..... would i want to watch this style of football every week - definately not!!. Yes we won yesterday but again was dire to watch as a spectator.

That is it in a nut shell. Although its your opinion and others may feel it was a decent game.

Winning games is important obviously, but so is being entertained and enjoying the game.

Obviously points make prizes, but with the style of football seen since the move to the new stadium, fans demand much much more than a dour 1-0 win.

Which is why I said comparing points now and points at the same time last season means nowt.

[JonB]

Stokespireite, on 01 November 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Cant see the point comparing points tallies from this season to others....... for me its about being entertained..... would i want to watch this style of football every week - definately not!!. Yes we won yesterday but again was dire to watch as a spectator.

So you'd rather we lost & got relegated but played pretty stuff?

[Goku]

Well I don't think that's quite what he said