[Cartman]

I've read plenty on here with people defending Saunders saying the board sold him down the river etc etc and we can't blame the current form on him

I have also read plenty on here saying his football is poor, his recruitment is poor and he shouldn't be after dinner speaking etc etc

We have had enough games to form opinions I reckon so how should we judge him?

It is probably unfair to judge him based on a direct comparison with Paul Cook, Cook's football was excellent in the main, the players clicked and we got to the play offs (still had a few poor runs under Cook)

However, I do not think it is right to simply blame the board and exonerate Saunders of any responsibility for our current situation.

Saunders must have known certain players were off when he took the job, he had all summer to get replacements and has had time after each departure to find someone new. He has been backed by the board with a decent budget, now I am not sure I believe it is bigger than last seasons, but SEB, Novak, Angel, Herd, O'Neil did not come in for nothing and will all be on a decent wage.

Saunders has gone away totally from trying to find gems from the leagues below or young and hungry players from the league above (only O'Neil could fit that category and he has not pulled up many trees) and started to try and sign 'names' such as SEB and Herd - now Cook did this when needed, Roberts and Ryan were established league players when we signed them.

Saunders may have been unlucky with injuries to Novak and Angel, who are possibly his best two signings so far, but the fact remains that he had the summer to do something about replacing the players who left and did very little, and now it is plain as day what effect that has had on the team

We are now relying on players such as Gardner and O'Shea who were never really 'key' players under Cook and are having to blood youth such as Simons and Mani in the hope they offer us some sort of goal threat!

Saunders talks about possession against Gillingham, this means nothing if there is no threat to the opposition!

I wanted to give Saunders time and hope he can turn it around as I do not think Allen will sack him, but the style of play, the squad and Saunders interviews do not fill me with confidence - and I feel the blame for our current form should be mainly at Saunders door!

Couldn't care less what he does in his time off mind, if he wants to do 5 after dinner speaking gigs a week, who cares - I just care about how he gets the team playing

Similarly, I couldn't have cared less what Cook got up to out of business hours, he got a team to play well and delivered exciting, winning football - which is what it is all about at the end of the day

[Trigger]

We're probably never gonna see the cook style of play again and that's the bitter pill. I see saunders' signings as a quick fix while he bloods youngsters around them, how successful they are we can only wait and see but so far it's got nothing on the previous 2 1/2 seasons we've all enjoyed watching.

We need to be signing up and coming players in the clucas mould from now on.

[Westbars Spireite]

Saunders has been backed to bring in replacements. He has brought in half a team of players who were brought in as first team regulars.

So far he's failed with almost everything he's done. In some respects it was a tough gig but he took it knowing what had gone before and how his squad was likely to be weakened through sales.

I'm not normally negative but much as I'd love to see sparks of light in what DS says and does I'm failing to find any.

[metallilad]

The problem is that there is f**k all communication from the club to us supporters. It can come from Mr Allen, Mr Turner or Mr Saunders. Jesus Christ it could come from Jeff Hall if need be but let us know what the plan is. Inform us what is happening and then we'd be more patient with the manager but as it is now we are so fed up with watching the s**t on display and the bo**ocks being fed to us by the club it's bound to rile us into eventually booing and chanting against the manager.
We all earn our money in different ways but we all spend our money inside that ground one thing or another and yet were being disrespected by the powers that be. What ever direction we're going in lets do it together. If we need to take a step back to take two forward then so be it but stop treating us like bl**dy kids because when all is said & done everything that is being done at that club is for the supporters so we keep spending our money but if we're being disrespected constantly like we are then it won't be long before the incomings are going to be greatly reduced.
It's time the powers that be woke up.

[Paragon of Virtue]

Harshly

[Goku]

With great prejudice and malice

[dim view]

Westbars Spireite, on 12 October 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Saunders has been backed to bring in replacements. He has brought in half a team of players who were brought in as first team regulars.

He has also admitted that he needs 2 more players. The more time that elapses between him saying it and them arriving, the more folk will think there's summat up.

[calvin plummers socks]

metallilad, on 12 October 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

The problem is that there is f**k all communication from the club to us supporters. It can come from Mr Allen, Mr Turner or Mr Saunders. Jesus Christ it could come from Jeff Hall if need be but let us know what the plan is. Inform us what is happening and then we'd be more patient with the manager but as it is now we are so fed up with watching the s**t on display and the bo**ocks being fed to us by the club it's bound to rile us into eventually booing and chanting against the manager.
We all earn our money in different ways but we all spend our money inside that ground one thing or another and yet were being disrespected by the powers that be. What ever direction we're going in lets do it together. If we need to take a step back to take two forward then so be it but stop treating us like bl**dy kids because when all is said & done everything that is being done at that club is for the supporters so we keep spending our money but if we're being disrespected constantly like we are then it won't be long before the incomings are going to be greatly reduced.
It's time the powers that be woke up.

You could ask him at the Q&A bit of his after dinner speech the night before Fleetwood away ;-)

[Tora Tora Tora]

Goku, on 12 October 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

With great prejudice and malice

If I was his judge then I would place a black cloth on the top of my head. He has no redeeming evidence to save him. Got to go!

[fishini]

Cartman, on 12 October 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

I've read plenty on here with people defending Saunders saying the board sold him down the river etc etc and we can't blame the current form on him

I have also read plenty on here saying his football is poor, his recruitment is poor and he shouldn't be after dinner speaking etc etc

We have had enough games to form opinions I reckon so how should we judge him?

It is probably unfair to judge him based on a direct comparison with Paul Cook, Cook's football was excellent in the main, the players clicked and we got to the play offs (still had a few poor runs under Cook)

However, I do not think it is right to simply blame the board and exonerate Saunders of any responsibility for our current situation.

Saunders must have known certain players were off when he took the job, he had all summer to get replacements and has had time after each departure to find someone new. He has been backed by the board with a decent budget, now I am not sure I believe it is bigger than last seasons, but SEB, Novak, Angel, Herd, O'Neil did not come in for nothing and will all be on a decent wage.

Saunders has gone away totally from trying to find gems from the leagues below or young and hungry players from the league above (only O'Neil could fit that category and he has not pulled up many trees) and started to try and sign 'names' such as SEB and Herd - now Cook did this when needed, Roberts and Ryan were established league players when we signed them.

Saunders may have been unlucky with injuries to Novak and Angel, who are possibly his best two signings so far, but the fact remains that he had the summer to do something about replacing the players who left and did very little, and now it is plain as day what effect that has had on the team

We are now relying on players such as Gardner and O'Shea who were never really 'key' players under Cook and are having to blood youth such as Simons and Mani in the hope they offer us some sort of goal threat!

Saunders talks about possession against Gillingham, this means nothing if there is no threat to the opposition!

I wanted to give Saunders time and hope he can turn it around as I do not think Allen will sack him, but the style of play, the squad and Saunders interviews do not fill me with confidence - and I feel the blame for our current form should be mainly at Saunders door!

Couldn't care less what he does in his time off mind, if he wants to do 5 after dinner speaking gigs a week, who cares - I just care about how he gets the team playing

Similarly, I couldn't have cared less what Cook got up to out of business hours, he got a team to play well and delivered exciting, winning football - which is what it is all about at the end of the day

How would I judge him? Nice bloke. Boring bloke. Yes man. Inept clueless manager. So he ticks all our inept, clueless, boring and unambitious CEO's and Chairmans boxes

[spireitetoo]

He should be hung drawn amd quartered for crimes against football

[azul]

Goku, on 12 October 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

With great prejudice and malice

Well that is a surprise, unlike you

[azul]

after 2.5/3 years

listen up, he's told you all, that's how long it takes to judge a new manager

[Brimington Barry]

Quote

Saunders must have known certain players were off when he took the job, he had all summer to get replacements and has had time after each departure to find someone new. He has been backed by the board with a decent budget, now I am not sure I believe it is bigger than last seasons, but SEB, Novak, Angel, Herd, O'Neil did not come in for nothing and will all be on a decent wage.

Of course, it could be that Saunders identified different transfer targets and they wouldn't (for whatever reason) come.

Baz

This post has been edited by Brimington Barry: 12 October 2015 - 08:18 PM

[martatcross]

The players Saunders as bought in and put faith in and gave better contracts have shown little and the person to blame is Saunders the tactics he uses are poor and do not play to the strength of the team. I know he isn't going anywhere because he will be backed by the board but its awful to watch and football should be entertaining and its not

[Johnnyspireite7]

Guilty by association (Send him down before he takes us down!!!!!!)

[Stockholm Spireite]

azul, on 12 October 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

after 2.5/3 years

listen up, he's told you all, that's how long it takes to judge a new manager

Isn't that what Brendan Rodgers said?

To answer the OP, I'd be looking at (in no particular order):

* Results
* Standard of individual play - he said he would add "more tools in the box" to players - has he? That's a reflection on his ability as a coach & manager.
* Standard of team play - he said we would be able to play well and win in a number of different ways - are we? That's a reflection on his ability as a coach & manager.
* His consistency and objectivity in post-game analysis - "keep doing what we're doing/we need to change/we have good players here/we need more players/players aren't good enough". That's a reflection on his ability as a coach & manager.
* The ability to pull a team together and move forward. That's a reflection on his ability as a coach & manager.

[Rodney's Moustache]

Brimington Barry, on 12 October 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Of course, it could be that Saunders identified different transfer targets and they wouldn't (for whatever reason) come.

Baz

Or it could be that Saunders had little room to manoeuvre due to lack of funding from the board and that the alleged budget was just another piece of spin.If you are limited to how many players you can bring in then the only option is to give contracts to the likes of Armand and Banks just to fill out the squad

This post has been edited by Rodney's Moustache: 13 October 2015 - 07:24 AM

[ArcticSpireite]

His tactics and style of play appears to be abysmal, his signings have been generally poor, he shows absolutely no motivational skills, slates his own players in the media, interviews are boring and bordering on delusional...

That's my almighty judgement. A few more games of gutless, brainless, tactically inept tripe and I'll want him gone (though I know it won't happen for a while). But not quite yet.

[Yenx]

Like any other manager should be.... on results.
Instead he seems to have been set on because he was (quote) "a nice bloke to have a drink with"