[Mr Mercury]

dtp, on 04 March 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Thought we only paid a notional fee for Gardner.

I got that idea as well!

[rs1978]

a kick in the balls, on 04 March 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Could we really compete with Preston in terms of wages and prestige?

I could be wrong, but didn't Nathan Smith choose us over Preston? If so, I can't imagine he did that because he always had a burning ambition to play for Chesterfield!

[brianclose]

rs1978, on 04 March 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

I could be wrong, but didn't Nathan Smith choose us over Preston? If so, I can't imagine he did that because he always had a burning ambition to play for Chesterfield!

True, but we had all of the left over Craig Davies money burning a hole in our pockets then - he was our marquee summer signing!

[Spireite-Karl]

brianclose, on 04 March 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

True, but we had all of the left over Craig Davies money burning a hole in our pockets then - he was our marquee summer signing!

And we knew we were selling Doyle, so we had the funds in the same manner as above.

The wage thing I can believe and I wouldn't be surprised to see him on anywhere between 3.5 and 6K a week. IF he's on less than the bottom end then I would be saddened if we didn't try to at least match it. In fact, it would give me great heart just to know that we tried our best to land him and would be disillusioned if we weren’t in for him at all.

[Wooden Spoon]

rs1978, on 04 March 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

I could be wrong, but didn't Nathan Smith choose us over Preston? If so, I can't imagine he did that because he always had a burning ambition to play for Chesterfield!

depends on how badly Preston wanted him. If they had really wanted to push the boat out to get him, they could have easily bested our offer.

[Phil V 72]

Spireite-Karl, on 04 March 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

And we knew we were selling Doyle, so we had the funds in the same manner as above.

The wage thing I can believe and I wouldn't be surprised to see him on anywhere between 3.5 and 6K a week. IF he's on less than the bottom end then I would be saddened if we didn't try to at least match it. In fact, it would give me great heart just to know that we tried our best to land him and would be disillusioned if we weren’t in for him at all.

You also have to factor in the fact that even at £3.5K per week, this could create distortions in your wage structure and existing players might have something to say at contract renegotiation time. If you tried to meet the demands of all players, it could take the club over the salary cap.

If we'd have paid £3.5K for Johnson, would Doyle and Morsy have signed contract extensions? One would expect the prospective Higdon transfer was a partial victim of this issue as well.

I'm aware that one point of view is you must speculate to accumulate, but if it fails you have a severe problem, and a wage bill you can't sustain. These are the issues a club has to wrestle with when deciding what to offer in wages. Slow, steady growth within your means versus more ambitious expansion - it's not an easy call to make.

[Mac's Back]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Slow, steady growth within your means versus more ambitious expansion - it's not an easy call to make.

Looking at the club's finances, one might speculate we've chosen slow steady growth beyond our means.

As for Johnson, he'd have filled Ryan's boots quite nicely. And he's left-sided too...

This post has been edited by Mac's Back: 05 March 2015 - 04:08 PM

[Phil V 72]

Mac, on 05 March 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Looking at the club's finances, one might speculate we've chosen slow steady growth beyond our means.

Have we? I haven't seen the finances, have you?

[Mac's Back]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Have we? I haven't seen the finances, have you?

No. But it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that all is far from rosy in the garden. Do you really think otherwise?

This post has been edited by Mac's Back: 05 March 2015 - 04:13 PM

[JonB]

Mac, on 05 March 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Looking at the club's finances, one might speculate we've chosen slow steady growth beyond our means.

As for Johnson, he'd have filled Ryan's boots quite nicely. And he's left-sided too...

Didnt he do better for us further forward in the advanced three rather than a replacement for Morsy or Ryan in the deeper two midfield spots? In fact i seem to remember on here some folk not being very impressed with him initially when he played in that position and only came to show what he really had when he was moved further forward.

[Mac's Back]

JonB, on 05 March 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

Didnt he do better for us further forward in the advanced three rather than a replacement for Morsy or Ryan in the deeper two midfield spots? In fact i seem to remember on here some folk not being very impressed with him initially when he played in that position and only came to show what he really had when he was moved further forward.

Whilst he wouldn't have been a like for like replacement, he was quality when it came to linking midfield and attack. Morsy's right footed so being left sided he would have complemented him in that way.

[Tha Knows...]

Mac, on 05 March 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Whilst he wouldn't have been a like for like replacement, he was quality when it came to linking midfield and attack. Morsy's right footed so being left sided he would have complemented him in that way.

Seems to be where he did well at oldham and Preston after us

[Phil V 72]

Mac, on 05 March 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

No. But it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that all is far from rosy in the garden. Do you really think otherwise?

The simple answer is I don't know.

What evidence of this is there that things aren't rosy? There aren't any winding-up orders, bailiffs at the door, mass redundances (actually just the opposite with the news of Ariyibi sigining a new deal and a new addition to the backroom staff).

The picture I'm getting is that the club is carrying a lot of debt, more than it really wants, and that it wants to reduce the debt to lower the repayments and so player sales and wage structures are an important part of this process. Lots of companies carry a lot of debt, but football is unique in that much of its income is cyclical so cashflow becomes an issue, particularly in the summer.

If when the accounts come out it shows differently, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. Until then, I just can't say.

[Wooden Spoon]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Have we? I haven't seen the finances, have you?

We have lost money for 3 seasons running!!! including more than £1,000,000 last season!!

[Wooden Spoon]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

The simple answer is I don't know.

What evidence of this is there that things aren't rosy? There aren't any winding-up orders, bailiffs at the door, mass redundances (actually just the opposite with the news of Ariyibi sigining a new deal and a new addition to the backroom staff).

The picture I'm getting is that the club is carrying a lot of debt, more than it really wants, and that it wants to reduce the debt to lower the repayments and so player sales and wage structures are an important part of this process. Lots of companies carry a lot of debt, but football is unique in that much of its income is cyclical so cashflow becomes an issue, particularly in the summer.

If when the accounts come out it shows differently, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. Until then, I just can't say.

The picture I`m getting is one of a club that was haemorrhaging money for at least 3 years, including over £1,000,000 in a season of unprecedented success. No one had a handle on this, and debt was rapidly increasing. This season we have sold players which allows us to be able to trade in the black.

[lindo-spireite]

Have we ever made a profit whilst being at the new ground? Seem to recall we did the first season?

This post has been edited by lindo-spireite: 05 March 2015 - 05:14 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

lindo-spireite, on 05 March 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Have we ever made a profit whilst being at the new ground? Seem to recall we did the first season?

we made 80k

I think we made a small profit in the relegation season as well, from the Elton concert and selling JB

[Phil V 72]

a kick in the balls, on 05 March 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

The picture I`m getting is one of a club that was haemorrhaging money for at least 3 years, including over £1,000,000 in a season of unprecedented success. No one had a handle on this, and debt was rapidly increasing. This season we have sold players which allows us to be able to trade in the black.

But selling players is a model for many clubs to sustain themselves isn't it?
I'm still struggling with the notion that a professionally run club is running out of control, but if we make another loss this year, I would want to understand why this is and what's being done to address it.
I repeat, happy to withdraw and concede on this if this years figures don't show an improvement

[Spireite-Karl]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

But selling players is a model for many clubs to sustain themselves isn't it?
I'm still struggling with the notion that a professionally run club is running out of control, but if we make another loss this year, I would want to understand why this is and what's being done to address it.
I repeat, happy to withdraw and concede on this if this years figures don't show an improvement

They've got to show an improvement surely?? Though unless we've made a cracking profit is it really an improvement as you are hinting at? Seeing as we've sold two players for good money for starters, so if we break even without these two sales and a very successful league and cup campaign we'd have lost another great whacking stomp!

[Wooden Spoon]

Phil V 72, on 05 March 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

But selling players is a model for many clubs to sustain themselves isn't it?

Really? I`m glad your not running CFC!!!!!!!!!!!!




If a clubs model is reliant on selling players then its financial suicide. You may have an average squad that doesn't have very much re sale value - where are you then?




Selling players is fine, its part of the game, but it isn't a reliable income stream on which you can run a business. Its a windfall to reduce debts or re invest.




If you expect 7000 fans, then budget for 6800. if that gives you a £1,500,000 then allow £1,450,000 - build in some breathing space and cut your cloth accordingly. If things go better, then you have extra money to use on loan players, in Jan etc. Otherwise if things don't go so well, then you don't make a loss of £1,000,000 you make a small, manageable loss.




I would bet that last season some of the club staff didn't have a clue how much the club was losing, and where it was losing it.