[Spire1986]

Beelzebub, on 11 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

What was? nothing has changed and nothing will. We made the best possible use of the time and resources we had. It wasn't possible to build a ground of the quality we needed at the time we needed it and incorporate standing areas. We are where we are, why not accept the fact. We have a fine ground, enjoy it.

Thats it though, I DONT enjoy it. I am forced to sit down surrounded by people who I dont know when my friends are scattered around the ground because they couldn't get anywhere near. I am rarely able to get a ticket at the back of the kop where those who do stand and sing are. If your half a block away from the centre back of the kop then your surrounded by silent, sitting fans for the majority of the match. I've heard all the C**p before "it doesn't stop you singing" etc, but it does. You look a right ******* trying to sing at the top of your voice on your own, or even in threes and fours.

If you just went around accepting everything then what sort of a mess would you end up in. I cant accept it, its had a massive detrimental impact upon my matchday experience. I also cant believe the selfish attitude others have towards standing at football matches, "I want to sit down therefore everyone else should sit down as well". I have seen people who have bought tickets for the rear of S3 and then kick off when people around are standing. How does it make sense for a couple of people to enter an area where they know people stand and then force a dozen people to sit down? I have seen this happen myself. Its incredibly selfish IMO when they have thousands of other seats to choose from.

Maybe it wasn't feasable at the time to create standing areas on the Moor, although Morcambe and others managed it, but to say nothing will change is very short sighted. Some big clubs are getting behind this and it can only steam-roll. Common sense has to prevail, those who want to sit can sit without being disturbed and those who want to stand can stand and create an atmosphere. It might not happen here but the option should be there for the future.

The clubs who have got behind this campaign deserve a pat on the back for listening to the fans, I hope parliament do the same.

[Spireite S41]

Spire1986, on 11 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Thats it though, I DONT enjoy it. I am forced to sit down surrounded by people who I dont know when my friends are scattered around the ground because they couldn't get anywhere near. I am rarely able to get a ticket at the back of the kop where those who do stand and sing are. If your half a block away from the centre back of the kop then your surrounded by silent, sitting fans for the majority of the match. I've heard all the C**p before "it doesn't stop you singing" etc, but it does. You look a right ******* trying to sing at the top of your voice on your own, or even in threes and fours.

If you just went around accepting everything then what sort of a mess would you end up in. I cant accept it, its had a massive detrimental impact upon my matchday experience. I also cant believe the selfish attitude others have towards standing at football matches, "I want to sit down therefore everyone else should sit down as well". I have seen people who have bought tickets for the rear of S3 and then kick off when people around are standing. How does it make sense for a couple of people to enter an area where they know people stand and then force a dozen people to sit down? I have seen this happen myself. Its incredibly selfish IMO when they have thousands of other seats to choose from.

Maybe it wasn't feasable at the time to create standing areas on the Moor, although Morcambe and others managed it, but to say nothing will change is very short sighted. Some big clubs are getting behind this and it can only steam-roll. Common sense has to prevail, those who want to sit can sit without being disturbed and those who want to stand can stand and create an atmosphere. It might not happen here but the option should be there for the future.

The clubs who have got behind this campaign deserve a pat on the back for listening to the fans, I hope parliament do the same.

Good post...

I only brought a ticket at the back of the Kop just so i could stand. My opinion only of course, but how anyone can enjoy watching football and having a singsong whilst sitting down is beyond me. I've been following this story for a couple of years now and I think public opinion have finally been accepted by those at the top. It will only be a couple of years until we see this type of standing in the championship if not the Premier league.

I cant wait...

[DIFH]

lindave, on 11 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

How would you finance it? Sadly for me I'm past it and by half time on a cold day my knees are wanting to sit down.lol,besides I love where we sit in the West stand on the halfway line.
It would be good if the kop could return to standing only,but I wouldn't have the away fans standing it would be harder to police the likes of Vale or Millers invading the pitch,I don't think home fans would have that mentality if it meant getting the Club into trouble.

Just depends if the standing increases your capacity - for us however a total non starter but as oppossed to filling in the corners I wonder how the costs would compare.

[Happ Hazzard]

I would love to have standing back again, can't see it happening though.

[Wooden Spoon]

Town_Fan, on 11 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

The concrete has to be super strong to cope with the lateral forces of leaning against a barrier, which isn't an issue if you have sod all underneath the stand apart from foundations. If however you want refreshment stands etc then safe standing becomes more expensive than seating, as is my understanding of the situation. My mortally challenged chum might be able to shed more light.

Correct. almost word perfect.

Or barriers would have to built as an integral part of the structural steel work with "counter balance" webs below to counter the force on the barrier, vastly increasing the number of spars required and almost a full rebuild of the stand - and then the concrete around that.

[60s 70s Spireite]

The Hillsborough families say there are 96 reasons not to bring back standing. So it seems not 'everyone' is for it.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Football's moved on, it's now much more accommodating for families, especially at our level.

It's a no from me.

[ArcticSpireite]

I don't understand how anyone can claim that standing at a football match is dangerous (the Hillsborough families e.t.c). It was incompetent policing which led to that disaster. Standing Kops should definitely be brought back into football for the many benefits it adds to the game. Hopefully Town'll see sense and take steps to give us a decent standing Kop, because I'm getting bored of sitting and getting a numb feeling in my buttocks while sat tight-lipped.

This post has been edited by ArcticSpireite: 11 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

[60s 70s Spireite]

ArcticSpireite, on 11 December 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

I don't understand how anyone can claim that standing at a football match is dangerous (the Hillsborough families e.t.c). It was incompetent policing which led to that disaster. Standing Kops should definitely be brought back into football for the many benefits it adds to the game. Hopefully Town'll see sense and take steps to give us a decent standing Kop, because I'm getting bored of sitting and getting a numb feeling in my buttocks while sat tight-lipped.

I see your profile says you are 20. Therefore I doubt whether you ave actually stood in a packed kop. Lifted your feet off the ground for 30 seconds and realised you have dropped 10 yards down the banking. Yes, it may have seen funny at the time, until you thought of those poor souls at Hillsborough, at Ibrox and Burnden Park, having no control of their destiny.
Yes, the ideas shown on the BBC website appear far safer than the old free standing. But that mens heavy investment for a lot of clubs, which is unaffordable.

Moreover the Hillsborough report doesn't just blame the Police, it also blames the Hillsborough ground. A similar thing had nearly happened in the late 50s.

[marlons curtains]

Blimey... 2 years into a ground we could only dream of... and some want it ripping up!

Seriously though, there was an internet review a few years back that put our Kop in the top 10 of best home ends...........IN EUROPE!


I wouldnt argue with that... it could generate an atmosphere on an average Saturday... but for a big Tuesday nighter.... rocking!!

[trickytrevsfanclub]

Don't get me wrong I used to enjoy standing on the Kop and did so for years. I can understand how people miss it. Personally I thought I would but I don't. I actually find that I watch more of the game than I ever did whilst standing. When standing I'd spend most of the game chatting to my mates around me and not concentrating on the match LOL.
On a more serious note I'm older now and have a dodgy leg so standing isn't great for me. Of course if the Kop became standing I'd just move into a seated area, I'd hate it though as I've always watched from behind the goal and its my preffered view. It's all about personal choice really. Just can't see it happening though due to the obvious cost implications.

[Wooden Spoon]

marlons curtains, on 11 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Blimey... 2 years into a ground we could only dream of... and some want it ripping up!

Seriously though, there was an internet review a few years back that put our Kop in the top 10 of best home ends...........IN EUROPE!


I wouldnt argue with that... it could generate an atmosphere on an average Saturday... but for a big Tuesday nighter.... rocking!!

written by a town fan

[60s 70s Spireite]

trickytrevsfanclub, on 12 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong I used to enjoy standing on the Kop and did so for years. I can understand how people miss it. Personally I thought I would but I don't. I actually find that I watch more of the game than I ever did whilst standing. When standing I'd spend most of the game chatting to my mates around me and not concentrating on the match LOL.
On a more serious note I'm older now and have a dodgy leg so standing isn't great for me. Of course if the Kop became standing I'd just move into a seated area, I'd hate it though as I've always watched from behind the goal and its my preffered view. It's all about personal choice really. Just can't see it happening though due to the obvious cost implications.

My sentiments entirely. But Tricky, preffered? Really? From you?

[Spire1986]

60s 70s Spireite, on 11 December 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

The Hillsborough families say there are 96 reasons not to bring back standing. So it seems not 'everyone' is for it.

You could argue that there are 43 reasons why seating is unsafe, (Ellis Stadium disaster). The Hillsbrough Disaster argument no longer makes sense, if you greatly exceed the capacity of a standing or seated area you end up with the same result.

The families of the Hillsbrough victims have got the "truth" they wanted, why they even get a say in this I dont know. The Taylor report and the recent revelations both put the majority of the blame on human error. The blame has been put where they wanted it, on the police. We all know the angels behind Gate C were not to blame. Its about time they did one IMO.

[JonB]

Spire1986, on 11 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Maybe it wasn't feasable at the time to create standing areas on the Moor, although Morcambe and others managed it, but to say nothing will change is very short sighted. Some big clubs are getting behind this and it can only steam-roll.

Whilst I appreciate some folk want to stand I'm glad we didn't put standing areas in and end up with the three sided thing that Morecambe dd if that's what you had to do to get it. With regards to being short sighted the club had the desire to get further than league 1, having terraces would I think of prevented this and been another costly exercise down the line to correct should we get there.

As or this campaign yes the safe seating seems to work but even if its passed its going to take a lot from clubs for it to be out in. Likes of villa will probably be fine as the holt end was previously standing so can probably be converted with not loads of work but other clubs with new grounds or new stands that are purpose built seating areas won't be in a hurry to knock them down and rebuild again which is what will be needed.

Guessing here but I suspect if we were to do the south stand we'd have to completely rebuild it yet still find somewhere to put the refreshments, toilets etc whilst having a sold base to the stand in the same space the current stand sits. None of this will be cheap and I suspect the costs will either mean less on players or passed onto fans with ticket prices.

Also without going over old ground whilst some folk may see the middle back of the kop as somewhere to stand someone buying a ticket in an all seater ground is entitled to buy a ticket wherever they want and expect to sit down and watch the game.

This post has been edited by JonB: 12 December 2012 - 08:17 AM

[Town_Fan]

It's the people who make an atmosphere not the architecture.

[Spire1986]

Town_Fan, on 12 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

It's the people who make an atmosphere not the architecture.

True, but its a lot easier when the more vocal fans can gather in the same area rather than being scattered around. Its also a lot easier and more comfortable from an upright position.

[Johnnyspireite7]

60s 70s Spireite, on 12 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

My sentiments entirely. But Tricky, preffered? Really? From you?

Live by the sword, die by the machine gun!!!!

[SpireKopite]

If that's the case then why don't we just try and get a block designed as a designated singing section? People will still stand up even though it's all seated. That's never really going to be stopped.