[Cosmo Kramer]

cooper6271.freeserve.co.uk, on Jan 25 2006, 12:30 PM, said:

So come on then all you great supportes of this board. Tell me how are this lot going to move this club on,tell me when this lot are going to invest to take us forward. Tell me when you think we will get a new ground.Tell me why fans will not turn up in numbers to support the club,hey i may be a moaner if thats what you call it, but what i am not is blind and being led by the blind.The truth is we are going nowhere fast, and you all know it to be the truth.

I think that we'll see at the end of the season whether we are going nowhere or not. Even if we don't get in the play-offs then an improvement of what, 8 or 10 places over lat season? Thats not progress?

Get a grip. Our financial constraints mean that it will have to be a case of slow and steady. Growth within our means. Why you expect the men who manage the club on a day to day basis to subsidise your saturday afteroon entertainment by chucking their own money at the team is beyond me.

[sophocles]

McG, on Jan 25 2006, 01:36 PM, said:

I think that we'll see at the end of the season whether we are going nowhere or not. Even if we don't get in the play-offs then an improvement of what, 8 or 10 places over lat season? Thats not progress?

Get a grip. Our financial constraints mean that it will have to be a case of slow and steady. Growth within our means. Why you expect the men who manage the club on a day to day basis to subsidise your saturday afteroon entertainment by chucking their own money at the team is beyond me.

You should know by now MvG that talking sense on here is wasting your breath with some folks. I mean the ones who can't seem to understand that we HAVE to be just a little bit less ambitious than Chelsea, and that having a manager who has made us into play-off contenders on next to no resources IS tremendous progress.

[johnd51]

As no-one seems ever to reply to basically the same post I've made on various threads, I'll put an end to this one as well. There must have been some savings made by allowing 3 young pros, De Bolla, Sammy and Tcham to leave and only O'Hara coming in. If RM can identify 1 or 2 loan signings (ie a midfield player and particularly a forward) which will improve the squad let the Board authorise the spending of what I am guessing would be £35,000 tops until the end of the season (less the above savings). By my calculations it amounts to some extra 300 bodies through the gate at each home game. If not why not a specific 'promotion' fund raiser aimed at the fans (again). This is not a major gamble to put the future of the club at risk in my view.
We have a big chance to get promotion which may not come again for a long time. (As I have said we were relegated from the 2nd tier 2 months before I was born and this is the second or third best chance to get back we have had since then.)

[skaw]

What kind of fund raiser? And you must remember signing players doesnt guarentee promotion. Any savings on tcham, debolla etc may well have been cancelled already by the hurst, picken and clingan loans. Werent we lookin at a 50k loss so far this season??

[johnd51]

We need a forward. RM 'pushed the boat out' (to quote Barrie) when he brought Stallard in and we already had Chief, Tcham, De Bolla and Caleb who were all in some sort of form at the time. We now only have 3 central strikers. Clearly I don't have access to all the financial information but if we don't make the most of our opportunity this season it may be a while before it comes round again. I'm not suggesting the club ties itself to long term commitments and massive wages - just two loan signings if they will improve the squad.

[skaw]

Can we make anymore loan players? Isnt the method to make these already in place with the players fund?? Could the fans come up with the money to sign bowditch on loan for example??

[johnd51]

skaw, on Jan 25 2006, 04:21 PM, said:

Can we make anymore loan players? Isnt the method to make these already in place with the players fund?? Could the fans come up with the money to sign bowditch on loan for example??

Yes?

Yes.

Yes. If they have to.

[skaw]

will you organise it?!! How much per fan?

[Cosmo Kramer]

skaw, on Jan 25 2006, 04:29 PM, said:

will you organise it?!! How much per fan?

Should someone ask Dean Bowditch first? You might be wasting your time.

[skaw]

Bowditch was an example, i think if someone was going to go for this they would have to talk to roy and the player and release the players name to the fans which could jepardise chances of getting the player!

[johnd51]

Last time I looked there was a commercial dept. at the club and directors with this sort of responsibility but yes, I would organise it. The first step is for RM to identify his requirements, for the club to show any consequential shortfall after savings and projected increase in revenue arising, and if they need someone to organise a specific fundraise I would do it.
Let's face it we have already had various companies sponsoring players (eg McMaster and I'm sure this can be done again, especially with the possibility of the play-offs rather than merely avoiding relegation.

[Mr.Spireite]

johnd51, on Jan 25 2006, 03:45 PM, said:

As no-one seems ever to reply to basically the same post I've made on various threads, I'll put an end to this one as well. There must have been some savings made by allowing 3 young pros, De Bolla, Sammy and Tcham to leave and only O'Hara coming in. If RM can identify 1 or 2 loan signings (ie a midfield player and particularly a forward) which will improve the squad let the Board authorise the spending of what I am guessing would be £35,000 tops until the end of the season (less the above savings). By my calculations it amounts to some extra 300 bodies through the gate at each home game. If not why not a specific 'promotion' fund raiser aimed at the fans (again). This is not a major gamble to put the future of the club at risk in my view.
We have a big chance to get promotion which may not come again for a long time. (As I have said we were relegated from the 2nd tier 2 months before I was born and this is the second or third best chance to get back we have had since then.)

Also increase in entrance fee on last year means that even with the small drop off of fans we haven't lost money.

Ofloaded Lancaster, Jubb, Fox, Debolla since the start of the season and brought in zero players on full time contracts, which means with the Evatt fee involved McFarland has only utilised the loan system. We all know this can actually cost the club with paying certain percentage of wages, but is it a prudent way of actually improving the squad short term ?

We really need to bolster the squad with a few full signings as for me we are again trying to do everything on the cheap.

Again not knocking McFarland but if the board is not committed to a long term plan then we may have trouble brewing next season.

[johnd51]

Mr.Spireite, on Jan 25 2006, 04:54 PM, said:

Also increase in entrance fee on last year means that even with the small drop off of fans we haven't lost money.

Ofloaded Lancaster, Jubb, Fox, Debolla since the start of the season and brought in zero players on full time contracts, which means with the Evatt fee involved McFarland has only utilised the loan system. We all know this can actually cost the club with paying certain percentage of wages, but is it a prudent way of actually improving the squad short term ?

We really need to bolster the squad with a few full signings as for me we are again trying to do everything on the cheap.

Again not knocking McFarland but if the board is not committed to a long term plan then we may have trouble brewing next season.

Agreed. I was just trying to give a specific example of how team strengthening might be funded without long term financing. If we can bring improvements and invest for the future at the same time then so much the better.

[Mr.Spireite]

johnd51, on Jan 25 2006, 04:59 PM, said:

Agreed. I was just trying to give a specific example of how team strengthening might be funded without long term financing. If we can bring improvements and invest for the future at the same time then so much the better.

It's kind of funny to me last season we had Allison, Folan, Debolla & N'Toya all sort of playing well and pushing for starts, this season we added Larkin so our up front options were again increased but to be honest only Allison & Larkin have done well. Folan has failed to score and he has been given plenty of chances, but he does have a nuisance factor.

Debolla started at Blackpool and scored and then did little else.
N'Toya just hasn't been given a chance and when given the odd few minites, has not impressed.
Larkin, did well to start with but has fissled out, but talking to a Mansfield fan at work he plays well and scores in spells.
Hall did well in a short spell but isn't a long term answer.
As for Heath he must be worth a short term contract till the end of the season if Man Utd are looking to offload as we have released 4 other strikers if you include Fox and Lancaster.

[johnd51]

As can be seen from the above thread I was pleading with the Board to enable us to sign another forward before the end of January as it was clear we were under strength in that department if we were sustain a bid for the play-offs/automatic promotion. It now looks as if we are going to have to sign someone on an emergency basis with an even more limited choice available.
Larkin was outstanding last night in build up play until he tired late on but appears to have lost confidence in front of goal which is not surprising given his relative lack of matches. Caleb is not as bad as most people think but cannot lead the line. He is a willing runner but his sheer unpredictability makes him difficult to find from midfield or play off if you are the other striker (the same could be said of Tcham).
RM seems not to have had confidence in anyone other than Allison up front which is one of the reasons he went to the much-maligned 4-5-1. The addition of Heath does not appear to have changed this. If we cannot get an experienced striker in for Saturday then we have to play Larkin up top with Hall just behind. Paul appears to be struggling with the orthodox midfield role being unwilling or unable to meet the physical demands of the job. His positional play further forward is still very good, however, and he is better 'in the hole' and drifting out wide when necessary.
Against a very committed and physical Rovers team Allott and O'Hara were simply not up to the job of containment and creativity with Hall and Hurst as their mates and who are essentially both attacking players. Last night was the first time that O'Hara had played centre-mid in a four and he found it hard. Allott had much less influence on the game than usual as he was trying to cover too much ground. Of all the games that Niven could have been left out for, this was not the one - particularly when we had such an inexperienced back four.
There are still 39 possible points left to play for. All the other top teams have difficult matches and/or are involved in cup competitions. 73 points is still a realistic aim and might be enough for a play off place given the trend for all the teams to take points off each other. We will win on Saturday. It's time for all of us to show some belief and, to go back to my first point, that includes the Board. If we sign a forward before Saturday that would put 300 on the gate and be self financing.

[johnd51]

I'm just adding this to bring it up the list as none of the daylight activists thought it was interesting (as usual) after I'd done all that typing! We do need another forward.

[dtr36]

if heath is the man how come we not seen owt of him yet
he cannot be that unfit??????????????????

[fishini]

Jonno, on Jan 24 2006, 04:46 PM, said:

Agree 100%. Who had heard of Clingan, Picken, O'Hara, JCR, Hurst etc?

Clingan gone, JCR gone, O'Hara never going to be ours ( but we always knew that) Picken and Hurst are we going to let them slip through our fingers also? If the board had made money available for Sammy and JCR instead of peanuts and we managed to hang on to Picken and Hurst Christ what a team we would have real promotion qualities, instead we have Folan, Smith and TNT who have contributed very little to our campaign and must be off loaded ASAP

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

fishini, on Feb 16 2006, 09:25 PM, said:

Clingan gone, JCR gone, O'Hara never going to be ours ( but we always knew that) Picken and Hurst are we going to let them slip through our fingers also? If the board had made money available for Sammy and JCR instead of peanuts and we managed to hang on to Picken and Hurst Christ what a team we would have real promotion qualities, instead we have Folan, Smith and TNT who have contributed very little to our campaign and must be off loaded ASAP

Still not convinced JCR would have been the messiah. Doen nothing since he left