[Crooked_Spireite]

toddhopper, on 23 June 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Sounds to me you've bought the right wing propaganda that's been fed to us for the past few decades & think all our woes are down to the feckless & lazy so & so's at the rump of society.
I'm sorry, but to think our society provides equality of opportunity & that successful people get there through just their own efforts is entirely inaccurate.
As for footballers, I see no chip on the shoulder attitude in pointing out how fatuous the 'short career' explanation & excuse for exorbitant pay packets is. It simply has nothing to do with why wages can be so astrinomically high in football. Football is a very good example of a market out of control & unlike many who have been indoctrinated into thinking free markets are the perfect means on which to base our economy, I recognise that without adequate regulation & control things always & I mean ALWAYS spin wildly out of control until major convulsions occur causing untold suffering to real people, all for the sake of market purity & the wallets of those who are in a position to milk those markets for their own benefit. In the case of football, the fans will be the one's who suffer, as because of their emotional attachments to their clubs, they are asked for & willingly pay ever more money to help finance the obscene extravagance we witness corrupting the people's game.

Past few decades?

The notion of the free market economy has been around for slightly longer than that.

If I couldn't afford a season ticket I wouldn't buy one. If I couldn't afford Sky Sports I wouldn't buy it. It's a pretty simple equation. I don't buy a shirt because I think they are expensive....I therefore don't get myself into debt because of my spend on football. If I did I wouldn't expect anyone to help me. The UK does not exist to make sure everyone can do whatever they want to do. People have to take responsibility and look after themselves.

Maybe the club is "forcing" me to buy their product because I love it...when you can't afford something you don't buy it (short of putting food on the table for family). Simple as. Football is therefore underpinned by a rational model of market economics. If a club oversteps the mark they go bust. And they should be allowed to go bust.

Yes top footballers are paid a ridiculous amount of money and I believe it is OTT. Who is to say what is "too much though". At the moment it's a bl00dy good job they are paying tax to support public sector inefficiency, final salary pensions and general waste.

[Tora Tora Tora]

Crooked_Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

Past few decades?

The notion of the free market economy has been around for slightly longer than that.

If I couldn't afford a season ticket I wouldn't buy one. If I couldn't afford Sky Sports I wouldn't buy it. It's a pretty simple equation. I don't buy a shirt because I think they are expensive....I therefore don't get myself into debt because of my spend on football. If I did I wouldn't expect anyone to help me. The UK does not exist to make sure everyone can do whatever they want to do. People have to take responsibility and look after themselves.

Maybe the club is "forcing" me to buy their product because I love it...when you can't afford something you don't buy it (short of putting food on the table for family). Simple as. Football is therefore underpinned by a rational model of market economics. If a club oversteps the mark they go bust. And they should be allowed to go bust.

Yes top footballers are paid a ridiculous amount of money and I believe it is OTT. Who is to say what is "too much though". At the moment it's a bl00dy good job they are paying tax to support public sector inefficiency, final salary pensions and general waste.

Can someone help me because i think i am on the wrong website! Is this bobs board or have i been unexplicably diverted to a Bloombergs/economics forum for adam smith types. i reckon we should sign both

[Crooked_Spireite]

Gate6, on 23 June 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

Can someone help me because i think i am on the wrong website! Is this bobs board or have i been unexplicably diverted to a Bloombergs/economics forum for adam smith types. i reckon we should sign both

Lol

Fair comment.

Would help if something interesting were to happen in the world of football that we could talk about instead of wrangling over economics!

Is it me or is the start of this pre-season exceptionally dull!?

[Tora Tora Tora]

Crooked_Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Lol

Fair comment.

Would help if something interesting were to happen in the world of football that we could talk about instead of wrangling over economics!

Is it me or is the start of this pre-season exceptionally dull!?

Its due to a condition called expectation fever mate and we have all contracted it.

yes it is a pretty dull and uneventfull pre season.

[DIFH]

Gate6, on 23 June 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

Can someone help me because i think i am on the wrong website! Is this bobs board or have i been unexplicably diverted to a Bloombergs/economics forum for adam smith types. i reckon we should sign both

It's all these flippin accountants (Alledgedly)tryin to bamboozle us - they think they're on their hourly rate of 100 quid per hour.

This post has been edited by Dave In Footie Heaven: 23 June 2011 - 12:43 PM

[toddhopper]

bluesocks, on 23 June 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

i dont know if such posts are designed to try and make you look half intelligent, but to me it has the adverse affect.. it makes you look a nob (or is that a knob?)

Well, that post certainly knocked my argument for 6!! Well done!

[toddhopper]

Crooked_Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

Past few decades?

The notion of the free market economy has been around for slightly longer than that.

If I couldn't afford a season ticket I wouldn't buy one. If I couldn't afford Sky Sports I wouldn't buy it. It's a pretty simple equation. I don't buy a shirt because I think they are expensive....I therefore don't get myself into debt because of my spend on football. If I did I wouldn't expect anyone to help me. The UK does not exist to make sure everyone can do whatever they want to do. People have to take responsibility and look after themselves.

Maybe the club is "forcing" me to buy their product because I love it...when you can't afford something you don't buy it (short of putting food on the table for family). Simple as. Football is therefore underpinned by a rational model of market economics. If a club oversteps the mark they go bust. And they should be allowed to go bust.

Yes top footballers are paid a ridiculous amount of money and I believe it is OTT. Who is to say what is "too much though". At the moment it's a bl00dy good job they are paying tax to support public sector inefficiency, final salary pensions and general waste.

If you read my post again, I'm sure you will notice I didn't at any point suggest the notion of free markets had only come about in the last few decades.
Too much is hard to define, I agree, but I think most of us will agree that clubs going to the wall every year is a sign of 'too much'.

[Crooked_Spireite]

toddhopper, on 23 June 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

If you read my post again, I'm sure you will notice I didn't at any point suggest the notion of free markets had only come about in the last few decades.
Too much is hard to define, I agree, but I think most of us will agree that clubs going to the wall every year is a sign of 'too much'.

A fair point.

Anyway, WILL SOMEONE SIGN SOMEONE PLEASE! Anybody....even Wednesday.....

[toddhopper]

Crooked_Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

A fair point.

Anyway, WILL SOMEONE SIGN SOMEONE PLEASE! Anybody....even Wednesday.....

Patience young Skywalker! The force is with us!

[s42blue]

mincemeat, on 22 June 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

Do they really have the same opportunities to progress? I think many many people will disagree with you; children are nurtured (sometimes, fortunately gifted) in a household that doesnt value education, uses what vices they feel necessary to quell their misery, no prospects of manual work that pays a good wage (like the miners had)these children are left to their own devices and ultimately don't make anything of themselves; i should know, i've taught hundreds of them.

As for 'do something about it'; what exactly, do what? My point relating to footballers was that they DO have the opportunity to better themselves more than others; they have the money, the time, the contacts....i want to do a Masters degree...do you know how much that will cost me? £5'000.00 i can't afford that and the Government or local authorities won't contribute a penny towards it...not even a loan; if i was a footballer i'd have no problem doing it.

Each individual has to "do" what ever their niche, their skill is. There are still numerous examples, and whilst they probably are exceptions, of people brought up in the households that you mention to achieve their goal..that can be financial or spiritual. The only thing that limits people is themselves.
And whilst i obviously dont know your circumstances and dont in any wish to offend I suggest there are ways and means of saving to achieve the goals you want if you are wholly committed.

[s42blue]

toddhopper, on 23 June 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Sounds to me you've bought the right wing propaganda that's been fed to us for the past few decades & think all our woes are down to the feckless & lazy so & so's at the rump of society.
I'm sorry, but to think our society provides equality of opportunity & that successful people get there through just their own efforts is entirely inaccurate.
As for footballers, I see no chip on the shoulder attitude in pointing out how fatuous the 'short career' explanation & excuse for exorbitant pay packets is. It simply has nothing to do with why wages can be so astrinomically high in football. Football is a very good example of a market out of control & unlike many who have been indoctrinated into thinking free markets are the perfect means on which to base our economy, I recognise that without adequate regulation & control things always & I mean ALWAYS spin wildly out of control until major convulsions occur causing untold suffering to real people, all for the sake of market purity & the wallets of those who are in a position to milk those markets for their own benefit. In the case of football, the fans will be the one's who suffer, as because of their emotional attachments to their clubs, they are asked for & willingly pay ever more money to help finance the obscene extravagance we witness corrupting the people's game.

Sounds to me that youve bought the left wing propaganda.... Our woes are not down to the feckless (good word btw) but certainly not to those who have made good of and for themselves (doesn't have to be money.). Our current woes are down to many things... to lack of regulation that ocurred in the banks, pursuit of money as an idol, reckless public spending, Brown being inept and incompetent before and after.

As for the inaccuracies of my idea on effort and reward you offer no reply other than it's inaccurate. Where there's a will there's a way.

But as you say......cant we just sign someone???!!

[Wooden Spoon]

toddhopper, on 23 June 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

If you read my post again, I'm sure you will notice I didn't at any point suggest the notion of free markets had only come about in the last few decades.
Too much is hard to define, I agree, but I think most of us will agree that clubs going to the wall every year is a sign of 'too much'.

Bradford and Rotherham

[Deano1866]

s42blue, on 23 June 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Sounds to me that youve bought the left wing propaganda.... Our woes are not down to the feckless (good word btw) but certainly not to those who have made good of and for themselves (doesn't have to be money.). Our current woes are down to many things... to lack of regulation that ocurred in the banks, pursuit of money as an idol, reckless public spending, Brown being inept and incompetent before and after.

As for the inaccuracies of my idea on effort and reward you offer no reply other than it's inaccurate. Where there's a will there's a way.

But as you say......cant we just sign someone???!!

Yes we can, Lomana lua lua anyone ?

[Westbars Spireite]

mincemeat, on 22 June 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

Sorry, mate, but for keeping fit, kicking a ball around and is most cases plenty of adulation from your fans, i think £800.00 per week (which is really at the bottom end) is plenty! You need to tell that to people who earn minimum wage, working a 40 hour week, pal!

That equates to circa £3200.00 per month..........oh, my, how hard done by they must be feeling; you need to get in the real world, pal!

Plenty of people in Chesterfield earn that sort of money pre-tax.

[Misnomer]

Westbars Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 05:19 PM, said:

Plenty of people in Chesterfield earn that sort of money pre-tax.

And?????

[Misnomer]

toddhopper, on 23 June 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

Well, that post certainly knocked my argument for 6!! Well done!

lol what do thay say about offence losing the argument...................

[Westbars Spireite]

mincemeat, on 23 June 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

And?????

It was seemingly being quoted as some huge figure. To someone on minimum wage, yes. To others, no.

[Misnomer]

Westbars Spireite, on 23 June 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

It was seemingly being quoted as some huge figure. To someone on minimum wage, yes. To others, no.

Actually, i never once said it was huge i said it was 'plenty'; there's a big difference. For kicking a ball, keeping fit and being part of something most of us who support Town would love to do, i'd say it's plenty; i'd do it for £2000.00 a month pre tax and NI!!!!!!!!!!!

[Westbars Spireite]

mincemeat, on 23 June 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

Actually, i never once said it was huge i said it was 'plenty'; there's a big difference. For kicking a ball, keeping fit and being part of something most of us who support Town would love to do, i'd say it's plenty; i'd do it for £2000.00 a month pre tax and NI!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't directly quoting you. It was th. impression it gave.

I'd play for nothing but hardly the point!

Anyway footballers have needs, even in division four. A lower quality WAG still has maintenance costs and rims on Range Rovers cost a fortune.