[JonB]

MDCCCLXVI, on 19 November 2010 - 11:50 AM, said:

But as has been pointed out ad infinitum - it doesn't have to be just a bar!

Creche? Classroom for visiting kids? A 'low budget' space for do's of one sort or another? Simple accomodation for the 'new' supporters club? What we're looking for is a multi-function room that can offer a pub style environment when required. Y'know, just like virtually every other club in the country has.

As things stand the CFSS have just an empty shell in return for their shares, at least this'd be something tangible to show for their acquiescence.

It may not just have to be a bar but if its going to be some multi purpose room, and i can see some parents having issues putting their kids in a creche that has beer pumps in the corner, then is it going to entice people out of the many pubs with various beer of varying decentness and style when in effect its more or less a square box that happens to serve beer.

[RikShaw]

JonB, on 19 November 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

It may not just have to be a bar but if its going to be some multi purpose room, and i can see some parents having issues putting their kids in a creche that has beer pumps in the corner, then is it going to entice people out of the many pubs with various beer of varying decentness and style when in effect its more or less a square box that happens to serve beer.

*cough* - The Lock Keeper?

Personaly, I don't see a bar/coffee shop appealling to the mature beer drinkers of Whitt Moor. I see it as a facility that could add extra appeal, attracting a new type of customer to the immediate area, i.e.shoppers leaving Tesco, business people have informal meetings, young parents meeting up for a coffee/snack/chat.....

[dalekpete]

Dema Reborn, on 19 November 2010 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yes but there is supposed to ppl with long term leases ready to move in,where are they lol....

You don't get the eight or 15 years'rent up-front. This means you still need a business plan and grants or more likely loans for the fit-out.

There is no plan for a bar as all the space is accounted for and the whole unit is being leased to the Charitable Trust. There will be a cafe and a play area that will provide a creche facility. The only room big enough to fit bars will be the multi-use room that might be otherwise utilised on match days by the Trust. If I were the Club I would make it part of the lease that the Trust didn't undertake activities directly in competition with the lounges or concourses on matchdays...

[RikShaw]

dalekpete, on 19 November 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

You don't get the eight or 15 years'rent up-front. This means you still need a business plan and grants or more likely loans for the fit-out.

There is no plan for a bar as all the space is accounted for and the whole unit is being leased to the Charitable Trust. There will be a cafe and a play area that will provide a creche facility. The only room big enough to fit bars will be the multi-use room that might be otherwise utilised on match days by the Trust. If I were the Club I would make it part of the lease that the Trust didn't undertake activities directly in competition with the lounges or concourses on matchdays...

Pete, I agree, but the new 'facilities' should be competing for the supporters money that goes over the bars at the Donkey Derby etc, etc

[JonB]

Maverick, on 19 November 2010 - 03:30 PM, said:

Pete, I agree, but the new 'facilities' should be competing for the supporters money that goes over the bars at the Donkey Derby etc, etc

They do....shed loads of bars open from 1pm within the Ground.

[johnd51]

Have the 'Charitable Trust' paid the football club any money yet for the lease? If so, how much and how long is the lease for?

[dalekpete]

johnd51, on 19 November 2010 - 03:38 PM, said:

Have the 'Charitable Trust' paid the football club any money yet for the lease? If so, how much and how long is the lease for?

Only the initial £225,260 the lease has to be at least 25 years but I guess might be 99.

[johnd51]

Thanks Pete. That's a lot of money. Where did that money come from? How much more to pay and when?
If it was deemed a good idea by all parties can the football club rent back part of the space and on what basis?

This post has been edited by johnd51: 19 November 2010 - 05:02 PM

[dalekpete]

johnd51, on 19 November 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

Thanks Pete. That's a lot of money. Where did that money come from? How much more to pay and when?
If it was deemed a good idea by all parties can the football club rent back part of the space and on what basis?

That was the money paid for the shares owned by the Supporters Club (CFSS) that were needed for Mr Allen to reach his 80% holding. The money was passed to CFSS and then to CFC2001 as part of the understanding about the community facilities. There will be an ongoing rent during the term of the lease. If there were space the Club could rent it the same as they might rent any of the classrooms or the multi-use space.

[azul]

dalekpete, on 19 November 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

That was the money paid for the shares owned by the Supporters Club (CFSS) that were needed for Mr Allen to reach his 80% holding. The money was passed to CFSS and then to CFC2001 as part of the understanding about the community facilities. There will be an ongoing rent during the term of the lease. If there were space the Club could rent it the same as they might rent any of the classrooms or the multi-use space.

Supporters club?

So when do you actually think the fit out will happen and the rooms occupied?

When public expenditure is cut, historically this puts pressure on charities to fill the void

And I know that cuts in public expenditure has been dismissed as an issue before but than is before the extent was know.

[johnd51]

dalekpete, on 19 November 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

That was the money paid for the shares owned by the Supporters Club (CFSS) that were needed for Mr Allen to reach his 80% holding. The money was passed to CFSS and then to CFC2001 as part of the understanding about the community facilities. There will be an ongoing rent during the term of the lease. If there were space the Club could rent it the same as they might rent any of the classrooms or the multi-use space.

So this was money that the club already had, which they gave back to CFSS members, who gave it back to the club.
The Community Project has therefore not actually raised any new money for the club as yet. What will the rent be and when will it start to be paid?
You see what I'm getting at here. If the multi-use space could be completed separately then both the Trust and the club could earn money via a supporters' bar/cafe or whatever. Why don't the supporters' club look at this? Surely it's not because their committee are members or allowed to use the existing lounges. What about the great unwashed, like me, struggling to get a pint in the Tup, DD or Miners.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

JonB, on 19 November 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

It may not just have to be a bar but if its going to be some multi purpose room, and i can see some parents having issues putting their kids in a creche that has beer pumps in the corner, then is it going to entice people out of the many pubs with various beer of varying decentness and style when in effect its more or less a square box that happens to serve beer.

Yeah, the very idea of taking kids into an environment that might have a visible beer pump on show. What parent would ever consider such a thing. Whatever is society coming to.

Look; a good friend of mine, who works for a multi-billion pound, multi-national company, tells me that any serious business person visiting the pubs around the b2net on a matchday would be aghast that the Club had done so little to capture the income going begging. What's more i'm also told Dave Allen is more than aware of the issue.

I think it's time that folk stopped looking for lame reasons why we shouldn't tap into the potential income offered by the inherent loyalty of Chesterfield supporters, and began embracing the possibilities it presents.

[dalekpete]

johnd51, on 20 November 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

The Community Project has therefore not actually raised any new money for the club as yet.

You had better report us to the Charity Commission!

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 19 November 2010 - 01:57 PM, said:

Which do you think is more useful - the empty shell or the shares?.
Their 'acquiescence' could be seen as a major contributory factor in creating the supportive cooperative non conflict environment that is currently so successful here and so destructive at S6.

At the moment they're worth exactly the same - nowt!

As for your second sentence, i'd agree that Allen's 'welcome' at Town is in stark contrast to his Hillsborough experience and i've repeatedly praised the impact he's had. He's been responsible for CFC evolving from a twee, amateuristic, and self-satisfied nineteen fifties style outfit to one that can genuinely compete in the Twenty First Century. However you'll have to forgive me if i once again state my opposition to people's intelligence being challenged (though maybe some deserve what they get) and wishing that i'd simply been told the truth.

[johnd51]

dalekpete, on 20 November 2010 - 06:51 PM, said:

You had better report us to the Charity Commission!

You may think it is a matter for humour. I keep banging on about a supporters' bar partly because I find it amusing to read all the old arguments against, time after time, but also because I genuinely think it is a good idea both for the club and particularly for the fans.

Perhaps a more important issue is the fact that I reckon most of the 'CFSS shareholders' who helped to save the club, truly believed that in giving their shareholding back to Dave Allen they would be helping to create facilities that would benefit the club not only in a community enhancing way, but also by raising money through hiring out of the facilities. The more we learn about the plans, which may or may not come to fruition, the concrete benefits to the club, ie those which will increase its ability to compete on the field of play, look to be increasingly small. If that was the case it may be that many CFSS members may have chosen to keep their shares and we could have had a cheaper build. Time will tell whether my undoubted cynicism proves correct.

This post has been edited by johnd51: 22 November 2010 - 11:43 AM

[dalekpete]

johnd51, on 22 November 2010 - 11:39 AM, said:

You may think it is a matter for humour. I keep banging on about a supporters' bar partly because I find it amusing to read all the old arguments against, time after time, but also because I genuinely think it is a good idea both for the club and particularly for the fans.

Perhaps a more important issue is the fact that I reckon most of the 'CFSS shareholders' who helped to save the club, truly believed that in giving their shareholding back to Dave Allen they would be helping to create facilities that would benefit the club not only in a community enhancing way, but also by raising money through hiring out of the facilities. The more we learn about the plans, which may or may not come to fruition, the concrete benefits to the club, ie those which will increase its ability to compete on the field of play, look to be increasingly small. If that was the case it may be that many CFSS members may have chosen to keep their shares and we could have had a cheaper build. Time will tell whether my undoubted cynicism proves correct.

The Community Trust will pay rent for the facilities it helped to build but the project will benefit the Club in five ways.

The first is the rent and any purchase of goods and services from the Club by the Trust. These include tickets and goods from the shop.

The second is lateral footfall into the shop and facilities and extra ticket sales. Publicity and direct ticket sales, for example several disabled footballers are now regulars at matches and schools visits boost the shop sales.

The third is partners using the West Stand facilities. Although Gary and his team are perfectly capable of drumming up business some of the events at the B2net are from community partners. Some of these partners are major players including one with a billion pound turn over.

The fourth is the goodwill that community events generate and the levers the Trust provides in the Club's wider dealings in the community.

The fifth is the use of facilities and projects by staff and players within the Club or the public to access core Club events.

Of course some of this is already happening with many projects.

[johnd51]

dalekpete, on 22 November 2010 - 12:38 PM, said:

The Community Trust will pay rent for the facilities it helped to build but the project will benefit the Club in five ways.

The first is the rent and any purchase of goods and services from the Club by the Trust. These include tickets and goods from the shop.

The second is lateral footfall into the shop and facilities and extra ticket sales. Publicity and direct ticket sales, for example several disabled footballers are now regulars at matches and schools visits boost the shop sales.

The third is partners using the West Stand facilities. Although Gary and his team are perfectly capable of drumming up business some of the events at the B2net are from community partners. Some of these partners are major players including one with a billion pound turn over.

The fourth is the goodwill that community events generate and the levers the Trust provides in the Club's wider dealings in the community.

The fifth is the use of facilities and projects by staff and players within the Club or the public to access core Club events.

Of course some of this is already happening with many projects.

All good clean fun and very difficult to quantify. What rent will the Trust be paying and when? How did they help to build the facilities? I know you do a lot for free Pete but did that extend to bricklaying and plumbing?

[spireite220]

Something like at derby would be good, they have things such as banks, a starbuck's cafe and a greggs, open it up to local business, and charge rent for it, Leaveing the top floor available for the F.I.T.C

[DIFH]

spireite220, on 24 November 2010 - 02:35 PM, said:

Something like at derby would be good, they have things such as banks, a starbuck's cafe and a greggs, open it up to local business, and charge rent for it, Leaveing the top floor available for the F.I.T.C

Too far off the beaten track to attract customers and prospective renters. Similar arguament to the supporters bar idea.