[s42blue]

Not scum or any spurious insults but a thread for thoughts on the current government.

I had been thoroughly impressed by the initial actions of the new Labour government.

No huge promises, no gloating and KS reacting like a good leader. Very solid. Some sensitive and sensible ideas.

Yet today?s suspension of the whip for voting against the Labour Government I think is truly shocking.

Clamping down on dissent? Party unity? Or something much more undemocratic and sinister?

Dont get me wrong I have no wish to see the previous government in power and feel they were the worst government in my lifetime but this is not what I expected.

[turrhall]

A taste of things to come from Starmer. Who is, at heart, a petty authoritarian.

[dim view]

s42blue, on 23 July 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

Not scum or any spurious insults but a thread for thoughts on the current government.

I had been thoroughly impressed by the initial actions of the new Labour government.

No huge promises, no gloating and KS reacting like a good leader. Very solid. Some sensitive and sensible ideas.

Yet today?s suspension of the whip for voting against the Labour Government I think is truly shocking.

Clamping down on dissent? Party unity? Or something much more undemocratic and sinister?

Dont get me wrong I have no wish to see the previous government in power and feel they were the worst government in my lifetime but this is not what I expected.

It's simple.
It raises their standing in their constituencies and enhances the credentials of the leadership whilst not affecting owt. Their suspension will be lifted soonish, with the limit being the date that it becomes law. If they still squeal after that then it becomes more serious, but they won't having made their point.

There's a good academic discussion to be had about how a leader of any group handles dissent. It's normal and healthy and shouldn't be viewed as sinister.

[s42blue]

dim view, on 24 July 2024 - 08:37 AM, said:

There's a good academic discussion to be had about how a leader of any group handles dissent. It's normal and healthy and shouldn't be viewed as sinister.

Having led a team I?m not sure it?s normal or healthy to suspend someone for having a different view. You think it is? I?m not saying it?s sinister, I?m saying it?s dreadful management.

[Search & Destroy]

About a fortnight before we got the 1st hard left rebellion

[azul]

Search & Destroy, on 24 July 2024 - 01:03 PM, said:

About a fortnight before we got the 1st hard left rebellion

Pay attention- they are all independents now. They can all go and sit with the Lib Dems now

s42blue, on 24 July 2024 - 11:58 AM, said:

Having led a team I?m not sure it?s normal or healthy to suspend someone for having a different view. You think it is? I?m not saying it?s sinister, I?m saying it?s dreadful management.

Running a political party isn?t the same as normal life. They voted for an amendment to the kings speech which they all ran on three weeks ago and were warned in advance what would happen.

The fact that I agree with them is immaterial to me, they got their due

This post has been edited by azul: 24 July 2024 - 01:35 PM

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 24 July 2024 - 01:27 PM, said:

Pay attention- they are independents now


Running a political party isn?t the same as normal life. They voted for an amendment to the kings speech which they all ran on three weeks ago and were warned in advance what would happen.

Maybe O'Donnell wanted to sit with his old mate Jezza, where they can get up to all sorts of mischief...



PMQs was a bit tame, is that because the govt havent done or said much yet? Nice of the SNP to bring up Gordon Brown, the man who single handedly pushed many people into a poor retirement by getting rid of dividend tax credit and bringing about the end of defined benefit pensions when anyone but the tax payer is paying...

[Johnnyspireite7]

azul, on 24 July 2024 - 01:27 PM, said:

Pay attention- they are all independents now. They can all go and sit with the Lib Dems now


Running a political party isn?t the same as normal life. They voted for an amendment to the kings speech which they all ran on three weeks ago and were warned in advance what would happen.

The fact that I agree with them is immaterial to me, they got their due

They can go and sit with Corbyn as they're his buddies, we don't want O'Donnell anywhere near us!

[azul]

Johnnyspireite7, on 24 July 2024 - 02:34 PM, said:

They can go and sit with Corbyn as they're his buddies, we don't want O'Donnell anywhere near us!

Yeah that O?Donnell is a bad egg

I like that McDonnell guy though

This post has been edited by azul: 24 July 2024 - 03:30 PM

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 24 July 2024 - 01:38 PM, said:

Maybe O'Donnell wanted to sit with his old mate Jezza, where they can get up to all sorts of mischief...



PMQs was a bit tame, is that because the govt havent done or said much yet? Nice of the SNP to bring up Gordon Brown, the man who single handedly pushed many people into a poor retirement by getting rid of dividend tax credit and bringing about the end of defined benefit pensions when anyone but the tax payer is paying...

My big fat final salary pensions are doing fine. The government is also partially funding my NATS (a PPP) pension. God bless them.

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 24 July 2024 - 03:28 PM, said:

My big fat final salary pensions are doing fine. The government is also partially funding my NATS (a PPP) pension. God bless them.

All you are showing is that Labour voters dont care about others, not a good look, in case you hadnt noticed...

PS so is mine and my very healthy DC scheme (although I may have to take the 25% tax free out before RR decides that she wants that too..) - nice problem to have but a shame that so many youngsters wont have the benefits we have...

On that subject, what is the view of United Learning offering teachers at its Multi Academy Trust an option on pensions - more cash now and a DC scheme pension with lower personal contributions (and company) but a salary increase to compensate meaning cost to employer is same, and the chance to opt back into the Teachers Pension Scheme at any time? Apparently the unions are up in arms... but isnt giving them a choice a good thing, so teachers trying to buy a house / raise a young family can take more cash now and then build up more pension later?

Or have the unions realised that if its offered in one place it might be repeated elsewhere and we have to fight to keep the golden egg at all costs, even if it members would prefer the choice?

PS an increasing number of teachers are opting out of the pension scheme all together, presumably to give them more take home? And of course if you want to attract the best graduates into the profession then a higher starting salary must help... they arent going to be thinking of pensions at 21!

Article on Brown's decision to wreck final salaries for everyone in a funded scheme not paid for by the tax payer...
https://www.thisismo...ion-errors.html

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: 24 July 2024 - 05:34 PM

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 24 July 2024 - 03:21 PM, said:

Yeah that O?Donnell is a bad egg

I like that McDonnell guy though

Getting my prefixs mixed up, going Irish in recognition of Corbyn's meetings with the IRA. Still a useless politician - although interestingly I'd have expected Labour to be all over removing the cap, if they really cared about child poverty. After all, with the growth coming down the line from nationalisation, great british energy, changing the planning laws, there wont be anyone on benefits in a few years....

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 24 July 2024 - 05:36 PM, said:

Getting my prefixs mixed up, going Irish in recognition of Corbyn's meetings with the IRA. Still a useless politician - although interestingly I'd have expected Labour to be all over removing the cap, if they really cared about child poverty. After all, with the growth coming down the line from nationalisation, great british energy, changing the planning laws, there wont be anyone on benefits in a few years....

Here we go again

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 24 July 2024 - 06:29 PM, said:

Here we go again

#
Believing the rhetoric, its going to be wonderful!

PS do you have a view on this looming problem?

https://news.sky.com/story/pension-problem-fears-of-retirement-crisis-resurface-as-numbers-saving-enough-collapses-13183644#:~:text=Sky's%20Ian%20King%20casts%20his,successive%20governments%20and%20other%20headwinds.&text=It's%20no%20secret%20that%20many,to%20live%20off%20in%20retirement.

Or United Learnings suggestion to improve teacher choices?

Or are opinions on things beyond you, just insults for individuals?

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: 24 July 2024 - 07:02 PM

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 24 July 2024 - 06:34 PM, said:

#
Believing the rhetoric, its going to be wonderful!

PS do you have a view on this looming problem?

https://news.sky.com/story/pension-problem-fears-of-retirement-crisis-resurface-as-numbers-saving-enough-collapses-13183644#:~:text=Sky's%20Ian%20King%20casts%20his,successive%20governments%20and%20other%20headwinds.&text=It's%20no%20secret%20that%20many,to%20live%20off%20in%20retirement.

Or United Learnings suggestion to improve teacher choices?

Or are opinions on things beyond you, just insults for individuals?

Wouldn't have problem had you scrutinized the Tories in the same manner. Sadly you didn't you are just a right wing version of EOC. The problems we have have been with us for years but you never mentioned them before when your Tories were in office. I have wonder why?

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 24 July 2024 - 07:28 PM, said:

Wouldn't have problem had you scrutinized the Tories in the same manner. Sadly you didn't you are just a right wing version of EOC. The problems we have have been with us for years but you never mentioned them before when your Tories were in office. I have wonder why?

Plenty of people calling out the problems, but I have repeatedly said that the Tories were the worst govt in my adult lifetime. And Boris should never be allowed near any job of responsibility...

And of course when we have an election, you are required to focus on what's important, so I'm doing that....

And as I said, none of the parties offered anything exciting or earth shattering in their manifestos, too much tinkering round the edges and not making a step change. Your thoughts on anything other than me?

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 24 July 2024 - 05:32 PM, said:

All you are showing is that Labour voters dont care about others, not a good look, in case you hadnt noticed...

All I am showing is I don't take you fixation with public sector pensions serious and I am therefore taking the piss

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 25 July 2024 - 01:02 AM, said:

All I am showing is I don't take you fixation with public sector pensions serious and I am therefore taking the piss

Its not a fixation with public sector pensions, its a concern over the state of the UKs finances and the fact we are promoting a two tier society with the haves and have nots.... and judging by the rumours, RR is going to double down on that with the proposed changes in the budget.

So maybe what I am really saying is socialists dont give a sh1t for anyone else, I'm alright Jack...

But then the chief socialist on here has took his ball home now his party is in and he may have to defend the decisions they make...

edit to add in case you have forgotten, we owe more on public sector pensions than we the size of GDP, and the size of the public sector grows each year so the debt for our kids to pay is getting bigger... its so bad now we need to keep it open to get this years contributions to pay some of the pensions... madness. But its ok, let a care worker on £12 an hour pay for the pension of a doctor on six figure salary....

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: 25 July 2024 - 06:27 AM

[Mr Mercury]

Had to have a wry smile over the nickname the Corbyn supporters and those who want the two child benefit cap removing and support those who?ve had the whip removed over opposing the government have given the PM.
For Keir Starmer read Kid starver

[dart in the crossbar]

isleaiw1, on 24 July 2024 - 05:32 PM, said:

All you are showing is that Labour voters dont care about others, not a good look, in case you hadnt noticed...

PS so is mine and my very healthy DC scheme (although I may have to take the 25% tax free out before RR decides that she wants that too..) - nice problem to have but a shame that so many youngsters wont have the benefits we have...

On that subject, what is the view of United Learning offering teachers at its Multi Academy Trust an option on pensions - more cash now and a DC scheme pension with lower personal contributions (and company) but a salary increase to compensate meaning cost to employer is same, and the chance to opt back into the Teachers Pension Scheme at any time? Apparently the unions are up in arms... but isnt giving them a choice a good thing, so teachers trying to buy a house / raise a young family can take more cash now and then build up more pension later?

Or have the unions realised that if its offered in one place it might be repeated elsewhere and we have to fight to keep the golden egg at all costs, even if it members would prefer the choice?

PS an increasing number of teachers are opting out of the pension scheme all together, presumably to give them more take home? And of course if you want to attract the best graduates into the profession then a higher starting salary must help... they arent going to be thinking of pensions at 21!

Article on Brown's decision to wreck final salaries for everyone in a funded scheme not paid for by the tax payer...
https://www.thisismo...ion-errors.html

The FT article on the UL pension plans is interesting. It also refers to the 'disastrous' decisions made by employees to leave company pensions schemes and 'unscrupulous' pension advisers.