[C HES TER FIELD]

Torteval, on 27 February 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Absolutely baffling tonight.

Why do we wait until half-time to get our best players on the pitch?

This isn't the first time for this in recent weeks.

Why does it take us until half-time to sort out a viable formation to play?

Again, not the first time.

Why do we surrender to teams in 20th and 24th place by playing one up front...AT HOME?

Why does any player showing a modicum of craft or guile, get left out of the side? Time and again.

From my interpretation, over the last 2 games we've played 4-5-1 , 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2. I probably missed a few there.

Only people more baffled than me were the players trying to work out where they were supposed to be.

I thought it was just me re the formations!! Last night we didnt play with one it was like watching a school team aged 6 just running where the ball went. Beggars belief what they do in training it certainly isnt the simple art of passing to a team mate and it certainly aint set pieces!!

[Spire-ite]

"Bacon Face", on 27 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

What amazes me more than anything, is the confidence some fans have in PC; making every lame excuse they can think of in order to justify his tenure: from TW and MC 'controlling' team affairs; PC needing his own staff; PC needing to 're-build' and form his 'own team'! PC's track record is enough to cast doubt, never mind his banal rhetoric! Sacked from Southport; relative success after a few seasons with the mighty 'Sligo'; only won 8, yes, 8 games with Accrington but lost 18, that's, lost 18!!!! And, then, somehow, ends up managing Chesterfield FC, with that record! Personally, that kind of record does not fill me with confidence. Even when AS came to the Proact with their pressing, high-tempo play, we still managed to beat them, even though they over-ran our midfield! Just before PC joined us, AS had lost four on the spin and had just been tanked 5-0 by Oxford; they had only won 2 in 10 and they were against Wimbledon and Aldershot!!!!!

Furthermore, PC used the exact rhetoric when at AS, he said their aim was to win the league and believed it was possible; described the club as a 'fantastic place'; believed the 'players work for the fans' blah blah....

I was very worried when we appointed PC, that hasn't changed; we are in deep doo doo!

Hmmmm.......when you look at it like that

[jack bauer]

I've gone from "are you serious?" when first appointed to "give him a go", then to "things are looking up, he'll do well when he brings his own players in", "no need to panic its only one defeat (post southend away)", to "this is a worrying run of form" to "i'm really not sure this was such a good appointment after all".

regarding teh one up front debate, one of the keys for me to this working well is having a midfielder who joins in and gets beyond the front man, such as Atkinson was doing, since then we have lost our way somewhat.

[Spire Power]

Dreaming Spire, on 27 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Yes, PC can talk the talk, but it doesn't wash with me, I'm afraid. Talk never achieves anything .... It is performances out there on the pitch that matters and that is the yardstick everyone will use to judge this manager. I honestly believe that we will not get relegated ..... But it could be very much closer than we are all expecting ! We are certainly no further forward than under the John Sheriden reign and I am now asking myself questions like "was it really THIS bad under his leadership ?!?!" .... Well, it was certainly time for a change. Of that there is no doubt .... But I can't help thinking Dave Allen could have been a bit hasty bringing in this guy on the back of one performance. Don't get me wrong here, this is not a back handed swipe at PC as I do genuinely like the guy .... But IS HE CAPABLE of actually delivering what Dave Allen and us supporters are hoping for ? .... AND .....

My BIG fear .... And I mean BIG !!! .... is next season !!!

Results rather than performances

[Spire Power]

"Bacon Face", on 27 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

What amazes me more than anything, is the confidence some fans have in PC; making every lame excuse they can think of in order to justify his tenure: from TW and MC 'controlling' team affairs; PC needing his own staff; PC needing to 're-build' and form his 'own team'! PC's track record is enough to cast doubt, never mind his banal rhetoric! Sacked from Southport; relative success after a few seasons with the mighty 'Sligo'; only won 8, yes, 8 games with Accrington but lost 18, that's, lost 18!!!! And, then, somehow, ends up managing Chesterfield FC, with that record! Personally, that kind of record does not fill me with confidence. Even when AS came to the Proact with their pressing, high-tempo play, we still managed to beat them, even though they over-ran our midfield! Just before PC joined us, AS had lost four on the spin and had just been tanked 5-0 by Oxford; they had only won 2 in 10 and they were against Wimbledon and Aldershot!!!!!

Furthermore, PC used the exact rhetoric when at AS, he said their aim was to win the league and believed it was possible; described the club as a 'fantastic place'; believed the 'players work for the fans' blah blah....

I was very worried when we appointed PC, that hasn't changed; we are in deep doo doo!

There will always be people who tolerate failure. I dont understand why he hasnt signed anyone decent in CM if bossing midfield was ever part of his ethos

[Torteval]

death, on 27 February 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

The same as the 2 men before him - he has a squad where its difficult to know who are your best players, and where to play them to get the best out of them. It was said last season as well, players like DW, while talented individuals, are difficult to accomodate in any particular position.

This may be one way of looking at it, but my feeling is the manager actually makes it difficult to pick his best team. I think there is so much tinkering of formations that he probably needs a squad full of utility players.

He also needs to remember that DW is a proven championship winner at this level, an almost ever-present in our team, and contributed 15 goals. I appreciate the step up found him out last season, but last night he was left out in favour of kids, even though the midfield was crying out for a bit of experience.

Players that bring footballing ability to the team are pretty much sidelined under Cook. He prefers to go down the fit, athletic, never-say-die route which unfortunately sometimes translates into headless-chickens. There does need to be a blend, but on current show its unlikely he'll find it.

[Theloanranger]

At the risk of repeating myself,one of the major downfalls in recent seasons has been our reliance on loan signings. They are not the answer and never will be. What do you actually get,more often than not?. A player who is too good and will never move here permanantly or someone who is no improvement on existing players. The former includes the likes of Hitzelsperger,Clingan,McDermott to name but three. It was okay while it lasted but you cannot hope to build a team around players who are destined for better things. A more recent case was Smalley. A significant contributor during the promotion season,but a player who left for pastures new and left behind a big hole which we were unable to fill.

There are several other factors to consider. How much did we actually know about any player we have taken on loan?. It would seem highly unlikely any scouting was done before the panic button was pressed. They may be reluctant loanees,as good as forced out by their parent club and told to pack their suitcase. In such cases they are never likely to do any more than go through the motions. All players need a bedding in period but a loanee rarely has such a luxury,often expected to slot in from day one simply because he is literally on borrowed time. Most will know nothing about the club,nothing about their team mates,nothing about the style of play and may continue to do the bulk of their training at their parent club. Then there is the question of morale for those players left out in the cold to make way for them,only to be expected to perform at a later date knowing the manager has little or no confidence in them. It,s a throughly short sighted policy which does little to aid continuity,team spirit or results. How can you make plans for a match if half your squad isn,t there?.

The words "young and hungry" are being quoted on here by people who see such players as the way forward. That might be the way forward,but surely we would be much better served by encouraging our own players to come through the system. The team against Aldershot was quite a young one,but I certainly didn,t see very much in the way of hunger or desire. We must end this "quick fix" culture once and for all and plan a sustainable and consistent way forward. There may be a case where a loan signing may prove useful,but never in the way we are doing it at the moment.

[BlueDay]

We've fallen for the same thing this Jan/Feb as we did last season. To improve on the situation "here and now" then we need experienced and solid players not young loanees.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

BlueDay, on 28 February 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

We've fallen for the same thing this Jan/Feb as we did last season. To improve on the situation "here and now" then we need experienced and solid players not young loanees.

Spot on.

[Wooden Spoon]

Torteval, on 28 February 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

This may be one way of looking at it, but my feeling is the manager actually makes it difficult to pick his best team. I think there is so much tinkering of formations that he probably needs a squad full of utility players.

He also needs to remember that DW is a proven championship winner at this level, an almost ever-present in our team, and contributed 15 goals. I appreciate the step up found him out last season, but last night he was left out in favour of kids, even though the midfield was crying out for a bit of experience.

Players that bring footballing ability to the team are pretty much sidelined under Cook. He prefers to go down the fit, athletic, never-say-die route which unfortunately sometimes translates into headless-chickens. There does need to be a blend, but on current show its unlikely he'll find it.

I wasnt trying to single out DW in particular, but you get the picture.

IMO we need to be looking into the lower leagues or reserves of clubs in the Championship for players who will have something to prove and want to build a career. No more signing players simply because they seem to have a good career. Concentrate on building a team, rather than trying to assemble expensive players into a starting 11

[newbold ken]

Theloanranger, on 28 February 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

At the risk of repeating myself,one of the major downfalls in recent seasons has been our reliance on loan signings. They are not the answer and never will be. What do you actually get,more often than not?. A player who is too good and will never move here permanantly or someone who is no improvement on existing players. The former includes the likes of Hitzelsperger,Clingan,McDermott to name but three. It was okay while it lasted but you cannot hope to build a team around players who are destined for better things. A more recent case was Smalley. A significant contributor during the promotion season,but a player who left for pastures new and left behind a big hole which we were unable to fill.

There are several other factors to consider. How much did we actually know about any player we have taken on loan?. It would seem highly unlikely any scouting was done before the panic button was pressed. They may be reluctant loanees,as good as forced out by their parent club and told to pack their suitcase. In such cases they are never likely to do any more than go through the motions. All players need a bedding in period but a loanee rarely has such a luxury,often expected to slot in from day one simply because he is literally on borrowed time. Most will know nothing about the club,nothing about their team mates,nothing about the style of play and may continue to do the bulk of their training at their parent club. Then there is the question of morale for those players left out in the cold to make way for them,only to be expected to perform at a later date knowing the manager has little or no confidence in them. It,s a throughly short sighted policy which does little to aid continuity,team spirit or results. How can you make plans for a match if half your squad isn,t there?.

The words "young and hungry" are being quoted on here by people who see such players as the way forward. That might be the way forward,but surely we would be much better served by encouraging our own players to come through the system. The team against Aldershot was quite a young one,but I certainly didn,t see very much in the way of hunger or desire. We must end this "quick fix" culture once and for all and plan a sustainable and consistent way forward. There may be a case where a loan signing may prove useful,but never in the way we are doing it at the moment.

spot on mate;agree with all of that

[fatfrank]

Theloanranger, on 28 February 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

At the risk of repeating myself,one of the major downfalls in recent seasons has been our reliance on loan signings. They are not the answer and never will be. What do you actually get,more often than not?. A player who is too good and will never move here permanantly or someone who is no improvement on existing players. The former includes the likes of Hitzelsperger,Clingan,McDermott to name but three. It was okay while it lasted but you cannot hope to build a team around players who are destined for better things. A more recent case was Smalley. A significant contributor during the promotion season,but a player who left for pastures new and left behind a big hole which we were unable to fill.

There are several other factors to consider. How much did we actually know about any player we have taken on loan?. It would seem highly unlikely any scouting was done before the panic button was pressed. They may be reluctant loanees,as good as forced out by their parent club and told to pack their suitcase. In such cases they are never likely to do any more than go through the motions. All players need a bedding in period but a loanee rarely has such a luxury,often expected to slot in from day one simply because he is literally on borrowed time. Most will know nothing about the club,nothing about their team mates,nothing about the style of play and may continue to do the bulk of their training at their parent club. Then there is the question of morale for those players left out in the cold to make way for them,only to be expected to perform at a later date knowing the manager has little or no confidence in them. It,s a throughly short sighted policy which does little to aid continuity,team spirit or results. How can you make plans for a match if half your squad isn,t there?.

The words "young and hungry" are being quoted on here by people who see such players as the way forward. That might be the way forward,but surely we would be much better served by encouraging our own players to come through the system. The team against Aldershot was quite a young one,but I certainly didn,t see very much in the way of hunger or desire. We must end this "quick fix" culture once and for all and plan a sustainable and consistent way forward. There may be a case where a loan signing may prove useful,but never in the way we are doing it at the moment.

Whilst I agree in principal to most of what you are saying I feel I must disagree slightly, the last three words of your post at the moment we have no where near the number of loan players that we have had in the past(until last week 1)and the two who were brought in last week were to me brought in for obvious reasons, Clark emergancy cover for cm and a left winger which is a possition we don't seem to be able to fill no matter what(don't ask me why).But PC does seem to be trying to get away from loan players and looking to the lower leagues for his cheap options.And don't forget quite often at least part of a loan players wages are payed by their parent club so there could be instructions from DA to the effect of no more money for permanant signings get a loan player in.I fully agree we should be encouraging our own young players wherever possible.

[Goku]

bonnyman, on 27 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

which makes you wonder why we bought oshea....this club is addicted to getting in pansy midfielders

He's a very good player going through a bad run of form not helped by playing him on the wings recently.

[BlueRover52]

Obviously PC's team is struggling on the goals front and apparently working hard on this so hopefully it'll pay dividends this w/e.Commented that his chopping and changing each week has to end if we are to achieve some consistency in the teams play.So he's intent on going 4-4-2 and sticking with that for remainder of season.

[Torteval]

BlueRover52, on 01 March 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Obviously PC's team is struggling on the goals front and apparently working hard on this so hopefully it'll pay dividends this w/e.Commented that his chopping and changing each week has to end if we are to achieve some consistency in the teams play.So he's intent on going 4-4-2 and sticking with that for remainder of season.

Very interesting seeing Cook's comments today, copied from CFC site below:



“One thing that’s been happening of late, there’s been too much chopping and changing of teams. Every week we seem to have different players coming in.


“You can’t keep on. We must get a settled formation, we must get some balance to our team in terms of finishing the season.


“It starts at Dagenham on Saturday. We’re going to try and play a certain way until the end of the season, if possible. That way will be two striker up front.”


I don't think many people would wish to see Cook leave anytime soon. He does seem to have a certain charisma and boundless enthusiasm which may be good qualities for our manager to have at the moment.

He does seem to have been losing his way a little in recent games and its heartening to see his thoughts here. He's clearly drawn the same conclusion as many fans, and is taking action.

We need to ensure our safety first and the time for tinkering has gone. Our defence is playing well enough and we have options for defensive midfielder. A rock solid 4-4-2 for the last 12 games is bang on the mark.

And barring injury, that should be Richards and Jack as the front two at least until we are safe. They are both proven goalscorers, and either one, or both will find their scoring boots over the remaining games. What's more, their names on the team sheet give the opposition plenty to worry about, something the team as a whole may be able to use to our advantage.

Hopefully, the steadying of the ship starts here.

This post has been edited by Torteval: 01 March 2013 - 08:11 PM