[Hector]

Chesterfield goalkeeping coach Mark Crossley told BBC Radio Sheffield:

"We have been really pleased with how the players have responded to John leaving.

"We've stepped training up a little bit and made it a bit more difficult and we think the players are getting fitter by the game.

"We've been told that the board aren't looking to interview anyone at the moment because they believe me and Tommy have the credentials to take the club forward.

"We have to monitor Jack (Lester) because he isn't going to play 46 games, but if we manage him properly then we can get the best out of him."

Interesting about 'stepping up training/getting fitter'... Obviously the rumours had substance regarding JS's approach to training...

[Mac's Back]

Rumours weren't really needed. Just watching what was in front of you for the last 20 mins of each game clearly showed fitness to be an issue.

[Andy Spireite]

Mac, on 18 September 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Rumours weren't really needed. Just watching what was in front of you for the last 20 mins of each game clearly showed fitness to be an issue.

Rather than being Sheridan's fault isn't that more Shinner's area? With a full time fitness coach on the books there really should be no excuse for the team not being fit IMHO.

[dalekpete]

Andy Spireite, on 18 September 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Rather than being Sheridan's fault isn't that more Shinner's area? With a full time fitness coach on the books there really should be no excuse for the team not being fit IMHO.

I am not sure how much Shane could do after the players had been sent home...

[Andy Spireite]

dalekpete, on 18 September 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I am not sure how much Shane could do after the players had been sent home...

Perhaps I am naive Pete, I may well be, but I assumed "training" was your typical ball control, tactics, set pieces, etc and that was not the full extent of the expectations on the players for general fitness (such as going to the gym or for a bike ride or a run, etc).

If my job was specifically earmarked as "fitness coach" the only thing I would care about would be getting the players as fit as I could such that I could not be accused of failing in my job. Are you saying that Shinner is such a shrinking voilet that he would never have had the balls to go to Sheridan and tell him that the players needed extra fitness training?

[Town_Fan]

How can they change things since they are obviously of the same hive mind collective with John Sheridan feeding them their thoughts 24/7?

[Mac's Back]

Andy Spireite, on 18 September 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Rather than being Sheridan's fault isn't that more Shinner's area? With a full time fitness coach on the books there really should be no excuse for the team not being fit IMHO.

I suppose it has to go down as a collective failing, given that we've hitherto had the 'luxury' of a 3 man management team. I'd expect both TW and MC to have had some input - if not, why were they needed? I know little about the exact hierarchical structure, but could it be that Shinner was simply following instructions?

Personally I think in well-rewarded, professional athletes a lack of fitness is unacceptable. Being every bit as fit as your opponents should be a minimum requirement. Likewise, I find it hard to listen to managers talking of opponents being 'set piece specialists.' Every team has more than enough time to work on such things on the training ground. Specialists are just the ones who can be bothered to put in the effort.

This post has been edited by Mac's Back: 18 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

[valemadness]

Andy Spireite, on 18 September 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Perhaps I am naive Pete, I may well be, but I assumed "training" was your typical ball control, tactics, set pieces, etc and that was not the full extent of the expectations on the players for general fitness (such as going to the gym or for a bike ride or a run, etc).

If my job was specifically earmarked as "fitness coach" the only thing I would care about would be getting the players as fit as I could such that I could not be accused of failing in my job. Are you saying that Shinner is such a shrinking voilet that he would never have had the balls to go to Sheridan and tell him that the players needed extra fitness training?

The whole point is that Shez would only do training from 10 - 12.30. Any other training was undertaken by the players themselves. If Shiiner had gone against Shez and taken extra fitness training and a player got injured, that's it for Shinner. It was also knocking the nails in Shez's coffin, although one of the final ones would have been when it was suggested that Shez needed to do extra training with Bowery on his 1st touch, and Shez said he only works from 10 - 12.30 and that's it!!! It's a shame because in our championship season Shinner did a lot of spinning classes etc, but if people had noticed last season, most of the players seemed to be tweeting at 1pm about going to Nando's or Frankie and Bennys.
I really think that in the last 2 weeks the fitness seems to have improved, and will continue to now that Wrighty has the players doing more training and Shinner is again more involved with this.

[Andy Spireite]

valemadness, on 18 September 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

The whole point is that Shez would only do training from 10 - 12.30. Any other training was undertaken by the players themselves. If Shiiner had gone against Shez and taken extra fitness training and a player got injured, that's it for Shinner. It was also knocking the nails in Shez's coffin, although one of the final ones would have been when it was suggested that Shez needed to do extra training with Bowery on his 1st touch, and Shez said he only works from 10 - 12.30 and that's it!!! It's a shame because in our championship season Shinner did a lot of spinning classes etc, but if people had noticed last season, most of the players seemed to be tweeting at 1pm about going to Nando's or Frankie and Bennys.
I really think that in the last 2 weeks the fitness seems to have improved, and will continue to now that Wrighty has the players doing more training and Shinner is again more involved with this.

I'll take this as an official answer as it is written as if you know exactly the situation at the club.

So in answer to my question the answer is "no, Shinner did not have the balls to stand up to Sheridan about the teams lack of fitness and wasn't, by definition, performing his job to the required standard".

I'm genuinely surprised by this to be honest and it doesn't stack up either, even if JS wanted an easy life and to be gone by 12:30 it shouldn't stop the other coaching staff working with the players on other areas (such as fitness) after he had departed, especially if (as you say) thi swas previously happening a couple of seasons ago.

[Bonnyman]

Hector, on 18 September 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Chesterfield goalkeeping coach Mark Crossley told BBC Radio Sheffield:

"We have been really pleased with how the players have responded to John leaving.

"We've stepped training up a little bit and made it a bit more difficult and we think the players are getting fitter by the game.

"We've been told that the board aren't looking to interview anyone at the moment because they believe me and Tommy have the credentials to take the club forward.

"We have to monitor Jack (Lester) because he isn't going to play 46 games, but if we manage him properly then we can get the best out of him."

Interesting about 'stepping up training/getting fitter'... Obviously the rumours had substance regarding JS's approach to training...

i have heard from a good source about the fitness levels of the team but it begs one question,if you were the fitness coach for the team would you not take pride in getting your men as fit as possible and if you were the fitness coach would you not challenge the manager if you were not getting enough prep time.we are talking about athletes here not park footballers,these are full time profesionals,why did shinner not challenge the manager or kick up a fuss if they were not fit,it sounds to me as though sheridan was nothing more than a complete bell end but shinner must have some sort of partial blame in this.

[valemadness]

Andy Spireite, on 18 September 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

I'll take this as an official answer as it is written as if you know exactly the situation at the club.

So in answer to my question the answer is "no, Shinner did not have the balls to stand up to Sheridan about the teams lack of fitness and wasn't, by definition, performing his job to the required standard".

I'm genuinely surprised by this to be honest and it doesn't stack up either, even if JS wanted an easy life and to be gone by 12:30 it shouldn't stop the other coaching staff working with the players on other areas (such as fitness) after he had departed, especially if (as you say) thi swas previously happening a couple of seasons ago.

Not an official answer from the club obviously but anyone with eyes could see what time players were arriving at the ground and what time they were leaving. Also I have been told a few things, however I can't say whether Shinner challenged Shez about the training. I have heard that Wright had disagreed with some of Shez's ideas and also that Shez had ignored a lot of the scouting done by Paul Mitchell too.

[satnav]

When I heard TW on the radio the other day he was talking about energy levels in the team rather than fitness and I think there is a difference between the two. If a team is going through a bad run of form that must have an impact on the players confidence and energy levels, even the most super fit player can often look knackered and dejected when he is chasing shadows all afternoon. When a team is doing well and on a winning run confidence is a lot higher and so are energy levels. When Mo Farrah ran in his second final at the Olympics he must have been absolutely knackered but he was able to lift himself to another level because he was very confident after winning his first final and he also had 80,000 people urging him on.

[dim view]

bonnyman, on 18 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

shinner must have some sort of partial blame in this.

it seems to me someone needs to get Norm's comments clarified before this gets out of hand. To conclude that Shinner has been negligent is out of order.

I noticed last season that the sprinklers stopped being deployed before games and at half time. That would be Ant's fault then?.

[born in 1866]

bonnyman, on 18 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

i have heard from a good source about the fitness levels of the team but it begs one question,if you were the fitness coach for the team would you not take pride in getting your men as fit as possible and if you were the fitness coach would you not challenge the manager if you were not getting enough prep time.we are talking about athletes here not park footballers,these are full time profesionals,why did shinner not challenge the manager or kick up a fuss if they were not fit,it sounds to me as though sheridan was nothing more than a complete bell end but shinner must have some sort of partial blame in this.

Who knows if Shinner didn't challenge JS?
We know JS set the training schedule and if that meant 30 minutes per day allocated to Shinner then that's all he got to work on their fitness levels.

Has anybody heard Shinner say he was happy with their fitness level?

Please don't blame someone without the facts.

[Bonnyman]

born in 1866, on 18 September 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Who knows if Shinner didn't challenge JS?
We know JS set the training schedule and if that meant 30 minutes per day allocated to Shinner then that's all he got to work on their fitness levels.

Has anybody heard Shinner say he was happy with their fitness level?

Please don't blame someone without the facts.

Lets put it this way then,is sheridan on gardening leave on a results basis or is he on gardening leave because of a dereliction of his duties,a complete failure to get his squad into a fit state to start a season is a sackable offence in itself i would have thought.Whatever, it appears like the management and board are itching to spill the beans on how bad a job he was doing.

[meowdmucker]

valemadness, on 18 September 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

The whole point is that Shez would only do training from 10 - 12.30. Any other training was undertaken by the players themselves. If Shiiner had gone against Shez and taken extra fitness training and a player got injured, that's it for Shinner. It was also knocking the nails in Shez's coffin, although one of the final ones would have been when it was suggested that Shez needed to do extra training with Bowery on his 1st touch, and Shez said he only works from 10 - 12.30 and that's it!!! It's a shame because in our championship season Shinner did a lot of spinning classes etc, but if people had noticed last season, most of the players seemed to be tweeting at 1pm about going to Nando's or Frankie and Bennys.
I really think that in the last 2 weeks the fitness seems to have improved, and will continue to now that Wrighty has the players doing more training and Shinner is again more involved with this.

Makes you wonder what the hell he did before then really.

[Hector]

bonnyman, on 18 September 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Lets put it this way then,is sheridan on gardening leave on a results basis or is he on gardening leave because of a dereliction of his duties,a complete failure to get his squad into a fit state to start a season is a sackable offence in itself i would have thought.Whatever, it appears like the management and board are itching to spill the beans on how bad a job he was doing.

I heard a snippet on Saturday that JS is no longer on 'gardening leave', but now officially sacked. Don't shoot me down for this as I'm just passing the info on. I would imagine if he's been sacked then his contract would have been cancelled and a suitable severance payment made. Again, don't shoot me down for this, just speculation.

[dim view]

bonnyman, on 18 September 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Whatever, it appears like the management and board are itching to spill the beans on how bad a job he was doing.

I think the opposite is the case. They want him to get another job asap.

Another angle on this is that Les will presumably be less than happy with what Norm has said, and Norm in turn presumably doesn't give a monkeys. As I said, he needs to clarify what he meant. One for our new band of intrepid media men tonight?.

[Beelzebub]

Hector, on 18 September 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

if he's been sacked then his contract would have been cancelled and a suitable severance payment made.

depends on the grounds for dismissal and the terms of the contract. Most contracts would include a clause for summary dismissal without notice or compensation for cases of gross misconduct.