[metallilad]

Spinach chin, on 19 September 2011 - 06:53 PM, said:

if you saw the same line of work elsewhere for say an extra 33% would you take it?

No. I earn enough money now to make sure that my family............I'm going over old ground here.
Look, let me put it this way.
I've just been promoted into a management role working for a family firm, I know where they want to take the firm and how we've got to do it.
My boss knows that whatever I do I put my heart and soul into it.
He knows where he stands with me and I know where I stand with him.
This is a situation what I have worked hard to get into over the last 15 years (starting as a "mature" apprentice) and its a situation that I want to stay in helping them achieve their goals aswell as my own.
I have been accused of being "old fashioned" and for a while I laughed it off but now I know what people were getting at when they said it.
So don't bother asking me if I would move anywhere for more money cos' I won't.
Loyalty is No 1 on my list and always will be, believe me when I say this. My opinion will not be altered in the slightest on this one.

[Ant84]

metallilad, on 19 September 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

No. I earn enough money now to make sure that my family............I'm going over old ground here.
Look, let me put it this way.
I've just been promoted into a management role working for a family firm, I know where they want to take the firm and how we've got to do it.
My boss knows that whatever I do I put my heart and soul into it.
He knows where he stands with me and I know where I stand with him.
This is a situation what I have worked hard to get into over the last 15 years (starting as a "mature" apprentice) and its a situation that I want to stay in helping them achieve their goals aswell as my own.
I have been accused of being "old fashioned" and for a while I laughed it off but now I know what people were getting at when they said it.
So don't bother asking me if I would move anywhere for more money cos' I won't.
Loyalty is No 1 on my list and always will be, believe me when I say this. My opinion will not be altered in the slightest on this one.

Everybody's situations are different, id say 90% of the time ppl move for more money but look at Stevie G, he could have left years ago for double his wage...

[metallilad]

SpireiteFitzy, on 19 September 2011 - 03:18 AM, said:

What on earth is your problem with Davies? Let's look at it straight shall we. Davies comes to Chesterfield and is given a one year contract, in that one year he performs excellently and fires 25 goals on our way to promotion. Having loyally served out the contract he was given, he then gets an offer from a club 2 divisions higher offering him the chance to further his career and earn more money which he accepts. He hasnt bailed in the middle of a contract, he hasnt shown any disrespect to the club, and he gave it his all while he was here. Please tell me where this turns him into a bad guy.

If your gonna compare this to a 9-5 worker this is how it would be, he's earnt a promotion for hard work which results in career advancement and more money. And in a career which doesnt last anywhere near as long as a regular worker, the opportunity is just what a player looks for.

There, that's your childish comment blown away with sensible reasoning.

Right then! Never been one for backing down from a good debate so here we go.
Firstly its an opinion. Unlike your quote at the end there which was put in to make me look silly. But I don't care what you think about my comment because my opinion aint gonna change regardless of what you post, I wouldn't expect yours to change either.
However. I'm gonna show you some stats here and just for one second take away the sentiment that you have for Davies and look at it objectively.

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2003–2004 Manchester City 0 (0)
2004–2006 Oxford United 48 (8)
2006–2007 Hellas Verona 1 (0)
2006–2007 → Wolves (loan) 23 (0)
2007–2009 Oldham Athletic 44 (10)
2008 → Stockport County (loan) 9 (5)
2009–2010 Brighton & Hove Albion 21 (1)
2009 → Yeovil Town (loan) 4 (0)
2010 → Port Vale (loan) 24 (7)
2010–2011 Chesterfield 41 (23)
2011– Barnsley 4 (0)

This is Craig Davies' career history. What these stats don't actually show you that he started his youth team career at Shrewsbury Town so if you want you can add that on aswell its up to you. This is a career of a 25 year old who since leaving school 9 years ago has played at eleven different clubs.
Just look at the stats again. Look at his stats when he played for Sheridan at Oldham and (obviously) Chesterfield.
These two times have been quite profitable for him.
Now any footballer who thinks of their career only have to look on Wikipedia to see the stats to find out what works and what doesn't, its plain to see that when he's playing for Sheridan it works.
We all agree that Tommy Lee has got the capability to play at a higher level and lots of rumours were banded around about him being offered deals left right and centre. He stayed. Maybe we offered him more money than a championship club or a bigger league one club did? Maybe he likes the sound of the town fans singing about his long flowing locks? Or maybe he saw how his career has been enhanced under the tutorlidge of Sheridan, Wright and Mark Crossley, that for now he'd be better off improving at us and then going to a higher club. If Craig Davies were bothered about his career all he had to do was look on Wikipedia at the very same stats I've just shown you, only he can't see them cos all he can see is £££££££.He was offered 4k per week (going by what was banded around on here) thats £208,000/year can you live on that? I don't earn any where near that and I live comfortably. I will agree with you on one thing though, a footballers playing career is short but just because they've finished playing football it doesn't mean there working career is over. Alan Shearer is a tv pundit. David D'Auria is a plumber. There's lots of different jobs between those two trades.
I think that the bloke is a footballing mercenary if you don't like it then tough cos I aint gonna lose any sleep over you not liking my comments.

[isleaiw]

Westbars Spireite, on 19 September 2011 - 06:55 PM, said:

So does mine at the moment but it has been 'rewarded' the last two years with two 0.5% pay-rises and frequent cuts to my earning potential in various ways. The next thing is an end to my final salary pension scheme.

Make no bones if I could earn enough more to make it worth my while I'd be off like a shot.

be thankful the pension lasted this long - most went years ago. I was involved when we closed ours to everyone in 2005 - the stats showed that the company would be paying in excess of 30% of an employees salary for us to keep it open. we just couldnt afford it. It had closed to new joiners in 2001, the only thing left was to close completely.

Its a sad fact of life that as we live longer and fewer people work for shorter working lives then the ability to have a well funded retirement is slowly disappearing - unless you are prepared to trade more of the quality of life now to pay for it.

Ian

[DIFH]

Ant84, on 19 September 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Everybody's situations are different, id say 90% of the time ppl move for more money but look at Stevie G, he could have left years ago for double his wage...

There was no loyalty there mate - Liverpool mafia sculking around in the back ground, rumours of all sorts of threats..........

[DIFH]

Spire 12345 (Rotherham 0), on 20 September 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

[Westbars Spireite]

isleaiw, on 20 September 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

be thankful the pension lasted this long - most went years ago. I was involved when we closed ours to everyone in 2005 - the stats showed that the company would be paying in excess of 30% of an employees salary for us to keep it open. we just couldnt afford it. It had closed to new joiners in 2001, the only thing left was to close completely.

Its a sad fact of life that as we live longer and fewer people work for shorter working lives then the ability to have a well funded retirement is slowly disappearing - unless you are prepared to trade more of the quality of life now to pay for it.

Ian

I do pay into it, a couple of years ago they started to show the contribution separately on the pay and gave you the option to opt out and receive it as cash. Effectively it was a sneaky way to save a few quid by tempting people with a few more pounds each month.

[Town_Fan]

My NHS pension has been downgraded in recent times. I had to join the crappier one. It's still amazing though.

[metallilad]

I've often wondered if actually having a pension was just a big waste of time. I've got one but I got it for the sake of having one really. I think investing in property would be a much better way to go. Unfortunately not everybody (me included) can actually afford it.

[Westbars Spireite]

metallilad, on 20 September 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

I've often wondered if actually having a pension was just a big waste of time. I've got one but I got it for the sake of having one really. I think investing in property would be a much better way to go. Unfortunately not everybody (me included) can actually afford it.

The truth, right or wrong, is that if you don't provide for yourself the state currently does.

[isleaiw]

metallilad, on 20 September 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

I've often wondered if actually having a pension was just a big waste of time. I've got one but I got it for the sake of having one really. I think investing in property would be a much better way to go. Unfortunately not everybody (me included) can actually afford it.

well you get tax relief on pension contributions (they are taken from gross pay) whereas to invest in property would be out of net pay....

Not sure that property is such a good way forward now - i doubt that rises in value above inflation rates (if at all) will happen in the next few years.

I think the best pension my kids are going to have will be whatever I leave them - and that will no doubt mainly depend on what I am left!

Ian

[Wooden Spoon]

metallilad, on 19 September 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

No. I earn enough money now to make sure that my family............I'm going over old ground here.
Look, let me put it this way.
I've just been promoted into a management role working for a family firm, I know where they want to take the firm and how we've got to do it.
My boss knows that whatever I do I put my heart and soul into it.
He knows where he stands with me and I know where I stand with him.
This is a situation what I have worked hard to get into over the last 15 years (starting as a "mature" apprentice) and its a situation that I want to stay in helping them achieve their goals aswell as my own.
I have been accused of being "old fashioned" and for a while I laughed it off but now I know what people were getting at when they said it.
So don't bother asking me if I would move anywhere for more money cos' I won't.
Loyalty is No 1 on my list and always will be, believe me when I say this. My opinion will not be altered in the slightest on this one.

Very admirable, but as I said earlier, loyalty wont pay the bills.

I have moved jobs twice in 5 years-each time for a substancial rise. I would be doing myself and my family down if I hadnt moved jobs. We now have a better standard of living than before- so for me its a no brainer. If I was lucky enough that I was secure, could see promotion/career path in front AND was earning enough to pay the bills, have some spare cash etc then maybe I would not have moved.

I would seriously doubt more than 5% of people are in that position though - you shouldnt knock them.

[Kent]

warfey is a spireite, on 17 September 2011 - 07:13 PM, said:

told them i was chesterfield and thanks for clarkey , they said ure welcome to him , hed never play for di canio again and was on 6k aa week , on way back at burton they seemed amazed hed got three

Was his name Peter Brady... Dave

[isleaiw]

Spinach chin, on 20 September 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

If I was lucky enough that I was secure, could see promotion/career path in front AND was earning enough to pay the bills, have some spare cash etc then maybe I would not have moved.

Does anyone ever get in that position - nas i earned more my bills went up and no matter what I earned I could always spend it all!

[metallilad]

Spinach chin, on 20 September 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Very admirable, but as I said earlier, loyalty wont pay the bills.

I have moved jobs twice in 5 years-each time for a substancial rise. I would be doing myself and my family down if I hadnt moved jobs. We now have a better standard of living than before- so for me its a no brainer. If I was lucky enough that I was secure, could see promotion/career path in front AND was earning enough to pay the bills, have some spare cash etc then maybe I would not have moved.

I would seriously doubt more than 5% of people are in that position though - you shouldnt knock them.

Don't knock them???? Knock who? Where have I knocked anybody who struggles?
My loyalty pays bills, so you can't tell me that if Davies had stayed for one more season earning the reported 4k/week then his loyalty would'nt have been paid.
If 4k/week isn't enough for a bloke then they are money grabbers. Plain and simple.

[isleaiw]

metallilad, on 20 September 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

If 4k/week isn't enough for a bloke then they are money grabbers. Plain and simple.

No they arent - he has another 8 years at the top of his game, and then the future is very uncertain. And as i understand it the pension provisions for former professionals have been hit pretty hard just like they have for the rest of us.

So if he was offered a choice of 8k or 4k and decided that the difference between them over a three year contract (600k ish) would mean the difference between a pleasant post football life and a return to earth with a bump, why is he being a money grabber.

Just because you have decided that you are happy with your lot doesnt mean that those that want more are money grabbers....

Ian

[Wooden Spoon]

metallilad, on 20 September 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

Don't knock them???? Knock who? Where have I knocked anybody who struggles?
My loyalty pays bills, so you can't tell me that if Davies had stayed for one more season earning the reported 4k/week then his loyalty would'nt have been paid.
If 4k/week isn't enough for a bloke then they are money grabbers. Plain and simple.

How long have you been in your job? 15 years you say. How many more years do you expect to be in the job, another 20?

How many years will davies earn £4k a week?

For him, its a 2 year deal that must seem like a lottery win. In a few years he wont be pro footballer, so why not maximise what he can earn now to ease the future without football?

isleaiw, on 20 September 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

No they arent - he has another 8 years at the top of his game, and then the future is very uncertain. And as i understand it the pension provisions for former professionals have been hit pretty hard just like they have for the rest of us.

So if he was offered a choice of 8k or 4k and decided that the difference between them over a three year contract (600k ish) would mean the difference between a pleasant post football life and a return to earth with a bump, why is he being a money grabber.

Just because you have decided that you are happy with your lot doesnt mean that those that want more are money grabbers....

Ian

indeed

[Skywalker]

SpireiteFitzy, on 19 September 2011 - 03:18 AM, said:

What on earth is your problem with Davies? Let's look at it straight shall we. Davies comes to Chesterfield and is given a one year contract, in that one year he performs excellently and fires 25 goals on our way to promotion. Having loyally served out the contract he was given, he then gets an offer from a club 2 divisions higher offering him the chance to further his career and earn more money which he accepts. He hasnt bailed in the middle of a contract, he hasnt shown any disrespect to the club, and he gave it his all while he was here. Please tell me where this turns him into a bad guy.

If your gonna compare this to a 9-5 worker this is how it would be, he's earnt a promotion for hard work which results in career advancement and more money. And in a career which doesnt last anywhere near as long as a regular worker, the opportunity is just what a player looks for.

There, that's your childish comment blown away with sensible reasoning.

Very good post.

Money is a key element for footballers as it is for the vast majority of people. I was listening to Gordon Taylor on the radio recently and he said the PFA ENCOURAGE players to earn as much as they can whilst in the game. That said, every footballer wants to play at the highest level and Barnsley were an opportunity to play at a higher level and earn more money. I can't think of any other player who would have turned down such an opportunity.

[metallilad]

I'm not gonna change my views on this.
This is how I feel about Craig Davies, like I've stated on a previous thread this is a player who has never stayed in an area long enough to get a postcode.
My views are this:-
He is 25 years old and played at 11 different clubs which is more than 1 club for each year that he's worked as a proffesional footballer.
He's never really had success anywhere that he's played at apart from when he's played for JS.
If he was thinking about his career then he would have stayed here.
Personally I think he signed the one year deal in the hope that he could bang the goals in gaining recognition and get a better deal. Well it worked for him but I think that its a wrong way to be looking at things, why not sign a two year deal or even sign the initial one year deal then sign another one year deal with a minimum release clause in it. Evatt and Folan did it so why not Davies? £££££££ thats why, he would have not been able to walk away from us and get more money.
I'm not trying to turn you against him, you all have your own views I'm just trying to get my point across so you can see why I feel that the bloke is ruled by money.

This post has been edited by metallilad: 20 September 2011 - 09:10 PM