[Westbars Spireite]

I think the talk about Rotherham would be the same if it were any other club in our league. Presumably any supplier they deal with no insists on cash up front?

[Beelzebub]

Westbars Spireite, on Jul 11 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

I think the talk about Rotherham would be the same if it were any other club in our league. Presumably any supplier they deal with no insists on cash up front?

I imagine they will have great difficulties in getting anybody to build their new ground. If you were running a building/builders supply company would you touch them with a barge pole? They have to be back in Rotherham in a couple of years or be thrown out of the League. From our experience I would say that is impossible. They have yet to identify a site, have all the planning issues to sort out, finances to arrange (if they can) before they get to the stage we're at - and we still have a year before we move in. Realistically they have no chance and would seem to be relying on the FL being weak once more and letting them get away with it again. I think they will get a very unpleasant surprise. Nobody will shed any tears, particularly as they are spending money as though it was going out of fashion (again!).

[DIFH]

Beelzebub, on Jul 11 2009, 10:14 PM, said:

I imagine they will have great difficulties in getting anybody to build their new ground. If you were running a building/builders supply company would you touch them with a barge pole? They have to be back in Rotherham in a couple of years or be thrown out of the League. From our experience I would say that is impossible. They have yet to identify a site, have all the planning issues to sort out, finances to arrange (if they can) before they get to the stage we're at - and we still have a year before we move in. Realistically they have no chance and would seem to be relying on the FL being weak once more and letting them get away with it again. I think they will get a very unpleasant surprise. Nobody will shed any tears, particularly as they are spending money as though it was going out of fashion (again!).

I would think exactly the opposite. Their owner is well connected in the construction industry and has financial credibility. The current state of the construction industry will ensure there'll be no shortage of competative bids and the FL will ensure above anything that they are financially guaranteed before a grant is offerred or confirmed.

[dim view]

Beelzebub, on Jul 11 2009, 10:14 PM, said:

I imagine they will have great difficulties in getting anybody to build their new ground. If you were running a building/builders supply company would you touch them with a barge pole? They have to be back in Rotherham in a couple of years or be thrown out of the League. From our experience I would say that is impossible. They have yet to identify a site, have all the planning issues to sort out, finances to arrange (if they can) before they get to the stage we're at - and we still have a year before we move in. Realistically they have no chance and would seem to be relying on the FL being weak once more and letting them get away with it again. I think they will get a very unpleasant surprise. Nobody will shed any tears, particularly as they are spending money as though it was going out of fashion (again!).

Does anybody know if Millmoor is running into disrepair?. If not, surely the obvious logic here is that a secret deal with Booth has been negotiated.

[DIFH]

dim view, on Jul 12 2009, 08:28 AM, said:

Does anybody know if Millmoor is running into disrepair?. If not, surely the obvious logic here is that a secret deal with Booth has been negotiated.

Can't see it they're locked into agreement at The Soulness arena. No goodwill towards the Booths anyway.

[Beelzebub]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on Jul 12 2009, 07:55 AM, said:

I would think exactly the opposite. Their owner is well connected in the construction industry and has financial credibility. The current state of the construction industry will ensure there'll be no shortage of competative bids and the FL will ensure above anything that they are financially guaranteed before a grant is offerred or confirmed.

I disagree. The construction industry may be desperate for work but given Rotherham's history will be very, very cautious. I do not think that any bank would allow any advances for such a project as they are a very bad risk. Their credit rating will be shocking given their insolvency habit. I don't know how rich the current owner is but unless he has £15 million in loose change burning a hole in his pocket they will struggle.

They will not be eligible for any grants from the football foundation unless all the monies paid for the new stand at Millmoor were repaid. Each club is allowed a certain amount and Rotherham have already used theirs. On past history, even if they did eventually repay all the grant money, I would imagine any new application would not be a foregone conclusion.

All this will delay the project beyond the FL deadline. I for one hope that, for once, the FL have the courage of their convictions. Rotherham have again failed to help their cause by their profligate spending.

[DIFH]

Beelzebub, on Jul 12 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

I disagree. The construction industry may be desperate for work but given Rotherham's history will be very, very cautious. I do not think that any bank would allow any advances for such a project as they are a very bad risk. Their credit rating will be shocking given their insolvency habit. I don't know how rich the current owner is but unless he has £15 million in loose change burning a hole in his pocket they will struggle.

They will not be eligible for any grants from the football foundation unless all the monies paid for the new stand at Millmoor were repaid. Each club is allowed a certain amount and Rotherham have already used theirs. On past history, even if they did eventually repay all the grant money, I would imagine any new application would not be a foregone conclusion.

All this will delay the project beyond the FL deadline. I for one hope that, for once, the FL have the courage of their convictions. Rotherham have again failed to help their cause by their profligate spending.

Re finances, apparently it's a gang of 3 and their all millionaires, according to PAC man anyway.

[Rodney's Moustache]

pac17, on Jul 11 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

dave i was talking to a member of his family the other day and shock horror guess what Rotherham never tried to sign him that's why he joined cheaterfield

rodney did you think that up all by yourself or did you need help your teacher will be pleased,pleased that you can put a sentence together......Darren Brown must have been laughing when he took over cheaterfield ,that he had taken over a club that were that thick and stupid to fall for his scams and he nearly got away with it ............

why are cheaterfield fans so jealous and obsessed with Rotherham United you have a new owner

No I did not need help my teacher you dyslexic Chav.

[Goku]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Jul 11 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

Why do you respond to him then?

Cos it's so hard not to

[DIFH]

MP-Spire, on Jul 12 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

They'll need to be multi millionaires and unless they're prepared to act personally as guarantors for the build, no one will be offering credit to RUFC unless they're suicidal.

Even after all that has gone before with the Banks, I bet there is someone out there tempting them with big interest payments.

[pac17]

a few fact lads construction company Henry Boots will be building our new ground,Construction team and finances already in place just waiting for location,with the new training complex we are just waiting for planning remission construction team and finances are in place,
Grant money to the FL does not have to be repaid FL wrote it off.
we have also new sponsors and people who was involved with Rotherham before are on board even them who lost money because they know under the new owners they will be payed.
we have 3 more years to move back to Rotherham or have to pay £750k to the FL which will be payed by the council.

our chairman has stated that there is still money available for more players

Millmoor is been turned into a greyhound or a speedway track well it was last i heard

This post has been edited by pac17: 12 July 2009 - 11:54 AM

[kevspireites]

pac17, on Jul 12 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

a few fact lads construction company Henry Boots will be building our new ground,Construction team and finances already in place just waiting for location,with the new training complex we are just waiting for planning remission construction team and finances are in place,

is there evidence to support this or just the chairman saying its ready?

[Beelzebub]

pac17, on Jul 12 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

a few fact lads construction company Henry Boots will be building our new ground,Construction team and finances already in place just waiting for location,with the new training complex we are just waiting for planning remission construction team and finances are in place,
Grant money to the FL does not have to be repaid FL wrote it off.
we have also new sponsors and people who was involved with Rotherham before are on board even them who lost money because they know under the new owners they will be payed.
we have 3 more years to move back to Rotherham or have to pay £750k to the FL which will be payed by the council.

our chairman has stated that there is still money available for more players

Millmoor is been turned into a greyhound or a speedway track well it was last i heard

I love optimism, especially totally unrealistic optimism!

So, everything is in place, apart from the small problem of a missing location, no problem there then. As we know finding a suitable location is easy and can be completed to full planning permission in, oh about 15 years!

First I heard of the grant money being written off, last I heard was that it was being treated as a football creditor and needed to be repaid in full as a prerequisite to the new club being allowed into the league, but obviously I must bow to your siperior knowledge. However, if the money hasn't been repaid then no grants are available for the new ground - this will leave a £2m shortfall on what honest clubs could expect in grant aid.

As to moving back to Rotherham, you are wrong about it simply being a matter of paying a fine if you don't make it (and in typical Millers fashion you have already designated somebody else to pay your fines for you - I don't think the District Auditor will look kindly on your council paying any fine!) you will be thrown out of the league - see the quote from the Star on 12th July 2008 below
"The club must also return to Rotherham inside the next four years. If they do not, a £750,000 bond paid to the League will be forfeited and the club will be excluded from the Football League."
Your new Directors had to agree to this before the league would allow them to play last season. Which bit of 'excluded from the Football League' do you not understand.

I can understand your King Canute attitude as the thought of being thrown out of the league can't be a pleasant one but you need to realise that it is a very likely prospect. You will not be able to acquire land, go through the whole planning process, get funding in place, build a new ground and move in within the required timescale. No chance whatsoever. Your only hope is for the Fotball League to agree to an extension and I suspect that you may be very disappointed. Rotherham have lost a lot of friends by the way they have conducted themselves over the last decade, particularly so since the most recent exit from administration. Expect to be treated a lot more severely than Luton were unless you follow the FL demands to the letter.

[pac17]

beezlebub very good post but the ground will be built, according to people at the club (who kows better than me)we are six months a head of schedule, who am i to doubt them, they say that finances are in place and Henry Boots construction will build the ground, the site for the ground will be named within two months with help from Roger Stone (council leader)he will push through planning permission.
The council have guaranteed the £750k but it won't come to that, as for being kicked out of the league it must be true if it was in the star.........

Rotherham will be back in Rotherham with in 3 years and hopefully not in this division

as for the club losing friends over the decade is that your point of view or do you have proof of the people who have fallen out with us except cheaterfield fans because they are obsessed with the millers anyway

[Beelzebub]

pac17, on Jul 12 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

as for the club losing friends over the decade is that your point of view or do you have proof of the people who have fallen out with us except cheaterfield fans because they are obsessed with the millers anyway

Having spoken to fans of every club in the division last season I didn't find a single one with a good word to say about Rotherham. There is a lot of ill-feeling out there especially from the clubs that struggle to pay their way and live within their means. You can't travel away from home much if you haven't realised this.

As to your optimism re your new ground - you will need it. Council leaders can't just push through planning permission as you seem to think, it is very complicated and full of legal pitfalls. It took us years to achieve even though we had the full backing of the council and our new site was included on the local plan as a football ground. As you don't have this advantage your process will be even longer, and that doesn't include any possible public enquiry or referral to government. If you want to know how difficult it can get have a look at the problems Brighton have had. I repeat, it is very unlikely that you will meet the FL deadline. Your directors have to be positive in public, in private I suspect they are worried.

The Star was right in reporting that the FL will expel you if you don't meet the deadline. I suggest you read the statement the FL made at the time.

[pac17]

Beelzebub we'll just have to wait and see....................

Mp-Spire !100% confident, i have every faith in the new owners we will be back in Rotherham before the 3 years are up...........

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

MP-Spire, on Jul 12 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

How confident are you that you'll be back in Rotherham in your own new stadium within 3 years? Joking aside, I'd be bricking it!

They haven't a prayer but we all know the FL will back down