[isleaiw1]

Wooden Spoon, on 16 April 2025 - 11:42 PM, said:

I don’t know S+D but maybe he’s from whitwell?


Why is your first response to shout “he’s a wirch” rather than ask is that a real thing?

First response - have you proof of that... sounds fair to me

Otherwise have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf...?

[isleaiw1]

PontePete, on 16 April 2025 - 08:12 PM, said:

A-ha, that's called 'underwriting' my friend (and I'm a broker not an insurer, but I can see why an insurer would want an increased premium in this scenario), you may or may not be familiar with the term 'Moral Hazard' that is used in the insurance industry? Think insuring an unoccupied building in an area with a high crime rate/antisocial behaviour, insuring a car whose owner has previous drink driving convictions etc

And as my old boss used to say in my very first insurance job, if they don't like the premium tell the client they do have another choice, they can always self insure if they wish. I suspect in this scenario though, the rewards will more than cover the increased premium and then some, otherwise said hotelier wouldn't be doing it.

Get all of the explanations... after all I was placing over £2m of insurance business every year. However, when we looked at at the option to alternative use a couple of hotels, the explanations I got were based on comments that basically said we dont trust them so we charge more. Have they ever seen a stag weekend (or even worse a hen weekend) and the things they get up to? The moral hazard seemed to start off being that it was a bigger risk but when pushed very quickly became we have no data so we assume the worst....

The corresponding reduction in EL and PL premiums didnt seem to be forthcoming on the quote either...

Self insurance not an option for us as it was against group policy.... but the reality is in my 10 years of looking after it we would have been better off if we had. But I'd have been fired twice if we had when we had two sizeable claims! (EXc Covid actually - we did OK from our covid claim )

[isleaiw1]

Burgerman, on 17 April 2025 - 08:43 AM, said:

The RCN are beginning to get tetchy, the Pay Review Body’s report was delivered to the government late last week, but details on the 2025/26 NHS pay awards still haven’t been confirmed.

It won't take much for them to down tools and strike knowing the government will fold to their demands.



What experience is that, Ian?

Said friend who runs dozens of these contracts, I was complaining that we had handed the police a dossier on some room thefts including CCTV footage of the team, dates, times, etc etc, but couldnt get any interest. He commented that is they ring and say a service user was kicking off the police were generally there in minutes....

[Burgerman]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 12:25 PM, said:

Said friend who runs dozens of these contracts, I was complaining that we had handed the police a dossier on some room thefts including CCTV footage of the team, dates, times, etc etc, but couldnt get any interest. He commented that is they ring and say a service user was kicking off the police were generally there in minutes....

His experience then, not yours?

[Valley Blues]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 12:25 PM, said:

Said friend who runs dozens of these contracts, I was complaining that we had handed the police a dossier on some room thefts including CCTV footage of the team, dates, times, etc etc, but couldnt get any interest. He commented that is they ring and say a service user was kicking off the police were generally there in minutes....

Are you seriously comparing a police response to a report of historical room thefts and that of someone kicking off at that point in time?

And was it you or your friend that assumed that the immediate police response was based on ethnicity of the person kicking off as opposed to the fact that someone was kicking off which most reasonable people would expect an immediate police response, regardless of ethnicity?

[isleaiw1]

Burgerman, on 17 April 2025 - 12:40 PM, said:

His experience then, not yours?

Shared experience if you want to be completely pedantic. Thanks for adding to the debate.

[isleaiw1]

Valley Blues, on 17 April 2025 - 01:37 PM, said:

Are you seriously comparing a police response to a report of historical room thefts and that of someone kicking off at that point in time?

And was it you or your friend that assumed that the immediate police response was based on ethnicity of the person kicking off as opposed to the fact that someone was kicking off which most reasonable people would expect an immediate police response, regardless of ethnicity?

Well one involved thousands of pounds worth of personal effects being taken 24 hours earlier, and one was reported by another user from a building with multiple security in site.

I would say one was a situation where the police could do something useful and the other was a waste of their time.

[PontePete]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 12:21 PM, said:

Get all of the explanations... after all I was placing over £2m of insurance business every year. However, when we looked at at the option to alternative use a couple of hotels, the explanations I got were based on comments that basically said we dont trust them so we charge more. Have they ever seen a stag weekend (or even worse a hen weekend) and the things they get up to? The moral hazard seemed to start off being that it was a bigger risk but when pushed very quickly became we have no data so we assume the worst....

The corresponding reduction in EL and PL premiums didnt seem to be forthcoming on the quote either...

Self insurance not an option for us as it was against group policy.... but the reality is in my 10 years of looking after it we would have been better off if we had. But I'd have been fired twice if we had when we had two sizeable claims! (EXc Covid actually - we did OK from our covid claim )

Ok, so some points/questions:

I guess the difference is a paying stag or hen do customer is traceable and can be taken to court if they cause any damage. Isn’t that one of the reasons hotels swipe your credit debit card at the start of your stay? (As well as being able to charge stuff to your room obvs). Can’t see you getting much change out of taking someone fresh off a boat to court with no possessions or legal documents to prove who they even are.

Why would you get a reduction in EL and PL premiums? EL - I would have thought the hotel still required the same/a similar amount of staffing, especially as they would assumingly be pretty much full? Would an insurer think the hotel’s staff are more at risk? PL is housing illegal immigrants less of a Public Liability risk than paying customers? Not sure it is?

And as for insurers saying they don’t trust them so they’re going to charge more, maybe they’re basing it on stuff like this https://www.dailymai...s-migrants.html

This post has been edited by PontePete: 17 April 2025 - 04:00 PM

[isleaiw1]

PontePete, on 17 April 2025 - 03:57 PM, said:

Ok, so some points/questions:

I guess the difference is a paying stag or hen do customer is traceable and can be taken to court if they cause any damage. Isn’t that one of the reasons hotels swipe your credit debit card at the start of your stay? (As well as being able to charge stuff to your room obvs). Can’t see you getting much change out of taking someone fresh off a boat to court with no possessions or legal documents to prove who they even are.

Why would you get a reduction in EL and PL premiums? EL - I would have thought the hotel still required the same/a similar amount of staffing, especially as they would assumingly be pretty much full? Would an insurer think the hotel’s staff are more at risk? PL is housing illegal immigrants less of a Public Liability risk than paying customers? Not sure it is?

And as for insurers saying they don’t trust them so they’re going to charge more, maybe they’re basing it on stuff like this https://www.dailymai...s-migrants.html

I was thinking more burning the place down when they do stuff against the rules or go out leaving straighteners on etc, not going to charge that to their credit cards..

No staff provided by the hotel owner in some of these cases - so no employees except a couple of maintenance employees. And no PL liability as provided by the contractor. I am sure 4 r 5 years in from these things starting they now have the stats to prove the risk is now higher and the rates are the same as normal....

I'm not clicking on a daily fail link, refuse to give them the ad revenue...

[Valley Blues]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 02:30 PM, said:

Well one involved thousands of pounds worth of personal effects being taken 24 hours earlier, and one was reported by another user from a building with multiple security in site.

I would say one was a situation where the police could do something useful and the other was a waste of their time.

So it’s the service users reporting each other now, as opposed to the hotel saying if they ring up and report a ( ethnic minority ) service user kicking off they get a police response? Which is how your post read.

Your written word can be highly misleading.

[Search & Destroy]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 12:16 PM, said:

First response - have you proof of that... sounds fair to me

Otherwise have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf...?

Do you do Facebook?

If so follow the Whitwell is talking group

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2025 - 12:16 PM, said:

Otherwise have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf...?

No it’s not a boy I’ve heard of. Who is he

[Search & Destroy]

I suppose the boy who cried wolf in this analogy is


Young girls are falsely claiming that they are being watched and filmed by migrants

It happens again , baseless accusations


Then it happens for real and a girl is snatched and hacked to death but no one helps because they assume she’s lying?

That’s the fable

[isleaiw1]

Search & Destroy, on 18 April 2025 - 07:52 AM, said:

I suppose the boy who cried wolf in this analogy is


Young girls are falsely claiming that they are being watched and filmed by migrants

It happens again , baseless accusations


Then it happens for real and a girl is snatched and hacked to death but no one helps because they assume she’s lying?

That’s the fable

Well i was thinking more white middlevaged man claims ethnic minority up to no good, Many many times - and then when its true no one believes him...

[isleaiw1]

Valley Blues, on 17 April 2025 - 06:20 PM, said:

So it’s the service users reporting each other now, as opposed to the hotel saying if they ring up and report a ( ethnic minority ) service user kicking off they get a police response? Which is how your post read.

Your written word can be highly misleading.

Apologies, security very rarely needed the police, all ex military and also welfare teams on site to do the calming down. However mixed nationalities who didn't like each other did mean users called the police on each other - which of course the contract operators didn't like s every emergency service visit had to be logged upwards...

[Mr Mercury]

Another 253 yesterday, why does this not even seem to bother the government anymore?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 19 April 2025 - 07:05 AM

[calvin plummers socks]

Mr Mercury, on 19 April 2025 - 07:05 AM, said:

Another 253 yesterday, why does this not even seem to bother the government anymore?

Yet you remained silent when the Tories were in power and the same numbers arrived? Strange

[Burgerman]

calvin plummers socks, on 19 April 2025 - 07:20 AM, said:

Yet you remained silent when the Tories were in power and the same numbers arrived? Strange

He didn’t

[Wooden Spoon]

Burgerman, on 19 April 2025 - 07:28 AM, said:

He didn’t

😂

Good old CPS

[Goku]

https://fullfact.org...y-torsten-bell/

We will *only* be paying an extra £31 billion quid on state pension thanks to the triple lock by the end of parliament.

When will people admit this is a massive Ponzi scheme?

(I’ve realised this is my Ian thing)