[Search & Destroy]

Barnier a shambles

[Mr Mercury]

Search & Destroy, on 04 December 2024 - 10:24 PM, said:

Barnier a shambles

Macron a disgrace and disaster, to think some championed him along with Merkel and Kranky.

[calvin plummers socks]

Hmmmmm ^^ I wonder why 2 random geezers from a small Derbyshire town are getting giddy about a right wing racist party getting elected in a foreign country?

[turrhall]

The centre enabling the right at the expense of the left, who'd have thunk it

[Mr Mercury]

turrhall, on 04 December 2024 - 10:44 PM, said:

The centre enabling the right at the expense of the left, who'd have thunk it

Just a Macron shambles really.

[turrhall]

Mr Mercury, on 04 December 2024 - 10:45 PM, said:

Just a Macron shambles really.

I don't disagree - just interesting to see who benefits from it all

[Mr Mercury]

turrhall, on 04 December 2024 - 10:46 PM, said:

I don't disagree - just interesting to see who benefits from it all

Macron will do his best to keep his top dog spot

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

So to be clear: Trump's election a huge democratic endorsement.

But Macron, Merkel, Sturgeon or Labour win elections and it's sneer and jeer and smear. Or those who deemed Brexit the 'will of the people' sign petitions calling for July's result to be overturned.

Errr...

But anyway, can any of those performing these olympian twists and turns explain why the French government's in turmoil? The issues behind the bizarre sight of the far right supporting left wing votes? Without Googling?

Or is this yet another occasion requests for fact based debate will be met by 'I'm not interested in links or quotes or evidence' evasions...

[turrhall]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 December 2024 - 06:55 AM, said:

So to be clear: Trump's election a huge democratic endorsement.

But Macron, Merkel, Sturgeon or Labour win elections and it's sneer and jeer and smear. Or those who deemed Brexit the 'will of the people' sign petitions calling for July's result to be overturned.

Errr...

But anyway, can any of those performing these olympian twists and turns explain why the French government's in turmoil? The issues behind the bizarre sight of the far right supporting left wing votes? Without Googling?

Or is this yet another occasion requests for fact based debate will be met by 'I'm not interested in links or quotes or evidence' evasions...

The problem here is Macron didn't 'win' the last election - either literally (it wasn't a presidential election) or broadly (the left wing won the most seats). Obviously I, like everyone on here, is not a French political expert so must take it as read that the President is allowed to form the government however he chooses, but it's interesting that the unified left, who partially won on the back of being an anti Le Pen vote AND anti Macron, was excluded from govt in favour of Barnier, who aligned more closely with Macron. Predictably he was **** and unpopular and now you're turning everyone wanting him out into 'oh well, the leftwing are actually right wing on many issues, I am very clever'.

This post has been edited by turrhall: 05 December 2024 - 08:15 AM

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 December 2024 - 06:55 AM, said:

So to be clear: Trump's election a huge democratic endorsement.

But Macron, Merkel, Sturgeon or Labour win elections and it's sneer and jeer and smear. Or those who deemed Brexit the 'will of the people' sign petitions calling for July's result to be overturned.

Errr...

But anyway, can any of those performing these olympian twists and turns explain why the French government's in turmoil? The issues behind the bizarre sight of the far right supporting left wing votes? Without Googling?

Or is this yet another occasion requests for fact based debate will be met by 'I'm not interested in links or quotes or evidence' evasions...

I do not know why the French government is in such turmoil, Chris, but it is. I will not be googling it either. Clearly their economy is not doing very well as, after all, they are trailing the mess of that which the conservatives left the UK in which was better than that of all EEC countries as far as growth was concerned.

Germany are not doing particularly well either but getting back to Barnier - it could not have happened to a nicer man!!!

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 December 2024 - 06:55 AM, said:

So to be clear: Trump's election a huge democratic endorsement.

But Macron, Merkel, Sturgeon or Labour win elections and it's sneer and jeer and smear. Or those who deemed Brexit the 'will of the people' sign petitions calling for July's result to be overturned.

Errr...

But anyway, can any of those performing these olympian twists and turns explain why the French government's in turmoil? The issues behind the bizarre sight of the far right supporting left wing votes? Without Googling?

Or is this yet another occasion requests for fact based debate will be met by 'I'm not interested in links or quotes or evidence' evasions...

There is no majority in the French parliament - largely due Macron calling a vote which he lost.

Economic performance in France isn?t great either with borrowing and spending out stripping anything in the post brexit UK.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Wooden Spoon, on 05 December 2024 - 08:59 AM, said:

There is no majority in the French parliament - largely due Macron calling a vote which he lost.

Economic performance in France isn?t great either with borrowing and spending out stripping anything in the post brexit UK.

I was simply comparing the reaction to a Trump majority to others who've won significant terms.

And you're right - it's all about the French debt exceeding GDP by six percent. Leading to the centre right coalition - an inevitable consequence of their electoral system - attempting to impose huge cuts in public spending opposed by the left. However seeing an opportunity to destabilise, the far right have endorsed the left's no confidence vote (in effect) thereby bringing down the government.

Chaos. But far more complicated than mindless jeers...

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 December 2024 - 09:35 AM, said:

I was simply comparing the reaction to a Trump majority to others who've won significant terms.

And you're right - it's all about the French debt exceeding GDP by six percent. Leading to the centre right coalition - an inevitable consequence of their electoral system - attempting to impose huge cuts in public spending opposed by the left. However seeing an opportunity to destabilise, the far right have endorsed the left's no confidence vote (in effect) thereby bringing down the government.

Chaos. But far more complicated than mindless jeers...

It?s odd, 3 distinct blocks, left, centre right and far right, all opposing each other for ?standing by values? (Le pen and values I know I know) rather than compromise for the good of the stability in France

[azul]

turrhall, on 05 December 2024 - 08:12 AM, said:

The problem here is Macron didn't 'win' the last election - either literally (it wasn't a presidential election) or broadly (the left wing won the most seats). Obviously I, like everyone on here, is not a French political expert so must take it as read that the President is allowed to form the government however he chooses, but it's interesting that the unified left, who partially won on the back of being an anti Le Pen vote AND anti Macron, was excluded from govt in favour of Barnier, who aligned more closely with Macron. Predictably he was **** and unpopular and now you're turning everyone wanting him out into 'oh well, the leftwing are actually right wing on many issues, I am very clever'.

Wasn't Macron accused of playing games by calling the election after big gains by the far right in the EU elections. One of the major theories was that he hoped the far right would win, govern and become less popular as a result and implode at the presidential elections. If that was his plan then it failed because the far right didn't do as well as expected.

[turrhall]

azul, on 05 December 2024 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wasn't Macron accused of playing games by calling the election after big gains by the far right in the EU elections. One of the major theories was that he hoped the far right would win, govern and become less popular as a result and implode at the presidential elections. If that was his plan then it failed because the far right didn't do as well as expected.

Yes, that has been suggested and is, plausibily, one of the things that the left coalition solidified around.

Unpopular centrist president in major European nation allowing the far right a taste of power to prove that they aren't up to it, but remaining as head of state so that anything the right do can be reined in - where have we heard that before?

This post has been edited by turrhall: 05 December 2024 - 12:35 PM

[azul]

turrhall, on 05 December 2024 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yes, that has been suggested and is, plausibily, one of the things that the left coalition solidified around.

Unpopular centrist president in major European nation allowing the far right a taste of power to prove that they aren't up to it, but remaining as head of state so that anything the right do can be reined in - where have we heard that before?

I suspect I know what you are referring to but not really seeing a true parallel.

[turrhall]

azul, on 05 December 2024 - 01:03 PM, said:

I suspect I know what you are referring to but not really seeing a true parallel.

Ha, I'm being a bit dramatic for effect ofc. Just find considering letting the far right have power to prove they're bad a bit foolish.

[Goku]

Le Pen done for embezzling EU funds, banned from running for public office. These right wing populist Russia-loving scumbags, what are they like eh!

[Search & Destroy]

Je suis Marine

[dart in the crossbar]

Search & Destroy, on 01 April 2025 - 06:10 AM, said:

Je suis Marine

you don't say