[Mr Mercury]

 DIFH, on 13 March 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Guess that puts safe standing on the back burner then.

Has it ever been on the front burner?

[born in 1866]

DIFH, on 13 March 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Guess that puts safe standing on the back burner then.

Safe standing has never been on the front burner or any burner. The design of the stands cannot facilitate the barriers. For safe standing you'd have to knock the stand down and start again.

[spireitetoo]

born in 1866, on 14 March 2025 - 10:00 AM, said:

Safe standing has never been on the front burner or any burner. The design of the stands cannot facilitate the barriers. For safe standing you'd have to knock the stand down and start again.

Why? Honestly I don't get that, all chelsea had done was extend vertical poles from the seat below, and attach a hand rail, why couldn't we do similar... infact the seating area with the seat up has more room than there was at chelsea too... so I really cannot see why it can't be done..

This post has been edited by spireitetoo: 14 March 2025 - 01:52 PM

[JonB]

spireitetoo, on 14 March 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why? Honestly I don't get that, all chelsea had done was extend vertical poles from the seat below, and attach a hand rail, why couldn't we do similar... infact the seating area with the seat up has more room than there was at chelsea too... so I really cannot see why it can't be done..

The talk has always been that the concrete base of the stand the seats are attached to cannot take the forces of people pushing against the hugher barriers used in safe standing when standing as they need a better base.

[Westbars Spireite]

born in 1866, on 14 March 2025 - 10:00 AM, said:

Safe standing has never been on the front burner or any burner. The design of the stands cannot facilitate the barriers. For safe standing you'd have to knock the stand down and start again.

I doubt that's the case. Shrewsbury have managed it.

[born in 1866]

spireitetoo, on 14 March 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why? Honestly I don't get that, all chelsea had done was extend vertical poles from the seat below, and attach a hand rail, why couldn't we do similar... infact the seating area with the seat up has more room than there was at chelsea too... so I really cannot see why it can't be done..

The prefabricated concrete is not thick enough.
Try it at home. Bolt a chair to a paving slab and sit on it. Then bolt a 4'high rail to the same paving slab and push on it with a couple of mates and see what happens.

[born in 1866]

Westbars Spireite, on 14 March 2025 - 02:51 PM, said:

I doubt that's the case. Shrewsbury have managed it.

How thick is the concrete base at Shrewsbury? How is it reinforced? No I don't know either but I do know it is not thick enough at Town and to put standing barriers up to take a force of approx 1,500 newtons ( one person generates approx 500 newtons and the regs say it has to be able to withstand a surge) Our concrete is just not deep enough to take the size of the bolts required
Source: Mike Warner

This post has been edited by born in 1866: 14 March 2025 - 05:59 PM

[spireitetoo]

born in 1866, on 14 March 2025 - 05:49 PM, said:

The prefabricated concrete is not thick enough.
Try it at home. Bolt a chair to a paving slab and sit on it. Then bolt a 4'high rail to the same paving slab and push on it with a couple of mates and see what happens.

But the vertical poles will be bolted at the bottom and the on upstand behind the chair, the concrete in the stands is plenty thick enough anyway, .. its gotta be to support the weight of fans

This post has been edited by spireitetoo: 14 March 2025 - 06:29 PM

[born in 1866]

spireitetoo, on 14 March 2025 - 06:29 PM, said:

But the vertical poles will be bolted at the bottom and the on upstand behind the chair, the concrete in the stands is plenty thick enough anyway, .. its gotta be to support the weight of fans

The downward weight is supported by the base, steel joists and concrete pillars.. The horizontal force does not have the steel joists or pillars so bolts are the sole supporter of a barrier. If the concrete base is not thick enough to take the required length and gauge of bolts to withstand 1500 newtons of force then you would have to overlay the current base and that is if the pillars and steel joists can withstand the extra weight. All in all an expensive project with no monetary benefit to the club.
Edit: Also remember, every hole drilled weakens the structure and drilling 8 deep holes for each barrier (1 barrier per seat, so approx 9,000 holes will weaken the integrity of the base greatly.

This post has been edited by born in 1866: 14 March 2025 - 06:58 PM

[It's bolted]

So what I've learnt this week is no safe standing singing section singing our new anthem we haven't got 😭

[Bluekent]

500 sold so far in 26 hours , good going.

[azul]

 born in 1866, on 14 March 2025 - 05:58 PM, said:

How thick is the concrete base at Shrewsbury? How is it reinforced? No I don't know either but I do know it is not thick enough at Town and to put standing barriers up to take a force of approx 1,500 newtons ( one person generates approx 500 newtons and the regs say it has to be able to withstand a surge) Our concrete is just not deep enough to take the size of the bolts required
Source: Mike Warner

I vaguely remember this argument years back about a standing terrace so I'm sure there is an issue about fans standing. Of course with safe standing in theory people are restricted to standing in front of their seat generating an even weight and not clustering together increasing the weight on sections of the terrace. I also doubt it is possible to have much of a surge anyway with the barriers in front of you. If there is an issue with standing it would be people bouncing up and down but they do that now and the back of the South Stand anyway.

Personally my impression is that the club has more important infrastructure projects to spend money on.

[azul]

 ash_cfc, on 13 March 2025 - 05:21 PM, said:

Think our plan is to buy in N3 but move over to N4. It’s not like it’ll be too busy for 80% of the games. N5 would be perfect to create some form of atmosphere area.

I notice they block off the top of N4 from sale as if they are reserved for something but nobody ever seems to sit there.

[Sammy Spireite]

 azul, on 18 March 2025 - 12:32 PM, said:

I vaguely remember this argument years back about a standing terrace so I'm sure there is an issue about fans standing. Of course with safe standing in theory people are restricted to standing in front of their seat generating an even weight and not clustering together increasing the weight on sections of the terrace. I also doubt it is possible to have much of a surge anyway with the barriers in front of you. If there is an issue with standing it would be people bouncing up and down but they do that now and the back of the South Stand anyway.

Personally my impression is that the club has more important infrastructure projects to spend money on.

I too remember the discussions on here and I;m sure it was Dalekpete who gave the info on the terracing steps not being suitable.

But, i wonder if that was based on it being turned back to the old style terracing where the 'crush barriers' were every 5/6 rows and needed to take a lot more weight than the new style ones now that are one 'per person'

Presumably with the right chemical anchors each barrier should be able to take the weight of one person?

That said, with no increase in capacity or income (maybe offering standing might reduce the cost of a ticket??) I don't see why the club would shell out the money to rip out the seats and install it?

Now, if were filling in the corners, why not have a couple of 'singing corners'??

This post has been edited by Sammy Spireite: 18 March 2025 - 01:52 PM

[Mr Mercury]

 Sammy Spireite, on 18 March 2025 - 01:51 PM, said:

I too remember the discussions on here and I;m sure it was Dalekpete who gave the info on the terracing steps not being suitable.

But, i wonder if that was based on it being turned back to the old style terracing where the 'crush barriers' were every 5/6 rows and needed to take a lot more weight than the new style ones now that are one 'per person'

Presumably with the right chemical anchors each barrier should be able to take the weight of one person?

That said, with no increase in capacity or income (maybe offering standing might reduce the cost of a ticket??) I don't see why the club would shell out the money to rip out the seats and install it?

Now, if were filling in the corners, why not have a couple of 'singing corners'??

Hasn’t it been said that any future ground extension would be a two tier Keir, oops sorry, it’s a joke folks, North Stand with the corners kept open?

[born in 1866]

 Sammy Spireite, on 18 March 2025 - 01:51 PM, said:

Presumably with the right chemical anchors each barrier should be able to take the weight of one person?

Chemical anchors are just fixings embeeded into an oversized hole with epoxy resin. They would most likely take the weight of one person but safe standing regulation stipulate that the barrier must withhold a surge.
To withhold that surge the anchors would need to be more substantial, making the holes wider and deeper would significantly reduce the bases abilitity to take the downward weight or force generated when fans were jumping up and down.

[spireitetoo]

When does earlybird run till?

[s42blue]

 Mr Mercury, on 18 March 2025 - 02:12 PM, said:

Hasn’t it been said that any future ground extension would be a two tier Keir, oops sorry, it’s a joke folks, North Stand with the corners kept open?

East stand first so I understand

[Mr Mercury]

 s42blue, on 18 March 2025 - 02:28 PM, said:

East stand first so I understand

Pretty sure it’s the North Stand but happy to be proven wrong. Anyhow if it does come to that I’d prefer that than corners filled in, the smaller grounds seem so souless when they aren’t individual stands.

[s42blue]

 Mr Mercury, on 18 March 2025 - 02:30 PM, said:

Pretty sure it’s the North Stand but happy to be proven wrong. Anyhow if it does come to that I’d prefer that than corners filled in, the smaller grounds seem so souless when they aren’t individual stands.

Can’t prove it wrong til a brick is laid. But you’re wrong 😂😂😂