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And Still It Goes On! Rate Topic: -----

#3621 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 06:41 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 03 January 2025 - 06:00 PM, said:

For clarity, Naz Shah didn't write these words.

However she did re-tweet and 'like' them when appearing on a 'parody' account claiming to belong to Owen Jones.

All of which she then deleted.

I suggest folk once again get their facts straight before posting.

Because another fact is she later sued Leave.EU, the group in part formed by current Reform chairman Tice, after they accused her of being a "grooming gang apologist".

Shah won the case, resuting in damages being paid, an apology, and Leave.EU stating her a "vociferous campaigner for victims of grooming gangs"...



Retweeting and liking it?


Same as writing it IMO. Shows where the sympathies lie
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#3622 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 07:01 PM

View PostWooden Spoon, on 03 January 2025 - 06:41 PM, said:

Retweeting and liking it?


Same as writing it IMO. Shows where the sympathies lie



Not disagreeing.

Same as when Labour members endorsed anti Semitism and Tory/Reform characters endorse extremists.

Important to occasionally punctuate these pages with facts, though...
Never underestimate the stupidity of people
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#3623 User is offline   Misnomer 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 09:45 PM

Let's not forget Mr Brown's circular to all police forces, instructing them not to prosecute the members of grooming gangs, that the girls had made 'lifestyle choices'....2008. Labour scum.

KS was DPP.

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 03 January 2025 - 10:09 PM

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#3624 User is offline   Misnomer 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 09:55 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 03 January 2025 - 06:00 PM, said:

For clarity, Naz Shah didn't write these words.

However she did re-tweet and 'like' them when appearing on a 'parody' account claiming to belong to Owen Jones.

All of which she then deleted.

I suggest folk once again get their facts straight before posting.

Because another fact is she later sued Leave.EU, the group in part formed by current Reform chairman Tice, after they accused her of being a "grooming gang apologist".

Shah won the case, resuting in damages being paid, an apology, and Leave.EU stating her a "vociferous campaigner for victims of grooming gangs"...


This Naz Shah?

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-36148704

https://www.scmp.com...-shah-suspended

https://www.meforum....ts-visit-to-u-s

Speaking of facts. They didn't directly accuse her of being a grooming gang apologist, it was part of a satirical pov of the Labour party.

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 03 January 2025 - 10:08 PM

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#3625 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 10:13 PM

View PostMisnomer, on 03 January 2025 - 09:55 PM, said:

This Naz Shah?

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-36148704

https://www.scmp.com...-shah-suspended

https://www.meforum....ts-visit-to-u-s

Speaking of facts. They didn't directly accuse her of being a grooming gang apologist, it was part of a satirical pov of the Labour party.

Another candidate for Labour scum?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 03 January 2025 - 10:16 PM

East stand second class citizen.
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#3626 User is offline   Misnomer 

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Posted 03 January 2025 - 10:18 PM

View PostMr Mercury, on 03 January 2025 - 10:13 PM, said:

A candidate for Labour scum?


Well, Mr Corbyn said, "She does not hold these views and accepts she was completely wrong to have made these posts".

Funny, that; a similar excuse was made about the other tweet....

Even funnier; it appears, when you say things before you become an MP, and they latterly become public knowledge, you didn't actually mean it....

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 03 January 2025 - 10:22 PM

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#3627 User is offline   Bonnyman 

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Posted 05 January 2025 - 04:20 PM

The fake grooming scandal.. channel 4 , true story but without a doubt a documentary based purely on deflection,.
ITS NOT THE WINNING,ITS THE TAKING APART
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#3628 User is offline   dart in the crossbar 

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Posted 05 January 2025 - 09:34 PM

As a goodbye from me to the Personal section. A piece copied from the excellent Holocaust Memorial Day Trust

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Martin Niem?ller

Martin Niem?ller was born in Lippstadt, in the west of Germany, on 14 January 1892. He was the son of a priest, and in 1910 he joined the German Navy. During World War One he was assigned to a U-Boat, a German submarine, and eventually became its commander.

Niem?ller followed in his father?s footsteps and started training to be a priest in 1920. The 1920s were a difficult time for many in Germany, and Niem?ller took a part-time job laying railway tracks to earn money while studying. Many people, including Niem?ller, believed that the new German government, the Weimar Republic, was unable to deal with the continuing economic and political problems Germany faced. Support for radical political groups like the Nazis grew. Life worsened for most Germans when the Great Depression, a worldwide economic crisis, started in 1929, with businesses closing and many people losing their jobs.

During the 1920s and early 1930s, the Nazi party under Adolf Hitler became increasingly popular. They blamed the country?s difficulties on Jews, foreigners, and the weakness of the Weimar government, and promised they would improve ordinary people?s lives. Niem?ller was one of the Nazi party?s early supporters. After being ordained in 1929, he remained a strong supporter of Hitler, despite the party?s hatred of, and discrimination against, Jewish people and other groups.

Like many Germans at the time, Niem?ller believed that the Nazis and Hitler would provide strong leadership to make Germany a powerful and respected nation again. He also saw the Nazi party as a way for Germany to return to the Christian morals he thought had been abandoned, even referring to Hitler as an ?instrument sent by god?. Niem?ller?s eventual split with the Nazi party came when they started to control the German Protestant Church. They appointed an official leader of the Church and changed the text of the Bible to remove what the Nazis saw as ?Jewish ideology?.

After meeting with Adolf Hitler in January 1934, Niem?ller started to see the Nazi state as a dictatorship. Even then, although Niem?ller criticised the German government for interference in religious matters, he did not criticise the discriminatory laws forbidding Jewish people from marrying non-Jews, and preventing Jews from having jobs in government. Niem?ller himself held antisemitic views; in the 1920s and 1930s he referred to Jews as a ?despised people? and ?Christ killers?. The only arguments he made were that Jews should be allowed to remain members of the church once they converted to Christianity, and that the German government should not interfere with the way churches were run.

Niem?ller?s opposition to the Nazi regime?s rules for churches saw him arrested several times, as he became increasingly critical of the Nazis and Hitler. In July 1937 he was arrested again, held for eight months without trial, and re-arrested immediately after his release by the Gestapo, Germany?s secret police. He was then sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp. At this point, these camps held political prisoners, in addition to those perceived as ?threats to society? such as Jewish people, gay men, Roma and Sinti people, and ?asocials? including alcoholics and beggars. In 1941, Niemoller was transferred to Dachau concentration camp, where he would spend most of the rest of the war. Finally, in 1945 he was transferred to another camp in Austria, where he was liberated by American troops in April 1945.

After World War Two, Niem?ller repeatedly expressed regret at his previous support for the Nazi party, and his failure to oppose it more broadly. In 1945 he admitted he ?never quarrelled with Hitler over political matters, but purely on religious grounds?. However, it is notable that the first public record of Niem?ller apologising for his own antisemitic words and views was not until 1963 in a radio interview.

In October of 1945, just a few months after the war ended, Niem?ller headed a group of German churches who admitted they did not do enough to oppose the Nazi regime. Niem?ller was one of very few Germans who called on their fellow citizens to accept their responsibility for Nazi atrocities too, saying in a sermon in 1946:

?We must openly declare that we are not innocent of the Nazi murders, of the murder of German communists, Poles, Jews, and the people in German-occupied countries? And this guilt lies heavily upon the German people and the German name, even upon Christendom. For in our world and in our name have these things been done.?

The poem for which he has become most well-known, First They Came, was also written in this post-war period. Niem?ller gave many lectures on a world tour in 1947, which included his poem, leading to several slightly different versions. He was one of the few to speak out quickly, and say that the German people should accept responsibility for the murders of six million Jewish people during the Holocaust. This opinion was often not well received in Germany at the time.
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#3629 User is offline   Misnomer 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 12:41 AM

View Postdart in the crossbar, on 05 January 2025 - 09:34 PM, said:

As a goodbye from me to the Personal section. A piece copied from the excellent Holocaust Memorial Day Trust

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Martin Niem?ller

Martin Niem?ller was born in Lippstadt, in the west of Germany, on 14 January 1892. He was the son of a priest, and in 1910 he joined the German Navy. During World War One he was assigned to a U-Boat, a German submarine, and eventually became its commander.

Niem?ller followed in his father?s footsteps and started training to be a priest in 1920. The 1920s were a difficult time for many in Germany, and Niem?ller took a part-time job laying railway tracks to earn money while studying. Many people, including Niem?ller, believed that the new German government, the Weimar Republic, was unable to deal with the continuing economic and political problems Germany faced. Support for radical political groups like the Nazis grew. Life worsened for most Germans when the Great Depression, a worldwide economic crisis, started in 1929, with businesses closing and many people losing their jobs.

During the 1920s and early 1930s, the Nazi party under Adolf Hitler became increasingly popular. They blamed the country?s difficulties on Jews, foreigners, and the weakness of the Weimar government, and promised they would improve ordinary people?s lives. Niem?ller was one of the Nazi party?s early supporters. After being ordained in 1929, he remained a strong supporter of Hitler, despite the party?s hatred of, and discrimination against, Jewish people and other groups.

Like many Germans at the time, Niem?ller believed that the Nazis and Hitler would provide strong leadership to make Germany a powerful and respected nation again. He also saw the Nazi party as a way for Germany to return to the Christian morals he thought had been abandoned, even referring to Hitler as an ?instrument sent by god?. Niem?ller?s eventual split with the Nazi party came when they started to control the German Protestant Church. They appointed an official leader of the Church and changed the text of the Bible to remove what the Nazis saw as ?Jewish ideology?.

After meeting with Adolf Hitler in January 1934, Niem?ller started to see the Nazi state as a dictatorship. Even then, although Niem?ller criticised the German government for interference in religious matters, he did not criticise the discriminatory laws forbidding Jewish people from marrying non-Jews, and preventing Jews from having jobs in government. Niem?ller himself held antisemitic views; in the 1920s and 1930s he referred to Jews as a ?despised people? and ?Christ killers?. The only arguments he made were that Jews should be allowed to remain members of the church once they converted to Christianity, and that the German government should not interfere with the way churches were run.

Niem?ller?s opposition to the Nazi regime?s rules for churches saw him arrested several times, as he became increasingly critical of the Nazis and Hitler. In July 1937 he was arrested again, held for eight months without trial, and re-arrested immediately after his release by the Gestapo, Germany?s secret police. He was then sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp. At this point, these camps held political prisoners, in addition to those perceived as ?threats to society? such as Jewish people, gay men, Roma and Sinti people, and ?asocials? including alcoholics and beggars. In 1941, Niemoller was transferred to Dachau concentration camp, where he would spend most of the rest of the war. Finally, in 1945 he was transferred to another camp in Austria, where he was liberated by American troops in April 1945.

After World War Two, Niem?ller repeatedly expressed regret at his previous support for the Nazi party, and his failure to oppose it more broadly. In 1945 he admitted he ?never quarrelled with Hitler over political matters, but purely on religious grounds?. However, it is notable that the first public record of Niem?ller apologising for his own antisemitic words and views was not until 1963 in a radio interview.

In October of 1945, just a few months after the war ended, Niem?ller headed a group of German churches who admitted they did not do enough to oppose the Nazi regime. Niem?ller was one of very few Germans who called on their fellow citizens to accept their responsibility for Nazi atrocities too, saying in a sermon in 1946:

?We must openly declare that we are not innocent of the Nazi murders, of the murder of German communists, Poles, Jews, and the people in German-occupied countries? And this guilt lies heavily upon the German people and the German name, even upon Christendom. For in our world and in our name have these things been done.?

The poem for which he has become most well-known, First They Came, was also written in this post-war period. Niem?ller gave many lectures on a world tour in 1947, which included his poem, leading to several slightly different versions. He was one of the few to speak out quickly, and say that the German people should accept responsibility for the murders of six million Jewish people during the Holocaust. This opinion was often not well received in Germany at the time.


A communist system can be recognised by the fact it spares the criminals and criminalises the political opponents - Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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#3630 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 09:33 AM

View PostMisnomer, on 06 January 2025 - 12:41 AM, said:

A communist system can be recognised by the fact it spares the criminals and criminalises the political opponents - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Should've thought about that before you threw your full weight behind comrade Corbyn for years then m8 ;)
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#3631 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 11:20 AM

Read this on X this morning, not fact checked

Here?s the arrest rate for different nationalities in the UK once you weight for their population

Brits = 12 arrests per 1,000 people

Somalis 64.6 per 1,000 people
Moroccans 70 per 1,000 people
Algerians 72.7 per 1,000 people
Iraqis 92.9 per 1,000 people
Afghans 106.9 per 1,000 people
Albanians 209.8 per 1,000 people
JRID
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#3632 User is offline   Painted Wagon 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 11:59 AM

View PostSearch & Destroy, on 06 January 2025 - 11:20 AM, said:

Read this on X this morning, not fact checked

Here?s the arrest rate for different nationalities in the UK once you weight for their population

Brits = 12 arrests per 1,000 people

Somalis 64.6 per 1,000 people
Moroccans 70 per 1,000 people
Algerians 72.7 per 1,000 people
Iraqis 92.9 per 1,000 people
Afghans 106.9 per 1,000 people
Albanians 209.8 per 1,000 people

Refugees are welcome here
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#3633 User is offline   Burgerman 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 01:11 PM

View PostPainted Wagon, on 06 January 2025 - 11:59 AM, said:

Refugees are welcome here

Of course they are. But is Albania at war or are their people oppressed?
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#3634 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 01:13 PM

View PostBurgerman, on 06 January 2025 - 01:11 PM, said:

Of course they are. But is Albania at war or are their people oppressed?


He's being sarcastic and repeating a line sometimes used by people on the left at protests and suchlike.
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#3635 User is offline   Burgerman 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 01:16 PM

View PostGoku, on 06 January 2025 - 01:13 PM, said:

He's being sarcastic and repeating a line sometimes used by people on the left at protests and suchlike.

It?s difficult to read sarcasm on here.

Sorry, lad.
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#3636 User is offline   Painted Wagon 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 01:47 PM

View PostGoku, on 06 January 2025 - 01:13 PM, said:

He's being sarcastic and repeating a line sometimes used by people on the left at protests and suchlike.

I am not
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#3637 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 02:01 PM

(he is)
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#3638 User is offline   Painted Wagon 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 02:18 PM

All the Drs and nurses coming over to work in the struggling NHS, I?m spoilt for choice now for barbers in Whit, the cultural enrichment, when I go over to Sheffield the streets are safer now than they have been in a long time. The country is booming. The fact that the odd one gets arrested for minor offences is just unfortunate. It?s probably down to two tier policing where an Afghan gets a rougher deal than a Brit.
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#3639 User is offline   Bonnyman 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 07:09 PM

Talking of barbers, heard that the government care not a fig how many barbers there are they all submit over 50k takings to HMRC so they are happy to legitimise them as tax paying business, don?t need to worry about minor things like cocaine heroine and modern day slavery if your getting your bees wax
ITS NOT THE WINNING,ITS THE TAKING APART
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#3640 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 06 January 2025 - 08:35 PM

View Postdart in the crossbar, on 05 January 2025 - 09:34 PM, said:

As a goodbye from me to the Personal section. A piece copied from the excellent Holocaust Memorial Day Trust

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Martin Niem?ller

Martin Niem?ller was born in Lippstadt, in the west of Germany, on 14 January 1892. He was the son of a priest, and in 1910 he joined the German Navy. During World War One he was assigned to a U-Boat, a German submarine, and eventually became its commander.

Niem?ller followed in his father?s footsteps and started training to be a priest in 1920. The 1920s were a difficult time for many in Germany, and Niem?ller took a part-time job laying railway tracks to earn money while studying. Many people, including Niem?ller, believed that the new German government, the Weimar Republic, was unable to deal with the continuing economic and political problems Germany faced. Support for radical political groups like the Nazis grew. Life worsened for most Germans when the Great Depression, a worldwide economic crisis, started in 1929, with businesses closing and many people losing their jobs.

During the 1920s and early 1930s, the Nazi party under Adolf Hitler became increasingly popular. They blamed the country?s difficulties on Jews, foreigners, and the weakness of the Weimar government, and promised they would improve ordinary people?s lives. Niem?ller was one of the Nazi party?s early supporters. After being ordained in 1929, he remained a strong supporter of Hitler, despite the party?s hatred of, and discrimination against, Jewish people and other groups.

Like many Germans at the time, Niem?ller believed that the Nazis and Hitler would provide strong leadership to make Germany a powerful and respected nation again. He also saw the Nazi party as a way for Germany to return to the Christian morals he thought had been abandoned, even referring to Hitler as an ?instrument sent by god?. Niem?ller?s eventual split with the Nazi party came when they started to control the German Protestant Church. They appointed an official leader of the Church and changed the text of the Bible to remove what the Nazis saw as ?Jewish ideology?.

After meeting with Adolf Hitler in January 1934, Niem?ller started to see the Nazi state as a dictatorship. Even then, although Niem?ller criticised the German government for interference in religious matters, he did not criticise the discriminatory laws forbidding Jewish people from marrying non-Jews, and preventing Jews from having jobs in government. Niem?ller himself held antisemitic views; in the 1920s and 1930s he referred to Jews as a ?despised people? and ?Christ killers?. The only arguments he made were that Jews should be allowed to remain members of the church once they converted to Christianity, and that the German government should not interfere with the way churches were run.

Niem?ller?s opposition to the Nazi regime?s rules for churches saw him arrested several times, as he became increasingly critical of the Nazis and Hitler. In July 1937 he was arrested again, held for eight months without trial, and re-arrested immediately after his release by the Gestapo, Germany?s secret police. He was then sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp. At this point, these camps held political prisoners, in addition to those perceived as ?threats to society? such as Jewish people, gay men, Roma and Sinti people, and ?asocials? including alcoholics and beggars. In 1941, Niemoller was transferred to Dachau concentration camp, where he would spend most of the rest of the war. Finally, in 1945 he was transferred to another camp in Austria, where he was liberated by American troops in April 1945.

After World War Two, Niem?ller repeatedly expressed regret at his previous support for the Nazi party, and his failure to oppose it more broadly. In 1945 he admitted he ?never quarrelled with Hitler over political matters, but purely on religious grounds?. However, it is notable that the first public record of Niem?ller apologising for his own antisemitic words and views was not until 1963 in a radio interview.

In October of 1945, just a few months after the war ended, Niem?ller headed a group of German churches who admitted they did not do enough to oppose the Nazi regime. Niem?ller was one of very few Germans who called on their fellow citizens to accept their responsibility for Nazi atrocities too, saying in a sermon in 1946:

?We must openly declare that we are not innocent of the Nazi murders, of the murder of German communists, Poles, Jews, and the people in German-occupied countries? And this guilt lies heavily upon the German people and the German name, even upon Christendom. For in our world and in our name have these things been done.?

The poem for which he has become most well-known, First They Came, was also written in this post-war period. Niem?ller gave many lectures on a world tour in 1947, which included his poem, leading to several slightly different versions. He was one of the few to speak out quickly, and say that the German people should accept responsibility for the murders of six million Jewish people during the Holocaust. This opinion was often not well received in Germany at the time.

On the theme of quotes I prefer this from Churchill
The appeaser feeds the crocodile in the hope it eats him last. Starmer?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 06 January 2025 - 08:36 PM

East stand second class citizen.
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