[Wooden Spoon]

Burgerman, on 12 December 2024 - 12:58 PM, said:

I have just been looking through this thread for the last hour, catching up on stuff I missed whilst having a few months sabbatical.

The condemnation and jailing of the race rioters who were attacking hotels and the police is completely justified. Anytime law and order is compromised by rioters attacking the general public and particularly the police should be dealt with hard and fast in my opinion.

However, it all stirred up memories from 1984 where police were attacked with petrol bombs in Dinnington, violence and disorder in Maltby where 5 police officers had to flee the station as it came under attack in fear of their lives. In Rotherham (same town as the race riots this year) street barricades were set on fire and again, police were attacked.

Are some riots justified and some not?

There?s an excellent documentary using footage filmed by an NUM camera man of orgrieve, and how the police deliberately kettled miners into the streets of Rotherham so they could then be charged with rioting rather than disorder.


Also interesting that all of them were found not guilty after Michael Mansfield took up the cases because he saw a blatant attempt at a miscarriage of justice.


I assume when you referenced Rotherham it was Orgrieve your referring too

[azul]

Goku, on 12 December 2024 - 10:03 PM, said:

https://www.bbc.co.u...878p3l93rqo.amp

Poor Levi

Trump might pardon him - looks a deserving case

[Mr Mercury]

Goku, on 12 December 2024 - 10:03 PM, said:

https://www.bbc.co.u...878p3l93rqo.amp

Poor Levi

Actually trying to light fires and burn a building with people in it..deserves all he got, no argument from me.
And whilst on about trials etc still no news on the Manchester thugs who attacked and hospitalised police officers and it seems the Southport case pre court hearing has been put back again!

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 13 December 2024 - 08:41 AM

[Burgerman]

Wooden Spoon, on 12 December 2024 - 10:48 PM, said:

There?s an excellent documentary using footage filmed by an NUM camera man of orgrieve, and how the police deliberately kettled miners into the streets of Rotherham so they could then be charged with rioting rather than disorder.


Also interesting that all of them were found not guilty after Michael Mansfield took up the cases because he saw a blatant attempt at a miscarriage of justice.


I assume when you referenced Rotherham it was Orgrieve your referring too

Not Orgreave in particular but yeah there was a lot of adding fuel to the fire by the police back then which they would never get away with now. Having said that, every male member in my extended family were miners, some were Notts miners so to say I saw both sides is an understatement. Nearly every man of working age on our street either worked at Markham, Ireland or Bolsover.

I remember coming home on leave one time and being accused, on our street, of being undercover working for the police on the picket lines as they were convinced the Army were involved. The truth was I had been away on a particularly difficult operation and was just reuniting with my wife and kids who had been home in the UK.

I heard many stories of the police acting terribly which all came out in the numerous enquiries after. I also stood and listened to stories by striking men bragging about terrorising the families of miners who carried on working, setting their cars on fire, smashing every window in their house and stories of looting from shops etc.

There were very bad eggs on all sides. But my point is more about the current reactions to the so called race riots. I believe, personally than many of the rioters were and are racist which by any stretch of the imagination just cannot be acceptable. I also believe that there were people protesting peacefully who are concerned about safety in there communities after incidents involving females going around doing their day to day business. Here where I live I have had no reason to be concerned because we simply don't get any trouble but I'm not that naive to believe because it doesn't happen here it doesn't happen. My mate Keith lives down in Kent and the stories he tells about gangs of male asylum seekers hassling people and trying to steal phones etc with the numer incident's increasing week by week.

So while the police were absolutely guilty of provoking the miners to riot in the streets, these riots are defended to this day and looked back on with pride. Petrol bombs were still thrown, people were injured, hell some even died. I personally see little difference in the level of rioting back then and what we witnessed this year. To a large extent, again in my opinion, there was a lot of provocation with regard to the race riots.

[clarevoyant.]

Burgerman, on 13 December 2024 - 11:36 AM, said:

Not Orgreave in particular but yeah there was a lot of adding fuel to the fire by the police back then which they would never get away with now. Having said that, every male member in my extended family were miners, some were Notts miners so to say I saw both sides is an understatement. Nearly every man of working age on our street either worked at Markham, Ireland or Bolsover.

I remember coming home on leave one time and being accused, on our street, of being undercover working for the police on the picket lines as they were convinced the Army were involved. The truth was I had been away on a particularly difficult operation and was just reuniting with my wife and kids who had been home in the UK.

I heard many stories of the police acting terribly which all came out in the numerous enquiries after. I also stood and listened to stories by striking men bragging about terrorising the families of miners who carried on working, setting their cars on fire, smashing every window in their house and stories of looting from shops etc.

There were very bad eggs on all sides. But my point is more about the current reactions to the so called race riots. I believe, personally than many of the rioters were and are racist which by any stretch of the imagination just cannot be acceptable. I also believe that there were people protesting peacefully who are concerned about safety in there communities after incidents involving females going around doing their day to day business. Here where I live I have had no reason to be concerned because we simply don't get any trouble but I'm not that naive to believe because it doesn't happen here it doesn't happen. My mate Keith lives down in Kent and the stories he tells about gangs of male asylum seekers hassling people and trying to steal phones etc with the numer incident's increasing week by week.

So while the police were absolutely guilty of provoking the miners to riot in the streets, these riots are defended to this day and looked back on with pride. Petrol bombs were still thrown, people were injured, hell some even died. I personally see little difference in the level of rioting back then and what we witnessed this year. To a large extent, again in my opinion, there was a lot of provocation with regard to the race riots.

Back in the mid 90s I had the (none) privilege of refing the 1st league meeting betwean Grimethorpe MW v Clipstone MW. At the toss I told both captains that the utterance of the word "scab" would be deemed as foul and abusive and therefore a red card. At which point the Grimethorpe captain objected as it was biased as Clipstone couldn't call them scabs and therefore only Grimethorpe could be punished. Talk about putting your foot in it. Naturally the game was very tasty (3reds) and the abuse dished out by the Grimethorpe crowd was beyond repeatable. Post match refreshments were aborted

This post has been edited by clarevoyant.: 13 December 2024 - 12:16 PM

[Misnomer]

I had been told about this by several people but, tbh I didn't believe it....

I live near a small farming town, in the south east. Over the last couple of years, I've seen the only hotel (more of a Travel lodge type place) being bought off by the government and used to house young, male, migrants; no women, no children. Over the same period, I've seen a dramatic change and in the demographic, and an increase in the population. When I say dramatic, I mean, from almost 100% white, to 20% not being white. The question then has to be, where on earth are these people being housed.

We've had a LOT of house building going on, all on beautiful countryside land. Small villages/hamlets being vastly expanded. These houses are normally priced between ?300-?600k, or more. The problem was, the developers couldn't sell them all; the cost of living crisis, energy costing the highest in the developed world, mortgage rates increasing, etc; all impacting sales.

All of a sudden, the houses seemed to sell, across all of the developments; very strange. The two rumours, and I treated them as such; the developers were selling off the houses to housing associations, and the people occupying these lovely new builds.....young, male, migrants. I didn't believe it, until I actually saw it for myself.

Yesterday, I was on a long walk, which cuts through a new development; they are actually still building on there. What I witnessed was, several young lads, of Middle Eastern appearance, moving into a brand new, probably five bed, new build. Across the road, two other brand new, four/five bed houses had more young lads, stood inside and outside on the grass, communicating with the new occupants of the house over the road.

For years, we've had a housing crisis; we have indigenous folk desperate for somewhere to live, we have young families living in emergency accommodation and in appalling conditions, we have an ever increasing homelessness and veteran issue; we're constantly told it's an affordability and housing issue....yet, we suddenly have the ability to house foreign, undocumented, young males, in expensive new builds; bills paid, heating on, clothed, mobiles, laptop, medical care, dental care, free travel, free trips to the coast or wherever, cash in their pockets.

[calvin plummers socks]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 11:08 AM, said:

I had been told about this by several people but, tbh I didn't believe it....

I live near a small farming town, in the south east. Over the last couple of years, I've seen the only hotel (more of a Travel lodge type place) being bought off by the government and used to house young, male, migrants; no women, no children. Over the same period, I've seen a dramatic change and in the demographic, and an increase in the population. When I say dramatic, I mean, from almost 100% white, to 20% not being white. The question then has to be, where on earth are these people being housed.

We've had a LOT of house building going on, all on beautiful countryside land. Small villages/hamlets being vastly expanded. These houses are normally priced between ?300-?600k, or more. The problem was, the developers couldn't sell them all; the cost of living crisis, energy costing the highest in the developed world, mortgage rates increasing, etc; all impacting sales.

All of a sudden, the houses seemed to sell, across all of the developments; very strange. The two rumours, and I treated them as such; the developers were selling off the houses to housing associations, and the people occupying these lovely new builds.....young, male, migrants. I didn't believe it, until I actually saw it for myself.

Yesterday, I was on a long walk, which cuts through a new development; they are actually still building on there. What I witnessed was, several young lads, of Middle Eastern appearance, moving into a brand new, probably five bed, new build. Across the road, two other brand new, four/five bed houses had more young lads, stood inside and outside on the grass, communicating with the new occupants of the house over the road.

For years, we've had a housing crisis; we have indigenous folk desperate for somewhere to live, we have young families living in emergency accommodation and in appalling conditions, we have an ever increasing homelessness and veteran issue; we're constantly told it's an affordability and housing issue....yet, we suddenly have the ability to house foreign, undocumented, young males, in expensive new builds; bills paid, heating on, clothed, mobiles, laptop, medical care, dental care, free travel, free trips to the coast or wherever, cash in their pockets.

Lovely post

[jonnythespireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 15 December 2024 - 11:29 AM, said:

Lovely post

You know they?ve lost it when they use the word ?indigenous ?

This post has been edited by jonnythespireite: 15 December 2024 - 12:00 PM

[Misnomer]

jonnythespireite, on 15 December 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

You know they?ve lost it when they use the word ?indigenous ?

Why's that then?

And, lost what?

You obviously have a very warped view, if you'd rather house a bunch of foreign, undocumented, young males, in a brand new five bed house; rather than house a family of taxpaying British citizens, or a battered and abused wife who's looking for a safe haven for her and her children.

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 15 December 2024 - 12:14 PM

[dart in the crossbar]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 11:08 AM, said:

I had been told about this by several people but, tbh I didn't believe it....

I live near a small farming town, in the south east. Over the last couple of years, I've seen the only hotel (more of a Travel lodge type place) being bought off by the government and used to house young, male, migrants; no women, no children. Over the same period, I've seen a dramatic change and in the demographic, and an increase in the population. When I say dramatic, I mean, from almost 100% white, to 20% not being white. The question then has to be, where on earth are these people being housed.

We've had a LOT of house building going on, all on beautiful countryside land. Small villages/hamlets being vastly expanded. These houses are normally priced between ?300-?600k, or more. The problem was, the developers couldn't sell them all; the cost of living crisis, energy costing the highest in the developed world, mortgage rates increasing, etc; all impacting sales.

All of a sudden, the houses seemed to sell, across all of the developments; very strange. The two rumours, and I treated them as such; the developers were selling off the houses to housing associations, and the people occupying these lovely new builds.....young, male, migrants. I didn't believe it, until I actually saw it for myself.

Yesterday, I was on a long walk, which cuts through a new development; they are actually still building on there. What I witnessed was, several young lads, of Middle Eastern appearance, moving into a brand new, probably five bed, new build. Across the road, two other brand new, four/five bed houses had more young lads, stood inside and outside on the grass, communicating with the new occupants of the house over the road.

For years, we've had a housing crisis; we have indigenous folk desperate for somewhere to live, we have young families living in emergency accommodation and in appalling conditions, we have an ever increasing homelessness and veteran issue; we're constantly told it's an affordability and housing issue....yet, we suddenly have the ability to house foreign, undocumented, young males, in expensive new builds; bills paid, heating on, clothed, mobiles, laptop, medical care, dental care, free travel, free trips to the coast or wherever, cash in their pockets.

Not a shred of prejudice eh. 'Several lads of Middle Eastern appearance'... jeez.

[jonnythespireite]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 12:04 PM, said:

Why's that then?

And, lost what?

You obviously have a very warped view, if you'd rather house a bunch of foreign, undocumented, young males, in a brand new five bed house; rather than house a family of taxpaying British citizens, or a battered and abused wife who's looking for a safe haven for her and her children.

I didn?t say that was my view did I? That?s you just making something up to suit your agenda.

[Wooden Spoon]

Burgerman, on 13 December 2024 - 11:36 AM, said:

Not Orgreave in particular but yeah there was a lot of adding fuel to the fire by the police back then which they would never get away with now. Having said that, every male member in my extended family were miners, some were Notts miners so to say I saw both sides is an understatement. Nearly every man of working age on our street either worked at Markham, Ireland or Bolsover.

I remember coming home on leave one time and being accused, on our street, of being undercover working for the police on the picket lines as they were convinced the Army were involved. The truth was I had been away on a particularly difficult operation and was just reuniting with my wife and kids who had been home in the UK.

I heard many stories of the police acting terribly which all came out in the numerous enquiries after. I also stood and listened to stories by striking men bragging about terrorising the families of miners who carried on working, setting their cars on fire, smashing every window in their house and stories of looting from shops etc.

There were very bad eggs on all sides. But my point is more about the current reactions to the so called race riots. I believe, personally than many of the rioters were and are racist which by any stretch of the imagination just cannot be acceptable. I also believe that there were people protesting peacefully who are concerned about safety in there communities after incidents involving females going around doing their day to day business. Here where I live I have had no reason to be concerned because we simply don't get any trouble but I'm not that naive to believe because it doesn't happen here it doesn't happen. My mate Keith lives down in Kent and the stories he tells about gangs of male asylum seekers hassling people and trying to steal phones etc with the numer incident's increasing week by week.

So while the police were absolutely guilty of provoking the miners to riot in the streets, these riots are defended to this day and looked back on with pride. Petrol bombs were still thrown, people were injured, hell some even died. I personally see little difference in the level of rioting back then and what we witnessed this year. To a large extent, again in my opinion, there was a lot of provocation with regard to the race riots.

Indeed, as said above, imagine trying to start a fire in building full of people

[Misnomer]

jonnythespireite, on 15 December 2024 - 12:21 PM, said:

I didn?t say that was my view did I? That?s you just making something up to suit your agenda.

Answer the questions, then.

Do you equally sneer at indigenous Aborigines? How about indigenous native Americans?

[jonnythespireite]

You've missed my point completely me old china. If I'm 'sneering' it's at you.

You've missed my point completely me old china. If I'm 'sneering' it's at you.

[Johnnyspireite7]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 02:08 PM, said:

Answer the questions, then.

Do you equally sneer at indigenous Aborigines? How about indigenous native Americans?

If you're going down that road, do the Aborigines and Native Americans get the right to demand that all the non-indigenous residents of the USA and Australia (the majority of whom were technically illegal immigrants either by invasion, Criminals shipped out of Europe, slaves or escaping famine (eg Irish to America)) to go back to where their ancestors came from then?

[Misnomer]

dart in the crossbar, on 15 December 2024 - 12:19 PM, said:

Not a shred of prejudice eh. 'Several lads of Middle Eastern appearance'... jeez.

Prejudice? What a flake. Seriously, you can't handle descriptions? Is that where we're at....

Do you want me to explain it to you? They were speaking either Arabic or Urdu; I couldn't quite place it , as they share similarities (my wife is Pakistani heritage, so I know bits). They weren't Albanian, they weren't Sub Saharan African, they weren't Chinese or from the far east. How's that?

Johnnyspireite7, on 15 December 2024 - 02:17 PM, said:

If you're going down that road, do the Aborigines and Native Americans get the right to demand that all the non-indigenous residents of the USA and Australia (the majority of whom were technically illegal immigrants either by invasion, Criminals shipped out of Europe, slaves or escaping famine (eg Irish to America)) to go back to where their ancestors came from then?

Who's saying that?

jonnythespireite, on 15 December 2024 - 02:14 PM, said:

You've missed my point completely me old china. If I'm 'sneering' it's at you.

You've missed my point completely me old china. If I'm 'sneering' it's at you.

Explain your original points, rather than dancing around and sidestepping.

[calvin plummers socks]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 02:20 PM, said:

Prejudice? What a flake. Seriously, you can't handle descriptions? Is that where we're at....

Do you want me to explain it to you? They were speaking either Arabic or Urdu; I couldn't quite place it , as they share similarities (my wife is Pakistani heritage, so I know bits). They weren't Albanian, they weren't Sub Saharan African, they weren't Chinese or from the far east. How's that?



Who's saying that?



Explain your original points, rather than dancing around and sidestepping.

Your ?wife??
It was your gf a few weeks ago and you were single early in the year - quite a last few months!

[Misnomer]

So, a potential debate about the use of housing stock, has now descended into someone being offended by adjectives, another being offended by the term indigenous, and the usual Hamster chipping in something completely off on a tangent, because he hates me and wants to get one over on me at any opportunity.


Good chat, lads 👍🏻 enjoy the rest of your Sunday....

[calvin plummers socks]

Misnomer, on 15 December 2024 - 02:35 PM, said:

So, a potential debate about the use of housing stock, has now descended into someone being offended by adjectives, another being offended by the term indigenous, and the usual Hamster chipping in something completely off on a tangent, because he hates me and wants to get one over on me at any opportunity.


Good chat, lads 👍🏻 enjoy the rest of your Sunday....

You too x

[Misnomer]

calvin plummers socks, on 15 December 2024 - 02:27 PM, said:

Your ?wife??
It was your gf a few weeks ago and you were single early in the year - quite a last few months!

Mate, do yourself a favour and stop lying. As amusing as it is to yourself, you know what you've written there is complete tosh