[JonB]

I wonder if Deschamps is getting the same amount of stick in France for their displays? Mbappe has managed one goal from the penalty spot and their other two goals were own goals so far. They have the likes of Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele and quite a few other attacking threats but have done very little.

[Goku]

JonB, on 09 July 2024 - 07:20 AM, said:

I wonder if Deschamps is getting the same amount of stick in France for their displays? Mbappe has managed one goal from the penalty spot and their other two goals were own goals so far. They have the likes of Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele and quite a few other attacking threats but have done very little.

I?m sure they?re getting stick but they?ve created plenty, they just haven?t been able to stick it in the onion bag. Their xG over 5 games is 7.9, ours is 4.3. Being unable to finish your chances is different to barely creating a chance all game. The former suggests patterns of play are working and it?s only a matter of time until it clicks. The latter suggests that luck is playing a significant part in winning games of football.

I?ve been a staunch Southgate defender up until this tournament. Having your first shot on target in the 95th minute and the 80th minute in consecutive games against Slovakia and Switzerland is abysmal.

What I will say is we are quite good defensively, and it?s a good job we are, but what hurts us is his inability to change the game until we go a goal behind (reactive vs proactive). So teams end up on top of us for 10/15 minutes and eventually score, like Switzerland.

This post has been edited by Goku: 09 July 2024 - 07:44 AM

[tedspireite]

[quote name='Goku' timestamp='1720502397' post='1828412']
Doesn?t really matter how I ?support? my nation does it, I?m just sat watching it in front of a pub telly thousands of miles from where they?re playing.

Yes Gareth, well done for selecting and coaching Jude Bellingham, Harry Kane and Bukayo Saka, 3 players who are already world class. Although, Gareth?s coaching/style of play has lead to 2 of these 3 players looking fairly awful throughout the tournament. The manager should be criticised when he sets a team up with awful patterns of play, that makes our world class front 4 look mundane and turgid, for being reactive rather than proactive etc. he does not deserve credit when Saka wanders in off the right in his favoured position and pings one in off the post from 25 yards because we have to resort to individual brilliance rather than relying on creating opportunities from tactical know-how and well-coached patterns of play. We?ve played well for about 50 minutes this tournament - we may go on to win the thing having only played well for 60, and nobody would be happier than me, but this is not a well-coached team in terms of attacking play, even taking into account that we?re not the only team who has struggled with that side of things during this competition. And that?s before we get into the fact he brought one unfit left back to a tournament and kept playing Foden down the left, completely nullifying any threat we had from one third of the pitch for multiple games. I could go on. Fact remains we create basically nothing until we concede, then Gareth has to abandon his defensive style of play and our incredibly talented players have to go on and score using their individual brilliance.
[/quote

Yes I agree with all of this. we also got lucky in matches luck that sometimes helps win a tournament like Greece 20 years ago. still think Spain will win it but you never know sometimes your names on it just like I had a feeling Manchester United name was on FC cup after they knocked Liverpool out. but for me Southgate needs to take the shackles off and let the players express themselves if that was to happen and am very doubtful it could be Euro 24 that we finally win a dam tournament again. we can dream I suppose.

[calvin plummers socks]

tedspireite, on 09 July 2024 - 08:09 AM, said:

Doesn?t really matter how I ?support? my nation does it, I?m just sat watching it in front of a pub telly thousands of miles from where they?re playing.

Yes Gareth, well done for selecting and coaching Jude Bellingham, Harry Kane and Bukayo Saka, 3 players who are already world class. Although, Gareth?s coaching/style of play has lead to 2 of these 3 players looking fairly awful throughout the tournament. The manager should be criticised when he sets a team up with awful patterns of play, that makes our world class front 4 look mundane and turgid, for being reactive rather than proactive etc. he does not deserve credit when Saka wanders in off the right in his favoured position and pings one in off the post from 25 yards because we have to resort to individual brilliance rather than relying on creating opportunities from tactical know-how and well-coached patterns of play. We?ve played well for about 50 minutes this tournament - we may go on to win the thing having only played well for 60, and nobody would be happier than me, but this is not a well-coached team in terms of attacking play, even taking into account that we?re not the only team who has struggled with that side of things during this competition. And that?s before we get into the fact he brought one unfit left back to a tournament and kept playing Foden down the left, completely nullifying any threat we had from one third of the pitch for multiple games. I could go on. Fact remains we create basically nothing until we concede, then Gareth has to abandon his defensive style of play and our incredibly talented players have to go on and score using their individual brilliance.
[/quote

Yes I agree with all of this. we also got lucky in matches luck that sometimes helps win a tournament like Greece 20 years ago. still think Spain will win it but you never know sometimes your names on it just like I had a feeling Manchester United name was on FC cup after they knocked Liverpool out. but for me Southgate needs to take the shackles off and let the players express themselves if that was to happen and am very doubtful it could be Euro 24 that we finally win a dam tournament again. we can dream I suppose.

How do you define luck though in this context?

[tedspireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 09 July 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

How do you define luck though in this context?

loads of things going a teams way . not playing well for instance and getting to a semi final.late goals for us in matches.makes you wonder if your names on it .

[calvin plummers socks]

tedspireite, on 09 July 2024 - 09:23 AM, said:

loads of things going a teams way . not playing well for instance and getting to a semi final.late goals for us in matches.makes you wonder if your names on it .

That?s not luck

[Bonnyman]

JonB, on 09 July 2024 - 07:20 AM, said:

I wonder if Deschamps is getting the same amount of stick in France for their displays? Mbappe has managed one goal from the penalty spot and their other two goals were own goals so far. They have the likes of Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele and quite a few other attacking threats but have done very little.

Of course he will be the French love nothing better than moaning

[calvin plummers socks]

Bonnyman, on 09 July 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

Of course he will be the French love nothing better than moaning

Bit of casual stereotyping there bruv

[Tylerdurdencfc]

Bald magician, on 08 July 2024 - 08:12 AM, said:

I keep hearing the same stat from the Southgate / England bashers, only 6 wins in 28 games against top ten ranked teams.

Just to further analyse this stat what are other ? top team? stats against similar opposition? Is 6 wins the average for example?

Just trying to put the stat in context ?

Had a quick look at Spain from 2016 to present.

They had played 28 games against the top 10 ranked teams.

Wins 14
Draws 10
Loss 4

In the same time period, England played 28 games:

Wins 6
Draws 11
Loss 10

[Tylerdurdencfc]

sophocles, on 08 July 2024 - 10:30 PM, said:

You mean the players GS has selected and coached? So you think the manager should be vilified for the times in the game when the players are not lighting the pitch up, but is to be given no credit for coaching and organising the very same players in the very same game when they perform brilliantly? What a very odd way to 'support' your nation.

Lets have a quick look.

Harry Kane - playing far worse than his club
Jude Bellingham - playing for worse than his club
Phil Foden - playing far worse than his club
Saka - playing far worse than his club
Rice - playing far worse than his club

The only common denominator is Southgate.

Simple reason - the tactics, team selection, squad selection and formation have been wrong - there has been poor tactical decisions during the game and poor substitutions/lack of willing to change things.

This has lead to poor performances, the team looking disjointed and a lack of chances and boring football that is defensively minded. Two moments of brilliance has saved him from a load of stick.

In summary - a very limited manager out of depth that has been carried by the players he has had at his disposal over the years and had a number of lucky draws in the tournaments he has managed. The positive he has brought the youth that has come through and giving players opportunity.

Next you will be saying he his better than PEp, Sir Alex and Brian Clough

[Wooden Spoon]

JonB, on 09 July 2024 - 07:20 AM, said:

I wonder if Deschamps is getting the same amount of stick in France for their displays? Mbappe has managed one goal from the penalty spot and their other two goals were own goals so far. They have the likes of Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele and quite a few other attacking threats but have done very little.

According to talksport and 5 live yes he is and has reportedly said ?if you don?t like it turn over to another channel?

[calvin plummers socks]

Tylerdurdencfc, on 09 July 2024 - 10:58 AM, said:

Lets have a quick look.

Harry Kane - playing far worse than his club
Jude Bellingham - playing for worse than his club
Phil Foden - playing far worse than his club
Saka - playing far worse than his club
Rice - playing far worse than his club

The only common denominator is Southgate.

Simple reason - the tactics, team selection, squad selection and formation have been wrong - there has been poor tactical decisions during the game and poor substitutions/lack of willing to change things.

This has lead to poor performances, the team looking disjointed and a lack of chances and boring football that is defensively minded. Two moments of brilliance has saved him from a load of stick.

In summary - a very limited manager out of depth that has been carried by the players he has had at his disposal over the years and had a number of lucky draws in the tournaments he has managed. The positive he has brought the youth that has come through and giving players opportunity.

Next you will be saying he his better than PEp, Sir Alex and Brian Clough

I think you are understating the difference between club and national team football.
You have players who have completed a full long long season with structure and continuity and long term planning and the luxury of playing teams with full familiarity in common ground stadiums.

Blaming Southgate is ignorance of the highest order.

To put it in terms you may be able to relate to - get 10 chefs from around the country- put them in a kitchen together and expect them to be able to produce the same standard as they do daily.

To use words like carried, limited, and the too often used ?lucky? is nonsense and childish.

He?ll be gone in a few weeks so you?ll be happy but be careful what you wish for - who would you bring in to replace him?

[Wooden Spoon]

calvin plummers socks, on 09 July 2024 - 11:11 AM, said:

I think you are understating the difference between club and national team football.
You have players who have completed a full long long season with structure and continuity and long term planning and the luxury of playing teams with full familiarity in common ground stadiums.

Blaming Southgate is ignorance of the highest order.

To put it in terms you may be able to relate to - get 10 chefs from around the country- put them in a kitchen together and expect them to be able to produce the same standard as they do daily.

To use words like carried, limited, and the too often used ?lucky? is nonsense and childish.

He?ll be gone in a few weeks so you?ll be happy but be careful what you wish for - who would you bring in to replace him?

He is limited and one dimensional- it was obvious against Croatia when they overlapped with full backs down the right hand side. You see a goal was coming in the 20 mins or so in the second half and he did nothing.


Italy was the same. They were on the ropes at the end of the first half. A change in midfield from them stopped our play and they got on top - agai you could see the goal coming and he changed nothing

Swiss - second half they did the same as Italy got on top and again you could see the goal coming and Southgate did nothing until they scored.


He plays not to lose, and for free kicks and corners for Maguire (previously) to head it. That?s why he has (previously) picked Harry when he?s been out of form and not starting at old Trafford


Having said that, he?s fostered a great team spirit in the camp, and it?s knockout football so caution isn?t really a bad thing at times.


He?s a poor man?s Jose or a rich man?s Johnny no goals

[Westbars Spireite]

JonB, on 09 July 2024 - 07:20 AM, said:

I wonder if Deschamps is getting the same amount of stick in France for their displays? Mbappe has managed one goal from the penalty spot and their other two goals were own goals so far. They have the likes of Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele and quite a few other attacking threats but have done very little.

Yes he is. In an interview he said if you don't like it don't watch.

[Sammy Spireite]

Blue roan lily, on 05 July 2024 - 09:49 PM, said:

Damn the French for nicking our Will Griigg song..

Not sure we can claim it as the Will Grigg song either, pretty sure it had been sung by someone else about another player (one of the Bristol clubs springs to mind but not certain) before the Wigan fan went viral singing it about Grigg.

[Tylerdurdencfc]

calvin plummers socks, on 09 July 2024 - 11:11 AM, said:

I think you are understating the difference between club and national team football.
You have players who have completed a full long long season with structure and continuity and long term planning and the luxury of playing teams with full familiarity in common ground stadiums.

Blaming Southgate is ignorance of the highest order.

To put it in terms you may be able to relate to - get 10 chefs from around the country- put them in a kitchen together and expect them to be able to produce the same standard as they do daily.

To use words like carried, limited, and the too often used ?lucky? is nonsense and childish.

He?ll be gone in a few weeks so you?ll be happy but be careful what you wish for - who would you bring in to replace him?

I presume, if they play well and beat the Netherlands with a solid/great performance, it won't be down to Southgate then?

[Westbars Spireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 09 July 2024 - 11:11 AM, said:

I think you are understating the difference between club and national team football.
You have players who have completed a full long long season with structure and continuity and long term planning and the luxury of playing teams with full familiarity in common ground stadiums.

Blaming Southgate is ignorance of the highest order.

To put it in terms you may be able to relate to - get 10 chefs from around the country- put them in a kitchen together and expect them to be able to produce the same standard as they do daily.

To use words like carried, limited, and the too often used ?lucky? is nonsense and childish.

He?ll be gone in a few weeks so you?ll be happy but be careful what you wish for - who would you bring in to replace him?

What, that we see, would you say Southgate is responsible for? I get you see the 'other' side of football, or at least some of it, but I can only go by what I see on the pitch.

[Osborne again]

Tylerdurdencfc, on 09 July 2024 - 10:58 AM, said:

Lets have a quick look.

Harry Kane - playing far worse than his club
Jude Bellingham - playing for worse than his club
Phil Foden - playing far worse than his club
Saka - playing far worse than his club
Rice - playing far worse than his club

The only common denominator is Southgate.

Simple reason - the tactics, team selection, squad selection and formation have been wrong - there has been poor tactical decisions during the game and poor substitutions/lack of willing to change things.

This has lead to poor performances, the team looking disjointed and a lack of chances and boring football that is defensively minded. Two moments of brilliance has saved him from a load of stick.

In summary - a very limited manager out of depth that has been carried by the players he has had at his disposal over the years and had a number of lucky draws in the tournaments he has managed. The positive he has brought the youth that has come through and giving players opportunity.

Next you will be saying he his better than PEp, Sir Alex and Brian Clough

Sounds about right to me. The idea of playing Trent Alexander Arnold in midfield could well have worked, if the lad hadn't been told to play so close to John Stones, that he could have worn the same shin pads.
I want us to win tomorrow evening, but I do worry that Southgate will play the same game and the Dutch score the winner in injury time.

[tedspireite]

[quote name='calvin plummers socks' timestamp='1720518715' post='1828440']
That?s not luck
[/quote
ote]

Well what would you call it then ? because I would say if you score a goal with seconds remaining in a match I would say you had a bit of luck. Same as if I was walking down the Fu--king street and found a ?20 note I would think it's my lucky day .

This post has been edited by tedspireite: 09 July 2024 - 04:01 PM

[calvin plummers socks]

tedspireite, on 09 July 2024 - 03:59 PM, said:

[quote name='calvin plummers socks' timestamp='1720518715'

Well what would you call it then ? because I would say if you score a goal with seconds remaining in a match I would say you had a bit of luck. Same as if I was walking down the Fu--king street and found a ?20 note I would think it's my lucky day .

You really comparing scoring in the last few seconds with finding a ?20 note?

That?s like comparing a Cornish pasty with an Ikea Billy bookcase