[Bald magician]

It?s a crazy situation where we are in the semis and pretty much nobody is happy. I can?t recall such animosity for any country at this stage of a major competition? Is it a first ? Must be ?

I sit in the happy camp. I?m just going with the flow of it. The scoreboard has failed to lie at the end of each England game. Roll on the final !

[dim view]

Lincs Spireite, on 07 July 2024 - 06:04 AM, said:

He won't change anything .....

.....well, so far the number of crosses delivered from the left by a left foot at pace can be counted on the fingers of one hoof. At least it appears he now has that option.

[Bald magician]

This must be a first ? A team in the semi finals and a nation of that team showing so much animosity? Genuinely can anyone recall a similar situation?

I?m in the happy camp. I?m just going for the flow. The scoreboard has failed to lie at the end of each game. Roll on the final !

[dim view]

Little anecdote for folk......
I bumped in to one of Tom Curtis's best mates yesterday morning at golf. It turns out Tom is currently in Germany working in the England camp running the rule, scouting, England's next opponents as they emerge. He'll be hard at work now typing his report.

This post has been edited by dim view: 07 July 2024 - 09:04 AM

[calvin plummers socks]

I think most of the nation are happy - I don?t think a Chesterfield message board with its old moaners is representative of a nation lol - God help us if it was

[dtp]

Mr Mercury, on 06 July 2024 - 08:49 PM, said:

He didn?t tend to make subs until the 70th minute because we rarely needed to, and Dorking away accepted, we didn?t often turn out the dogs do that Southgate has.

Yet, we scored a good number of late goals to take points starting with Quigley against Dorking at home. We tended to control games in terms of possession then turn the screw when the opposition tired.

This coming season, I am expecting more open games with the opposition trying to outplay us as opposed to stop us playing. I am expecting something similar when England play their next match too.

[danblue]

I'm one of the moaners pulling myself into the happy camp.
Yep, in to the semi final and we gotta be well happy with that.
The football hasn't been the best to watch, last night was an improvement- but where we stand atm, can't really argue.
Football is a results based game, if it's entertaining as well, it's a bonus.

[sophocles]

Bald magician, on 07 July 2024 - 08:46 AM, said:

This must be a first ? A team in the semi finals and a nation of that team showing so much animosity? Genuinely can anyone recall a similar situation?

I?m in the happy camp. I?m just going for the flow. The scoreboard has failed to lie at the end of each game. Roll on the final !

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

[JonB]

Lots of folk saying about how overall the quality of the euros has been poor especially in later games where teams have been worried about losing. France haven?t scored from open play and things like that. I don?t think England are alone in having played poorly.

Lot being said about player fatigue as they get run around in games galore these days by the uefa/fifa calendar and clubs money making friendlies on top of league games.

[rodney]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

Best manager England has ever had!! Really? I think the moaners are trying to balance the chance of winning against the very poor football played.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

Southgate will be gone one way or the other.

Either he fails to get arguably our most talented squad in decades to the final - after once again enjoying the 'luck of the draw' - or he leaves at the top.

But this isn't black and white.

There's absolutely no doubt he's taken us back to being one of the world's top teams, just as there's absolutely no doubt his conservative approach frustrates the hell out of fans.

He's also fallen foul of the issue surrounding pretty much every England manager - having undropables and taking injured players to tournaments.

Yesterday was better but only marginally. I hope his legacy is one of finally giving it everything rather than 'what if'...

[h again]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

I think everybody is happy about where we are, whilst being very unhappy about the football played. There's no contradiction in that, and I suspect even you can't be very pleased with the tactics and ethos of the side, whatever the results.
If Southgate had taken a group of average players we'd be absolutely delighted with where we stand, but he hasn't - he's taken a group of some of the best in Europe and failed to produce exciting, or even decent football.

[calvin plummers socks]

JonB, on 07 July 2024 - 12:06 PM, said:

Lots of folk saying about how overall the quality of the euros has been poor especially in later games where teams have been worried about losing. France haven?t scored from open play and things like that. I don?t think England are alone in having played poorly.

Lot being said about player fatigue as they get run around in games galore these days by the uefa/fifa calendar and clubs money making friendlies on top of league games.

Some eejit on here was saying Bellingham looked leggy and unfit.
Well the stats show he?s been the fastest player etc in the comp

[spireitetoo]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

I've said all along we will win the tournament... not because of Southgate, but despite him, we've got where we are because of the quality in the team/squad, I honestly believe a better manager would have won the majority of our games comfortably over 90 minutes, I for 1 do not want him to continue as manager after the tournament ends.

[sophocles]

spireitetoo, on 07 July 2024 - 01:15 PM, said:

I've said all along we will win the tournament... not because of Southgate, but despite him, we've got where we are because of the quality in the team/squad, I honestly believe a better manager would have won the majority of our games comfortably over 90 minutes, I for 1 do not want him to continue as manager after the tournament ends.

I'll say it again - absolutely bonkers, entitled nonsense. Competitions are for participants striving to WIN, not to look nice. Maybe you'd prefer the England squad to ignore competitions altogether, and spend their time playing friendly exhibition matches to demonstrate how nicely they can play. You moaners and whingers are IMO, absolutely ridiculous, (putting it as politely as possible).

[spireitetoo]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'll say it again - absolutely bonkers, entitled nonsense. Competitions are for participants striving to WIN, not to look nice. Maybe you'd prefer the England squad to ignore competitions altogether, and spend their time playing friendly exhibition matches to demonstrate how nicely they can play. You moaners and whingers are IMO, absolutely ridiculous, (putting it as politely as possible).

Is it too much to ask to win and be entertaining with it, .
A better manager could probably do both, Southgate as yet has won nothing, so for you to call him the best England manager ever is bull, total bull infact, he's been fortunate to get the better side of the draw in every competition he's managed in.. and won nothing. . Yet

[sophocles]

spireitetoo, on 07 July 2024 - 01:59 PM, said:

Is it too much to ask to win and be entertaining with it, .
A better manager could probably do both, Southgate as yet has won nothing, so for you to call him the best England manager ever is bull, total bull infact, he's been fortunate to get the better side of the draw in every competition he's managed in.. and won nothing. . Yet

It would be great if the teams we support could always win and 'entertain' at the same time, but if you're entering a competition, surely the prime aim is to win, looking pretty comes second, though some of our posters appear to believe the reverse is true. Regarding managers, Southgate is by far the best manager England have ever had IMO. The achievement of Alf Ramsey can never be diminished, but a lot of people forget how many advantages he had in 1966. The competition was on home soil, he had the best goalkeeper in the world, Gordon Banks, the best CH Bobby Moore, the best midfielder Bobby Charlton, and a CF in Hurst who proved to be the only striker ever to score a WorldCup final hat-trick. This was backed up by excellent defenders in Jack Charlton, Cohen & Wilson, and top class midfielders Alan Ball, Nobby Styles and Martin Peters. Ramsey also had massive strokes of good fortune such as the Argentine captain being sent off in the quarter final, and a crucial goal given in the final by a linesman who was not in a position to judge conclusively that the ball had crossed the line. As I've said, nothing can reduce the greatness of the 1966 achievement, but it doesn't mean Ramsey can automatically be named as England's best ever manager. Southgate, on the other hand, has had to deal with hugely increased media scrutiny, and vastly highly paid and high profile players. The job he has done in building a harmonious squad mentality and producing excellent results in the biggest competitions against opponents who are relatively far stronger than most were in 1966, makes him, in my view, the best England manager to date.

[spireitetoo]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 02:36 PM, said:

It would be great if the teams we support could always win and 'entertain' at the same time, but if you're entering a competition, surely the prime aim is to win, looking pretty comes second, though some of our posters appear to believe the reverse is true. Regarding managers, Southgate is by far the best manager England have ever had IMO. The achievement of Alf Ramsey can never be diminished, but a lot of people forget how many advantages he had in 1966. The competition was on home soil, he had the best goalkeeper in the world, Gordon Banks, the best CH Bobby Moore, the best midfielder Bobby Charlton, and a CF in Hurst who proved to be the only striker ever to score a WorldCup final hat-trick. This was backed up by excellent defenders in Jack Charlton, Cohen & Wilson, and top class midfielders Alan Ball, Nobby Styles and Martin Peters. Ramsey also had massive strokes of good fortune such as the Argentine captain being sent off in the quarter final, and a crucial goal given in the final by a linesman who was not in a position to judge conclusively that the ball had crossed the line. As I've said, nothing can reduce the greatness of the 1966 achievement, but it doesn't mean Ramsey can automatically be named as England's best ever manager. Southgate, on the other hand, has had to deal with hugely increased media scrutiny, and vastly highly paid and high profile players. The job he has done in building a harmonious squad mentality and producing excellent results in the biggest competitions against opponents who are relatively far stronger than most were in 1966, makes him, in my view, the best England manager to date.

Southgate lost a tournament on home soil, has arguably the best england squad ever, Inc one of the best strikers in world, and arguably the best attacking midfielder in the world, he's a fortunate but limited manager.

If we will win the competition its despite him, not because of him

This post has been edited by spireitetoo: 07 July 2024 - 02:43 PM

[Toddhopper.]

sophocles, on 07 July 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agree, I find the negativity of some England 'supporters' extremely odd, though I think it's now down to the fact that they'd look daft if they backed down now. Southgate has completely justifiedhis approach by getting England to the semi-finals, with his substitutions hugely influencing the game, and his preparations for penalties totally vindicated by a flawless display under enormous pressure by his players. Naturally, some of the serial moaners will continue to wear blinkers, and probably maintain their stance till the bitter end, like the Agbonlahor clown who would get rid of Southgate (the best manager England have ever had), even if England win the Euros! Absolutely bonkers.

Whilst being pleased to see us in the Semi-Finals, personally I find our approach thoroughly depressing & off-putting. Football can indeed be the beautiful game & we happen to have
players capable of playing that way. Unfortunately for me & many others we also have a manager straight out of the Johnny Duncan School of Tactics! Success can indeed be achieved but by God, you'll be
completely miserable through the whole process! I must add I'm not knocking JD, his tools were limited, Southgate's are not.

[azul]

calvin plummers socks, on 07 July 2024 - 09:04 AM, said:

I think most of the nation are happy - I don?t think a Chesterfield message board with its old moaners is representative of a nation lol - God help us if it was

I don't know where you live but from what I have heard the Chesterfield message board is very representative of the nation. Of course that is not necessarily a good thing.

They are in the semi final and doing what they normally have done for decades (bore their way though). Don't understand why our corner of the nation is so surprised and so upset

This post has been edited by azul: 07 July 2024 - 02:54 PM