[Mac's Back]

DerbySpireite59, on 17 August 2023 - 11:28 PM, said:

You're so right there.�� The Trust is doing many fantastic things for the community, including stewardship of Chesterfield FC, which means so much to so many.

I'm not sure why the original poster has received the backlash he has.

Surely if you have the club's best interest at heart, there are alarm bells ringing regarding the competence of those at the top table. The club shop is a joke, we've reportedly had someone with their hands in the till on the food/catering side which went unnoticed for ages whilst the losses they've presided over have been eye-watering despite a large covid insurance payout. To stave off further calamity, we've needed significant loans and the reported involvement from the Kirk brothers to bring in some know-how. Can someone give reasons why those at the helm shouldn't be held accountable? Whatever you think about the size of their salaries they are significant sums and if they don't possess the know-how to run the club in a sound manner, why on God's earth are they in the jobs?

This post has been edited by Mac's Back: 18 August 2023 - 11:30 AM

[KevoBMMD]

Town_Fan, on 17 August 2023 - 10:32 PM, said:

What qualifications do the current incumbents have. All I know is there is a lot of reasons for them to keep the community trust at the table.

If I need a tin of beans I'll ring the chef exec.

If you are so hell bent on miss-management despite due diligence checks etc and false representation why don't you actually dig up facts, request a meeting with the club or even go to Toby Perkins or the Police rather than persistently rant about things you do not know anything about, especially as people who do know repeatedly present information and facts that you either rebuff or ignore.

You are becoming as annoying as Carson was and he was the master of deceit

[LondonBlue]

Mac, on 18 August 2023 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'm not sure why the original poster has received the backlash he has.

Surely if you have the club's best interest at heart, there are alarm bells ringing regarding the competence of those at the top table. The club shop is a joke, we've reportedly had someone with their hands in the till on the food/catering side which went unnoticed for ages whilst the losses they've presided over have been eye-watering despite a large covid insurance payout. To stave off further calamity, we've needed significant loans and the reported involvement from the Kirk brothers to bring in some know-how. Can someone give reasons why those at the helm shouldn't be held accountable? Whatever you think about the size of their salaries they are significant sums and if they don't possess the know-how to run the club in a sound manner, why on God's earth are they in the jobs?

Fair points well made.

[Sammy Spireite]

Mac, on 18 August 2023 - 11:26 AM, said:

Whatever you think about the size of their salaries they are significant sums

Please expand on what you know?

Its already been clarified on here that the numbers TF thought were the Trust salaries aren't.

This post has been edited by Sammy Spireite: 18 August 2023 - 12:23 PM

[Fact Checker]

Mac, on 18 August 2023 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'm not sure why the original poster has received the backlash he has.

Surely if you have the club's best interest at heart, there are alarm bells ringing regarding the competence of those at the top table. The club shop is a joke, we've reportedly had someone with their hands in the till on the food/catering side which went unnoticed for ages whilst the losses they've presided over have been eye-watering despite a large covid insurance payout. To stave off further calamity, we've needed significant loans and the reported involvement from the Kirk brothers to bring in some know-how. Can someone give reasons why those at the helm shouldn't be held accountable? Whatever you think about the size of their salaries they are significant sums and if they don't possess the know-how to run the club in a sound manner, why on God's earth are they in the jobs?

Nobody is saying that those at the helm shouldn’t be held accountable, they absolutely always should be. But to answer your concerns from my perspective:

1. The club shop has come on leaps and bounds from the Carson days. Some great new gear, old popular shirts that have been re-launched by Matchwinner, and record takings (from a source close the club). It’s always tough to forecast demand as a growing business so I have no qualms that we’re short stocked in places.

2. The theft. Yes, I agree this seems like a big mistake from the club. From the outside looking in, the lack of due diligence & process to stop this happening was a mistake. I trust that a stringent process is now in place to ensure this won’t happen again. Once bitten and all that.

3. P&L. The prior year losses were significant, yes, but 95% of teams up and down the country lose money every year. This is not a CFC thing, football is just not sustainable unless you have a sugar daddy. The only way to stop the losses is to gain promotion to L2 (that’ll give us £1m+ p/a in itself), and to become a development club (which those in charge seem to be moving us towards).

4. The Kirk’s. You see this as a negative, I see it as a positive. The Trust always planned to find new investment as no club can be successfully run by a charity these days. So they went out and did just that.

Now here’s some other things they should be held accountable for:

1. Literally saved the club from extinction - only one other party was interested in buying us. If they hadn’t come in we may not even exist.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.

3.Managed to get all of DA’s debt written off. We now have assets worth far more than loans.

4.Manoeuvred the club through a global pandemic. Having the initiative to find funding during a time when income was almost zero.

5.Completely open and honest accounting - see Kieron Maguire for feedback - in his words, the most transparent in English football.

6.Complete openness and honesty about furlough - we may have got stick but I’m proud our club informed their fans, when most other clubs in the country did the same but kept it under wraps.

7.Held ticket prices for Y2, to help our fans with the cost of living crisis - absorbing all inflation increases (c. 10%).

8.Half season ticket launches for first and second half of the season - helps fans who can’t afford the full amount upfront be able to pay it in two parts. Also now launched the payment plan option.

9. Bringing back a very strong relationship with the majority of the fan base after the darkest time in our history - Record home attendances last year.

10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.

11. Making CFC now one of the most inclusive sports teams in the country - sensory rooms, great wheelchair access, kids deals, always thinking about those who need help (I.e. see the thread on Alty tickets).

12. George Carline & Others - Showed great responsibility by continuing to pay George for months after his contract had ended, and giving him full use of our facilities to get fit again. All this, knowing full well he wasn’t part of Cooks plans. Very few clubs would do this.

I’m sure you’ll join me in holding those in charge accountable for all of this.

Ps. Sorry for such a long reply. I got typing and couldn’t stop. But I’m sure there’s much more to add to that also.

[Search & Destroy]

Fact Checker, on 18 August 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

Nobody is saying that those at the helm shouldn’t be held accountable, they absolutely always should be. But to answer your concerns from my perspective:

1. The club shop has come on leaps and bounds from the Carson days. Some great new gear, old popular shirts that have been re-launched by Matchwinner, and record takings (from a source close the club). It’s always tough to forecast demand as a growing business so I have no qualms that we’re short stocked in places.

2. The theft. Yes, I agree this seems like a big mistake from the club. From the outside looking in, the lack of due diligence & process to stop this happening was a mistake. I trust that a stringent process is now in place to ensure this won’t happen again. Once bitten and all that.

3. P&L. The prior year losses were significant, yes, but 95% of teams up and down the country lose money every year. This is not a CFC thing, football is just not sustainable unless you have a sugar daddy. The only way to stop the losses is to gain promotion to L2 (that’ll give us £1m+ p/a in itself), and to become a development club (which those in charge seem to be moving us towards).

4. The Kirk’s. You see this as a negative, I see it as a positive. The Trust always planned to find new investment as no club can be successfully run by a charity these days. So they went out and did just that.

Now here’s some other things they should be held accountable for:

1. Literally saved the club from extinction - only one other party was interested in buying us. If they hadn’t come in we may not even exist.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.

3.Managed to get all of DA’s debt written off. We now have assets worth far more than loans.

4.Manoeuvred the club through a global pandemic. Having the initiative to find funding during a time when income was almost zero.

5.Completely open and honest accounting - see Kieron Maguire for feedback - in his words, the most transparent in English football.

6.Complete openness and honesty about furlough - we may have got stick but I’m proud our club informed their fans, when most other clubs in the country did the same but kept it under wraps.

7.Held ticket prices for Y2, to help our fans with the cost of living crisis - absorbing all inflation increases (c. 10%).

8.Half season ticket launches for first and second half of the season - helps fans who can’t afford the full amount upfront be able to pay it in two parts. Also now launched the payment plan option.

9. Bringing back a very strong relationship with the majority of the fan base after the darkest time in our history - Record home attendances last year.

10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.

11. Making CFC now one of the most inclusive sports teams in the country - sensory rooms, great wheelchair access, kids deals, always thinking about those who need help (I.e. see the thread on Alty tickets).

12. George Carline & Others - Showed great responsibility by continuing to pay George for months after his contract had ended, and giving him full use of our facilities to get fit again. All this, knowing full well he wasn’t part of Cooks plans. Very few clubs would do this.

I’m sure you’ll join me in holding those in charge accountable for all of this.

Ps. Sorry for such a long reply. I got typing and couldn’t stop. But I’m sure there’s much more to add to that also.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.








Seriously, that was the Trust?

[Fact Checker]

Joe Quigley is dynamite, on 18 August 2023 - 01:51 PM, said:

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.




Seriously, that was the Trust?

Absolutely.
If they’re (rightly so) being held accountable for a theft by an employee under their command, then why wouldn’t they be held accountable for the good decisions made to get us firing on the pitch again, under their command? You can’t have it both ways.

This post has been edited by Fact Checker: 18 August 2023 - 01:59 PM

[jonnythespireite]

Fact Checker, on 18 August 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

Nobody is saying that those at the helm shouldn’t be held accountable, they absolutely always should be. But to answer your concerns from my perspective:

1. The club shop has come on leaps and bounds from the Carson days. Some great new gear, old popular shirts that have been re-launched by Matchwinner, and record takings (from a source close the club). It’s always tough to forecast demand as a growing business so I have no qualms that we’re short stocked in places.

2. The theft. Yes, I agree this seems like a big mistake from the club. From the outside looking in, the lack of due diligence & process to stop this happening was a mistake. I trust that a stringent process is now in place to ensure this won’t happen again. Once bitten and all that.

3. P&L. The prior year losses were significant, yes, but 95% of teams up and down the country lose money every year. This is not a CFC thing, football is just not sustainable unless you have a sugar daddy. The only way to stop the losses is to gain promotion to L2 (that’ll give us £1m+ p/a in itself), and to become a development club (which those in charge seem to be moving us towards).

4. The Kirk’s. You see this as a negative, I see it as a positive. The Trust always planned to find new investment as no club can be successfully run by a charity these days. So they went out and did just that.

Now here’s some other things they should be held accountable for:

1. Literally saved the club from extinction - only one other party was interested in buying us. If they hadn’t come in we may not even exist.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.

3.Managed to get all of DA’s debt written off. We now have assets worth far more than loans.

4.Manoeuvred the club through a global pandemic. Having the initiative to find funding during a time when income was almost zero.

5.Completely open and honest accounting - see Kieron Maguire for feedback - in his words, the most transparent in English football.

6.Complete openness and honesty about furlough - we may have got stick but I’m proud our club informed their fans, when most other clubs in the country did the same but kept it under wraps.

7.Held ticket prices for Y2, to help our fans with the cost of living crisis - absorbing all inflation increases (c. 10%).

8.Half season ticket launches for first and second half of the season - helps fans who can’t afford the full amount upfront be able to pay it in two parts. Also now launched the payment plan option.

9. Bringing back a very strong relationship with the majority of the fan base after the darkest time in our history - Record home attendances last year.

10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.

11. Making CFC now one of the most inclusive sports teams in the country - sensory rooms, great wheelchair access, kids deals, always thinking about those who need help (I.e. see the thread on Alty tickets).

12. George Carline & Others - Showed great responsibility by continuing to pay George for months after his contract had ended, and giving him full use of our facilities to get fit again. All this, knowing full well he wasn’t part of Cooks plans. Very few clubs would do this.

I’m sure you’ll join me in holding those in charge accountable for all of this.

Ps. Sorry for such a long reply. I got typing and couldn’t stop. But I’m sure there’s much more to add to that also.

And this ladies and gentlemen is the definition of someone having their ar$.e handed to them on a plate.
Well put sir.

[calvin plummers socks]

That’s all good
(Except)
“ 10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.”

Getting this odious dangerous man in in the first place - red flags all over the gaff and no digging into his history - should never have been let near the Club. Whoever signed that off is a fool (AC)??

[Sammy Spireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 18 August 2023 - 03:42 PM, said:

That’s all good
(Except)
“ 10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.”

Getting this odious dangerous man in in the first place - red flags all over the gaff and no digging into his history - should never have been let near the Club. Whoever signed that off is a fool (AC)??

JR was interviewed and appointed after DA/AC had left the building.

[calvin plummers socks]

Sammy Spireite, on 18 August 2023 - 04:03 PM, said:

JR was interviewed and appointed after DA/AC had left the building.

Well I hope whoever it was has now also left the building.

[DerbySpireite59]

calvin plummers socks, on 18 August 2023 - 04:04 PM, said:

Well I hope whoever it was has now also left the building.

External consultant was engaged to provide professional industry expertise. That consultant was Kevin Davies. Due diligence was then done, which didn't uncover anything suggesting that Rowe would one day be charged with sexuual assault. There was an incident at West Ham, which alone wouldn't ht ave stopped any club appointing him. I suspect you recall all this anyway. It wasn't that long ago after all.

[PontePete]

Sammy Spireite, on 18 August 2023 - 04:03 PM, said:

JR was interviewed and appointed after DA/AC had left the building.

Kev Davies was on the interview panel iirc?

[Town_Fan]

Fact Checker, on 18 August 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

Nobody is saying that those at the helm shouldn’t be held accountable, they absolutely always should be. But to answer your concerns from my perspective:

1. The club shop has come on leaps and bounds from the Carson days. Some great new gear, old popular shirts that have been re-launched by Matchwinner, and record takings (from a source close the club). It’s always tough to forecast demand as a growing business so I have no qualms that we’re short stocked in places.

2. The theft. Yes, I agree this seems like a big mistake from the club. From the outside looking in, the lack of due diligence & process to stop this happening was a mistake. I trust that a stringent process is now in place to ensure this won’t happen again. Once bitten and all that.

3. P&L. The prior year losses were significant, yes, but 95% of teams up and down the country lose money every year. This is not a CFC thing, football is just not sustainable unless you have a sugar daddy. The only way to stop the losses is to gain promotion to L2 (that’ll give us £1m+ p/a in itself), and to become a development club (which those in charge seem to be moving us towards).

4. The Kirk’s. You see this as a negative, I see it as a positive. The Trust always planned to find new investment as no club can be successfully run by a charity these days. So they went out and did just that.

Now here’s some other things they should be held accountable for:

1. Literally saved the club from extinction - only one other party was interested in buying us. If they hadn’t come in we may not even exist.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.

3.Managed to get all of DA’s debt written off. We now have assets worth far more than loans.

4.Manoeuvred the club through a global pandemic. Having the initiative to find funding during a time when income was almost zero.

5.Completely open and honest accounting - see Kieron Maguire for feedback - in his words, the most transparent in English football.

6.Complete openness and honesty about furlough - we may have got stick but I’m proud our club informed their fans, when most other clubs in the country did the same but kept it under wraps.

7.Held ticket prices for Y2, to help our fans with the cost of living crisis - absorbing all inflation increases (c. 10%).

8.Half season ticket launches for first and second half of the season - helps fans who can’t afford the full amount upfront be able to pay it in two parts. Also now launched the payment plan option.

9. Bringing back a very strong relationship with the majority of the fan base after the darkest time in our history - Record home attendances last year.

10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.

11. Making CFC now one of the most inclusive sports teams in the country - sensory rooms, great wheelchair access, kids deals, always thinking about those who need help (I.e. see the thread on Alty tickets).

12. George Carline & Others - Showed great responsibility by continuing to pay George for months after his contract had ended, and giving him full use of our facilities to get fit again. All this, knowing full well he wasn’t part of Cooks plans. Very few clubs would do this.

I’m sure you’ll join me in holding those in charge accountable for all of this.

Ps. Sorry for such a long reply. I got typing and couldn’t stop. But I’m sure there’s much more to add to that also.

Some incredible chicanery there, a lot of that you list as praise has seen the club been made a laughing stock in the football world.

Laughable that the Trust can claim any credit for getting Cook, he is the only reason why we are getting the crowds we are and the getting goodwill we are. He fell into their lap because he has an affinity for the club.

The club is currently losing money hand over fist with losses every year despite incredible gate receipts and season ticket sales..

If you really deep dive we are doing well despite the trust not because of it. Lets face it post Dave Allen, Ian Huntley could have been made chairman and been well received and would have had the same amount of experience running a football club as the current incumbent.

Believe me if they weren't winning because of Cook there would be half the goodwill going around that there is.

[calvin plummers socks]

DerbySpireite59, on 18 August 2023 - 04:36 PM, said:

External consultant was engaged to provide professional industry expertise. That consultant was Kevin Davies. Due diligence was then done, which didn't uncover anything suggesting that Rowe would one day be charged with sexuual assault. There was an incident at West Ham, which alone wouldn't ht ave stopped any club appointing him. I suspect you recall all this anyway. It wasn't that long ago after all.

Previous offences and a years ban from football in the U.K.!

[Mac's Back]

calvin plummers socks, on 18 August 2023 - 04:04 PM, said:

Well I hope whoever it was has now also left the building.

I'm not aware of any departures, is anyone else?

For all the defensive responses on this thread, I think we are still seeing an under-achieving business with many income streams being far from maximised. And I don't see the Kirks as a negative as such, their 'friendly' loans must have been very welcome but the elephant in the room is why we needed the money in the first place. It wasn't, as far as I can tell, investment to take us forward, which the Trust had previously stated the would be looking for, it was money to plug huge holes in our finances.

Talking a good game is easy, so when we see a sustainable business firing on a few more cylinders, I'll be first to praise the brothers' business acumen. Remember we've recently had one of the UK's top 100 wealthy people at the helm, a man who should have had enormous business acumen. But even before he chucked his toys out the pram, he proved he couldn't run a bath. I'm unsure of the timeline since the Kirks entered the building but I was hoping to see visible evidence of their input by now. Maybe I'm just impatient.

[JonB]

PontePete, on 18 August 2023 - 04:36 PM, said:

Kev Davies was on the interview panel iirc?

And Lee turnbull I think?

[Wooden Spoon]

Fact Checker, on 18 August 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

Nobody is saying that those at the helm shouldn’t be held accountable, they absolutely always should be. But to answer your concerns from my perspective:

1. The club shop has come on leaps and bounds from the Carson days. Some great new gear, old popular shirts that have been re-launched by Matchwinner, and record takings (from a source close the club). It’s always tough to forecast demand as a growing business so I have no qualms that we’re short stocked in places.

2. The theft. Yes, I agree this seems like a big mistake from the club. From the outside looking in, the lack of due diligence & process to stop this happening was a mistake. I trust that a stringent process is now in place to ensure this won’t happen again. Once bitten and all that.

3. P&L. The prior year losses were significant, yes, but 95% of teams up and down the country lose money every year. This is not a CFC thing, football is just not sustainable unless you have a sugar daddy. The only way to stop the losses is to gain promotion to L2 (that’ll give us £1m+ p/a in itself), and to become a development club (which those in charge seem to be moving us towards).

4. The Kirk’s. You see this as a negative, I see it as a positive. The Trust always planned to find new investment as no club can be successfully run by a charity these days. So they went out and did just that.

Now here’s some other things they should be held accountable for:

1. Literally saved the club from extinction - only one other party was interested in buying us. If they hadn’t come in we may not even exist.

2.On the pitch: Took us from relegation fodder to playoffs in Y1 & even further to the semi final in Y2 + FA Cup 3rd round experience at Chelsea. P/O final in Y3.

3.Managed to get all of DA’s debt written off. We now have assets worth far more than loans.

4.Manoeuvred the club through a global pandemic. Having the initiative to find funding during a time when income was almost zero.

5.Completely open and honest accounting - see Kieron Maguire for feedback - in his words, the most transparent in English football.

6.Complete openness and honesty about furlough - we may have got stick but I’m proud our club informed their fans, when most other clubs in the country did the same but kept it under wraps.

7.Held ticket prices for Y2, to help our fans with the cost of living crisis - absorbing all inflation increases (c. 10%).

8.Half season ticket launches for first and second half of the season - helps fans who can’t afford the full amount upfront be able to pay it in two parts. Also now launched the payment plan option.

9. Bringing back a very strong relationship with the majority of the fan base after the darkest time in our history - Record home attendances last year.

10. James Rowe - Handled a terrible situation expertly. Strong praise was given by the FA for how they handled it all. Managed to avoid a pay off in a relatively fast manner and bring in a league 1 manager.

11. Making CFC now one of the most inclusive sports teams in the country - sensory rooms, great wheelchair access, kids deals, always thinking about those who need help (I.e. see the thread on Alty tickets).

12. George Carline & Others - Showed great responsibility by continuing to pay George for months after his contract had ended, and giving him full use of our facilities to get fit again. All this, knowing full well he wasn’t part of Cooks plans. Very few clubs would do this.

I’m sure you’ll join me in holding those in charge accountable for all of this.

Ps. Sorry for such a long reply. I got typing and couldn’t stop. But I’m sure there’s much more to add to that also.

1) fair comment. Although being better than Carson isn’t a very high hurdle to get over

2) I have issues with this. When Rowe was signing strikers for fun I got slated for questioning his transfer policies. Look how that turned out. Rabbit in head lights. Totally over weekends by Rowe and his demands (and contract demands) Failed to manage him.

3) as much down to D.A as the trusts negotiation skills for the deal. They had a set amount of money, which wasn’t much. They were the only game in town. D.A wanted out. Was really the only way forward for all parties. At least they stepped forward and got councils on board to loan the money

4) I’ve literally no idea what the extra funding they found was. Can you explain what this is? TV deal or something? Not saying they didn’t get it just don’t know what it was.

5) Agreed.

6) Agreed, although maybe a bit naive on our part. But fair play for the honesty

7) fair play. Although not unusual for clubs to do this

8) Great idea this, Pat on the back

9) After Carson that wouldn’t have been difficult. A shaved Chimp in a suit would have been able to communicate better with the fans than Carson.

10) Hamdled it well, Bt had they properly managed him maybe the situation wouldn’t have developed how it did. Or maybe it would, who knows. But dealt with the fall out well.

11) fair comment

12) not the only club to do this - didn’t we do the same with Aaron Downes a while back?

[calvin plummers socks]

12) not the only club to do this - didn’t we do the same with Aaron Downes a while back?

(All clubs do this)