[DIFH]

moondog, on 23 December 2022 - 03:18 PM, said:

and the accused

A discussion on 5 Live have just said there is a 3 yr back log of trials and among the offences in this list are sexual assault and the like.

[Mr Mercury]

DIFH, on 01 January 2023 - 10:30 PM, said:

A discussion on 5 Live have just said there is a 3 yr back log of trials and among the offences in this list are sexual assault and the like.

His trial date is December this year.

[dim view]

DIFH, on 01 January 2023 - 10:30 PM, said:

A discussion on 5 Live have just said there is a 3 yr back log of trials and among the offences in this list are sexual assault and the like.

Did it mention the antics of Failing Grayling? The biggest single disaster area in terms of policy failures until Truss popped up.

Did it cover what people in Rowe's circumstances do for income during this time? Presumably they are entitled to Job Seekers?

[DIFH]

dim view, on 02 January 2023 - 09:54 AM, said:

Did it mention the antics of Failing Grayling? The biggest single disaster area in terms of policy failures until Truss popped up.

Did it cover what people in Rowe's circumstances do for income during this time? Presumably they are entitled to Job Seekers?

Didn’t get into any of that.

[DIFH]

Mr Mercury, on 01 January 2023 - 10:40 PM, said:

His trial date is December this year.

The trials in the back log all had specified dates apparently but the shortage of lawyers taking up the profession is contributing to a slow down in the process. Covid was the single most impact in building the list but the closure generally of magistrates court are all contributing to the general slow down.

Appeals are none existent so don’t go getting any fines you would want to appeal.

[dim view]

dim view, on 02 January 2023 - 09:54 AM, said:

Did it mention the antics of Failing Grayling? The biggest single disaster area in terms of policy failures until Truss popped up.

Did it cover what people in Rowe's circumstances do for income during this time? Presumably they are entitled to Job Seekers?

bump.....

Looks like it's started.

1/12/23

Derby Crown Court 2 30DI0188422
James Colvin Rowe
Details: For Pre-Trial Review - Case Started - 10:21

[Osborne again]

Putting aside, whether he's guilty or not, no one, male or female should have to put up with harassment at work, sexual or otherwise. Those who practice this behaviour become empowered if not confronted but it must be so hard for the victims.
If he's found guilty I hope he serves a jail sentence, and doesn't just get a slapped wrist.

[Zigsuk]

Osborne again, on 01 December 2023 - 07:39 PM, said:

Putting aside, whether he's guilty or not, no one, male or female should have to put up with harassment at work, sexual or otherwise. Those who practice this behaviour become empowered if not confronted but it must be so hard for the victims.
If he's found guilty I hope he serves a jail sentence, and doesn't just get a slapped wrist.

If he’s found guilty and it’s a big if, because if he didn’t think he had a chance his lawyers would have advised him to plead guilty as it’s an automatic reduction in sentence, I very much doubt he will be jailed. First offence and judges are being advised against short sentences. My guess would be a suspended sentence at the most. And as I suggest there is a good chance he will be acquitted anyway.

[Osborne again]

Zigsuk, on 01 December 2023 - 08:46 PM, said:

If he’s found guilty and it’s a big if, because if he didn’t think he had a chance his lawyers would have advised him to plead guilty as it’s an automatic reduction in sentence, I very much doubt he will be jailed. First offence and judges are being advised against short sentences. My guess would be a suspended sentence at the most. And as I suggest there is a good chance he will be acquitted anyway.

But this isn't a shoplifting offence, this, allegedly is something coming out of the trousers not down em. I don't know if he did what he's charged with, but to give a suspended sentence if guilty only empowers the perpetrators and the victims see no sense of justice. Nothing will surprise me with this mate, so you may be right.

[SocraticCFC]

Osborne again, on 01 December 2023 - 07:39 PM, said:

Putting aside, whether he's guilty or not, no one, male or female should have to put up with harassment at work, sexual or otherwise. Those who practice this behaviour become empowered if not confronted but it must be so hard for the victims.
If he's found guilty I hope he serves a jail sentence, and doesn't just get a slapped wrist.

Harassment at work is a blight , a vile scourge which results from power, ego, jealousy, people a threat to the bully all manner of things. The victims can be damaged for life. It still happens and it's the darker side of human interactions.

[Osborne again]

SocraticCFC, on 01 December 2023 - 09:46 PM, said:

Harassment at work is a blight , a vile scourge which results from power, ego, jealousy, people a threat to the bully all manner of things. The victims can be damaged for life. It still happens and it's the darker side of human interactions.

Very true mate, and it seems to be getting worse, not better.

[Alice Cooper]

Osborne again, on 01 December 2023 - 09:33 PM, said:

But this isn't a shoplifting offence, this, allegedly is something coming out of the trousers not down em. I don't know if he did what he's charged with, but to give a suspended sentence if guilty only empowers the perpetrators and the victims see no sense of justice. Nothing will surprise me with this mate, so you may be right.

I started a new job around 5 years before I retired and my first day in this job I was introduced to the work force. One of the lads I was introduced to was a pleasant enough guy who liked his football and all in all seemed like a nice lad. It was only after working there for a couple of years that I discovered he had been found guilty of sexual harassment but not in the workplace I may add as his victim was only 14 years of age at the time of the offences. He was found guilty on evidence of electronic messaging i.e. texts, phone calls, emails etc. Who knows whatever else he had done that couldn't be proven?
I was told all he received from the court was a suspended sentence and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years. Now to me the justice there doesn't fit the crime. What that poor girl and her family must have gone through doesn't bear thinking about and it is something that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. I had 2 granddaughters of a similar age to the victim at that time and I know how I would have felt towards him if he had done it to either of them. I never viewed him in the same light again after hearing about this and although I'm quite a forgiving person about most things I just couldn't bring myself to be friendly towards him at work again. Fortunately he moved on not too long after this revelation so I didn't have to suffer working near him for long. If the evidence against these perpetrators is overwhelming tougher sentences are required to deter these crimes from occuring. .... Rant over!

This post has been edited by Alice Cooper: 02 December 2023 - 10:59 AM

[Zigsuk]

Obviously we have to bear in mind that he hasn't yet been found guilty and as I suggested earlier may well not be - indeed at a rough estimate I would hazard 50/50. On the one hand the CPS don't usually prosecute unless they think there's a very good chance of a conviction, on the other hand as I suggested he would have been advised to plead guilty if his lawyers thought he had little chance of being acquitted, so it appears finely balanced. The other thing is we are only going on rumours regarding the details of what he actually was alleged to have done, although that will doubtless be revealed soon. As it stands, although what he is alleged to have done sounds very bad, and as people have suggeted should not be happening in the workplace, it doesn't sound as if it's the kind of offence to attract a custodial sentence even if the 'hang em and flog em brigade' think it should.
Finally, even if he is acquitted there will almost certainly be the rumours of 'no smoke without fire.' This trial, whatever the outcome, his behaviour at West Ham, and some of the clips of him in the dugout suggest even if he is proven not guilty he does come across as as pretty unpleasant man. Even if acquitted it will be touch and go whether he ever works in professional football again.

This post has been edited by Zigsuk: 02 December 2023 - 11:07 AM

[Osborne again]

Alice Cooper, on 02 December 2023 - 10:50 AM, said:

I started a new job around 5 years before I retired and my first day in this job I was introduced to the work force. One of the lads I was introduced to was a pleasant enough guy who liked his football and all in all seemed like a nice lad. It was only after working there for a couple of years that I discovered he had been found guilty of sexual harassment but not in the workplace I may add as his victim was only 14 years of age at the time of the offences. He was found guilty on evidence of electronic messaging i.e. texts, phone calls, emails etc. Who knows whatever else he had done that couldn't be proven?
I was told all he received from the court was a suspended sentence and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years. Now to me the justice there doesn't fit the crime. What that poor girl and her family must have gone through doesn't bear thinking about and it is something that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. I had 2 granddaughters of a similar age to the victim at that time and I know how I would have felt towards him if he had done it to either of them. I never viewed him in the same light again after hearing about this and although I'm quite a forgiving person about most things I just couldn't bring myself to be friendly towards him at work again. Fortunately he moved on not too long afterwards this revelation so I didn't have to suffer working near him for long. If the evidence against these perpetrators is overwhelming tougher sentences are required to deter these crimes from occuring. .... Rant over!

AC, you're right of course, but it seems we want to lock up people for silly stuff these days, instead of the more obnoxious crimes. Someone close to me was abused as a teenager, and if the perpetrator wasn't dead, I think I would be giving out my own version of retribution.
According to those in the know, those who commit sexual crimes start off flashing, and the like, before moving onto more serious things, and this, for me, why they shouldn't be empowered by getting a 30 minutes on the naughty step.

[Alice Cooper]

Osborne again, on 02 December 2023 - 11:16 AM, said:

AC, you're right of course, but it seems we want to lock up people for silly stuff these days, instead of the more obnoxious crimes. Someone close to me was abused as a teenager, and if the perpetrator wasn't dead, I think I would be giving out my own version of retribution.
According to those in the know, those who commit sexual crimes start off flashing, and the like, before moving onto more serious things, and this, for me, why they shouldn't be empowered by getting a 30 minutes on the naughty step.

Quite right mate.

[fishini]

3 out our 4 children and many of our foster children were victims of sexual abuse within their birth families. I assure you all it never ever goes away they have it with them for the rest of their lives. No punishment is enough for these monsters.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

James Rowe has plead Not Guilty to sexual assault involving an adult.

In a case where he's seemingly likely to be found Not Guilty. Not sure where or why child abuse comes into it.

[Alice Cooper]

Snowflake McBedwetter, on 02 December 2023 - 04:01 PM, said:

James Rowe has plead Not Guilty to sexual assault involving an adult.

In a case where he's seemingly likely to be found Not Guilty. Not sure where or why child abuse comes into it.

Whether it be a child or an adult, abuse is abuse and is both sickening and wrong on so many levels.

[Osborne again]

Snowflake McBedwetter, on 02 December 2023 - 04:01 PM, said:

James Rowe has plead Not Guilty to sexual assault involving an adult.

In a case where he's seemingly likely to be found Not Guilty. Not sure where or why child abuse comes into it.

It's ok being flippant until it lands on your doorstep, trust me.

[DIFH]

Osborne again, on 01 December 2023 - 09:33 PM, said:

But this isn't a shoplifting offence, this, allegedly is something coming out of the trousers not down em. I don't know if he did what he's charged with, but to give a suspended sentence if guilty only empowers the perpetrators and the victims see no sense of justice. Nothing will surprise me with this mate, so you may be right.

If guilty the sentence will take into consideration - previous convictions, prison population at the time and the sentencing guide lines for such offences.