[Zigsuk]

Linked to the ‘what would you rather be thread’ it got me thinking about what is still the second division.

Mansfield, Crewe, Yeovil, Doncaster, Rotherham, Colchester, Bury, Burton, York, Tranmere, Oldham, Peterborough, Walsall, Hereford - just a few of the clubs who are similar size to us, in some cases bit bigger in some bit smaller, but generally on a par to us. Doubtless there will be others I have missed I wouldn’t include Barnsley as they are significantly bigger than us (although I’m not sure why).
What these all have in common is that since I i first saw town in 66/67 all have spent at least one season in the second tier. We have spent none. Why is this?

[DIFH]

Zigsuk, on 28 August 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Linked to the ‘what would you rather be thread’ it got me thinking about what is still the second division.

Mansfield, Crewe, Yeovil, Doncaster, Rotherham, Colchester, Bury, Burton, York, Tranmere, Oldham, Peterborough, Walsall, Hereford - just a few of the clubs who are similar size to us, in some cases bit bigger in some bit smaller, but generally on a par to us. Doubtless there will be others I have missed I wouldn’t include Barnsley as they are significantly bigger than us (although I’m not sure why).
What these all have in common is that since I i first saw town in 66/67 all have spent at least one season in the second tier. We have spent none. Why is this?

Money

[mr. smith]

Zigsuk, on 28 August 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Linked to the ‘what would you rather be thread’ it got me thinking about what is still the second division.

Mansfield, Crewe, Yeovil, Doncaster, Rotherham, Colchester, Bury, Burton, York, Tranmere, Oldham, Peterborough, Walsall, Hereford - just a few of the clubs who are similar size to us, in some cases bit bigger in some bit smaller, but generally on a par to us. Doubtless there will be others I have missed I wouldn’t include Barnsley as they are significantly bigger than us (although I’m not sure why).
What these all have in common is that since I i first saw town in 66/67 all have spent at least one season in the second tier. We have spent none. Why is this?

Ability

[gordon_brittas]

Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I’m convinced we’d have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don’t sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

[Sussex Spireite]

You can add Carlisle, Southend, Cambridge, Grimsby and Wycombe to the list as well.

[PontePete]

gordon_brittas, on 28 August 2022 - 03:03 PM, said:

Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I’m convinced we’d have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don’t sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

I always thought it was 96/97 when we just lost out on play offs to Bradford, the cup run year?

Sussex Spireite, on 28 August 2022 - 03:46 PM, said:

You can add Carlisle, Southend, Cambridge, Grimsby and Wycombe to the list as well.

And Shrewsbury, Stockport and Scunthorpe

[mr. smith]

gordon_brittas, on 28 August 2022 - 03:03 PM, said:

Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I’m convinced we’d have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don’t sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

22pts behind mk that’s one hell of a gap to make up.

[1978blue]

gordon_brittas, on 28 August 2022 - 03:03 PM, said:

Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I’m convinced we’d have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don’t sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

If it would have been 3 points for a win in 79/80 instead of 2 points we would have been promoted and Sheffield Wednesday would have missed out.

[Johnnyspireite7]

If we're going to extremes we could also say that teams that have been in and around us and about similar sizes support-wise have also been in the Premier league/Old First division as well, Wigan, Bradford, Luton, Bournemouth, Oldham, Carlisle, Blackpool, Burnley, Notts County, Oxford, (Old) Wimbledon, Swindon.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Zigsuk, on 28 August 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Linked to the ‘what would you rather be thread’ it got me thinking about what is still the second division.

Mansfield, Crewe, Yeovil, Doncaster, Rotherham, Colchester, Bury, Burton, York, Tranmere, Oldham, Peterborough, Walsall, Hereford - just a few of the clubs who are similar size to us, in some cases bit bigger in some bit smaller, but generally on a par to us. Doubtless there will be others I have missed I wouldn’t include Barnsley as they are significantly bigger than us (although I’m not sure why).
What these all have in common is that since I i first saw town in 66/67 all have spent at least one season in the second tier. We have spent none. Why is this?

Well before we go any futher let's remember we spent around twenty seasons as a second tier outfit until the fifties. Infact came damn close to the top division at one point.

But anyway, Mansfield? One season wonders. Infact only had three or four years in the third, let alone second since.

Crewe: invested in a highly successful youth set up. Reverted back to their true status when that proved unsustainable, though.

Yeovil: see our little neighbours.

Donny: John Ryan's millions.

Rotherham: Tony Stewart's millions.

Colchester: see Yeovil and little neighbours.

Bury: dodgy funding.

Burton: a very well run club.

Peterborough: MacAnthony's millions allied to some shrewed signings.

Oldham: started from a much higher point but've slowly slipped.

York, Tranny, Walsall and Hereford dunno. But guessing combibations of the above.

As for Barnsley, they went up where we missed out in '80. Rumour was our board bottled it after being points clear at Xmas. Or maybe it was Cox going to Newcastle. Either way they built whilst we went bust.

Were we genuine contenders mid nineties? Would Duncan have been ambitious enough? Not sure, but I reckon Tooley's "As good as it gets" thread pretty much sums up what happened when Allen pulled the plug (and hey Ash, if you read this perhaps courtesy of your snitchy pal, point the Organ Grinder towards the New York stadium adding 'Have a look at what y'cudda won')...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 28 August 2022 - 05:00 PM

[Zigsuk]

Thanks to those who added the clubs I missed. I knew there were plenty more. In fact I just remembered Stockport after posting.
So maybe about 25 of comparable stature to us. I accept there are probably a lot more than 25 who also haven’t enjoyed second tier football either, but that doesn’t make it any easier.

[gordon_brittas]

PontePete, on 28 August 2022 - 04:02 PM, said:

I always thought it was 96/97 when we just lost out on play offs to Bradford, the cup run year?

Definetly the season before the cup run. The failure to sign Mark Stallard that season when he went to Wycombe was probably one of the reasons we missed the playoffs.

[Westbars Spireite]

Zigsuk, on 28 August 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Linked to the ‘what would you rather be thread’ it got me thinking about what is still the second division.

Mansfield, Crewe, Yeovil, Doncaster, Rotherham, Colchester, Bury, Burton, York, Tranmere, Oldham, Peterborough, Walsall, Hereford - just a few of the clubs who are similar size to us, in some cases bit bigger in some bit smaller, but generally on a par to us. Doubtless there will be others I have missed I wouldn’t include Barnsley as they are significantly bigger than us (although I’m not sure why).
What these all have in common is that since I i first saw town in 66/67 all have spent at least one season in the second tier. We have spent none. Why is this?

We've never been good enough, nowt more to it.

[Benno Spire]

Let’s take things one step at a time, we need to get out of the National League first

[dtp]

1978blue, on 28 August 2022 - 04:20 PM, said:

If it would have been 3 points for a win in 79/80 instead of 2 points we would have been promoted and Sheffield Wednesday would have missed out.

That's the season I truly thought we were closest to going up.

And, was it the season after they changed it to 3 points a win?

Of the others the cup run did for us in one and Cook's team were 22 points behind (only 7 more wins and a draw's worth) the team that deservedly put an end to our hopes.

[1978blue]

dtp, on 29 August 2022 - 09:15 AM, said:

That's the season I truly thought we were closest to going up.

And, was it the season after they changed it to 3 points a win?

Of the others the cup run did for us in one and Cook's team were 22 points behind (only 7 more wins and a draw's worth) the team that deservedly put an end to our hopes.

Yes following season 80/81 it was changed to 3 points for a win .

[stainlessstephen]

Put Port Vale on the list too.

Still rankles with me had they not beat us on that Good Friday, they'd have joined us instead of Barnet.

[Wooden Spoon]

gordon_brittas said:

1661699007[/url]' post='1685729']
Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I'm convinced we'd have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don't sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

79-80 we finished 4th. 1 place and 1 point behind Wednesday


Had it been 3 points for a win, instead of 2 as it was at the time we would have gone up. Had there been play offs I’m convinced we’d have won those. We were far better than the sides below us.


We had the best side I’ve seen at town then. We also spent a lot of money.


Grimsby won the league. Blackburn second. Wednesday third.



https://www.football...Div31979-80.htm




Having said that, in my time as a town fan we have won the Anglo Scottish cup. We’ve won the title in the bottom division in 85, 2011 and 13. Two promotions in 95 and 01


A Johnson’s paint trophy win in 2012 and a final in 2014



That’s not bad really - some clubs haven’t had anywhere near that level of success.

[Wooden Spoon]

gordon_brittas said:

1661699007[/url]' post='1685729']
Mixture of money, ability and luck.

1995-96 and 2014-2015 were the closest we came to promotion to what is now the Championship.

In 1995-1996 we lacked the necessary firepower and goals to reach the playoffs. In fact we missed out to Bradford, by a point, who went up. A few more goals in a few tight games, I'm convinced we'd have dislodged Bradford and gone up that year in the playoff final. I also remember lots of unfortunate luck that campaign, a few missed penalties and daft opposition equalisers especially away from home.

2014-2015 down to money, and Allen pulling the plug. We sign Johnson from Villa and don't sell Doyle and we take 2nd place off MK Dons.

79-80 we finished 4th. 1 place and 1 point behind Wednesday


Had it been 3 points for a win, instead of 2 as it was at the time we would have gone up. Had there been play offs I’m convinced we’d have won those. We were far better than the sides below us.


We had the best side I’ve seen at town then. We also spent a lot of money.


Grimsby won the league. Blackburn second. Wednesday third.



https://www.football...Div31979-80.htm




Having said that, in my time as a town fan we have won the Anglo Scottish cup. We’ve won the title in the bottom division in 85, 2011 and 13. Two promotions in 95 and 01


A Johnson’s paint trophy win in 2012 and a final in 2014



That’s not bad really - some clubs haven’t had anywhere near that level of success.