[DIFH]

Many pundits advocating independent viewing of decisions, some even want a panel ffs. If one man can't make a decision we'd have an inquest with a panel. How long would that take.

[Surrey Spireite]

I was watching the Tottenham-Leicester game earlier, when VAR ruled out a Leicester goal... to my mind, that should have stood, and not be wiped out..


VAR has sucked the life out of the game, it really has....


You have to wonder when the clubs/players will rebel, because I think that's what it will take before sense prevails.

[DIFH]

Yet Ellery announces VAR is working and improves the football experience.

[Wooden Spoon]

dim view said:

1608480293[/url]' post='1549918']
I often wonder whether English Var refs are holding their own in comparison to their counterparts in other countries.

Good question

[JonB]

Offsides aren’t so bad as it’s a clear inside/offside rule so even if it is right then it’s fine. I can’t be doing with umpteen viewings of a possible foul for them still to get it wrong.

[dim view]

dim view, on 10 November 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

Correct. Not fit for purpose and sooner or later there is going to be a legal battle over a decision.

Bump

https://www.bbc.co.u...otball/60542012

That kinda makes Liverpool's dream of catching City a bit thankless.

[Scooby Doo]

CFC91, on 09 November 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

We’ve not played so not got a lot to moan about but surely it’s about time this gets put in the bin.

Sheff U goal today was not clear and obvious, took 4 minutes to view the footage. Awful for the watching public. Was one at Everton last week that took 5 minute again. Week after week it’s making headlines for all the wrong reasons.

Bin it - yay or nay?

VAR can be an annoyance, however, if /when used correctly it can be valuable. I agree with quite a few points already mentioned such as each team being allowed two reviews, or referee intervention for major incidents. The authorities need to redefine the VAR rules.
1. Offside Rule must benefit forwards if within a set tolerance etc 2cm.
2. All sendings off if not blatant should be reviewed.
3. Handball Rule needs to be reviewed so it counts if it's deliberate or hands/arms are away from the body unless struck were it's deemed the player simply could not get out of the way in time.
5. Major incidents such as the Thiery Henry hand ball which prevented Ireland going to the World cup needs VAR decision.

At the moment my thoughts are if VAR was being used sensibly and the authorities sort the rules and reduce the delays it could be a welcome tool. As things stand it's spoiling the game.

This post has been edited by Scooby Doo: 27 February 2022 - 12:13 PM

[clarevoyant.]

dim view, on 27 February 2022 - 11:09 AM, said:

Bump

https://www.bbc.co.u...otball/60542012

That kinda makes Liverpool's dream of catching City a bit thankless.

These guys making these decisions are full time professionals and show no consistency. What do they discuss at their many meetings/seminars?
When you look at the standard of these full time refs what hope have we got with part timers?

[DIFH]

clarevoyant., on 27 February 2022 - 12:22 PM, said:

These guys making these decisions are full time professionals and show no consistency. What do they discuss at their many meetings/seminars?
When you look at the standard of these full time refs what hope have we got with part timers?

The ref's are as much prima donas as the players

[Doughnut]

Scooby Doo, on 27 February 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

VAR can be an annoyance, however, if /when used correctly it can be valuable. I agree with quite a few points already mentioned such as each team being allowed two reviews, or referee intervention for major incidents. The authorities need to redefine the VAR rules.
1. Offside Rule must benefit forwards if within a set tolerance etc 2cm.
2. All sendings off if not blatant should be reviewed.
3. Handball Rule needs to be reviewed so it counts if it's deliberate or hands/arms are away from the body unless struck were it's deemed the player simply could not get out of the way in time.
5. Major incidents such as the Thiery Henry hand ball which prevented Ireland going to the World cup needs VAR decision.

At the moment my thoughts are if VAR was being used sensibly and the authorities sort the rules and reduce the delays it could be a welcome tool. As things stand it's spoiling the game.

There is no reason VAR shouldn't work. For years we've craved the technology to ensure the correct decision is being made and often VAR provides this. There have been occasions when the wrong decision has been made but this is not down to the technology; its down to the human's interpretation of the data and rules.

1. 2cm? The problem here is it doesn't matter where you apply the 'line' someone will always complain. Why should someone's toenail render them offside, surely it should be the torso etc? Why not 3cm instead of 2cm etc? Why not clear daylight etc?
2. Review them all. Sometimes what looks blatant isn't.
3. I don't believe you can simply say someone not having their arms down their side = handball. It isn't natural for humans to run around/tackle/jump with arms by their side. I don't profess to have the answer but I don't think you have it here.

[Johnnyspireite7]

Scooby Doo, on 27 February 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

VAR can be an annoyance, however, if /when used correctly it can be valuable. I agree with quite a few points already mentioned such as each team being allowed two reviews, or referee intervention for major incidents. The authorities need to redefine the VAR rules.
1. Offside Rule must benefit forwards if within a set tolerance etc 2cm.
2. All sendings off if not blatant should be reviewed.
3. Handball Rule needs to be reviewed so it counts if it's deliberate or hands/arms are away from the body unless struck were it's deemed the player simply could not get out of the way in time.
5. Major incidents such as the Thiery Henry hand ball which prevented Ireland going to the World cup needs VAR decision.

At the moment my thoughts are if VAR was being used sensibly and the authorities sort the rules and reduce the delays it could be a welcome tool. As things stand it's spoiling the game.

What was number 4:?.

[billyblue67]

DIFH, on 20 December 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:

Many pundits advocating independent viewing of decisions, some even want a panel ffs. If one man can't make a decision we'd have an inquest with a panel. How long would that take.

Check out baseball for the answer on that

Football is the only sport I know with a review system that isn't based on a team/player having a finite number of challenges.

Challenge correctly= decision changed and challenge kept
Challenge incorrectly = decision stands and a challange is lost.

This takes it out of the hands of the referee ( who made the cock up imitially anyway ) but also stops people challenging every little thing.
Also only allow challenges on game changing decisions ( not throw in's etc )There has to be a balance between being on the wrong end of truly awful referee decisions ( we have seen a few ) and stopping the game every 30 seconds

[dim view]

dim view, on 10 November 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

Correct. Not fit for purpose and sooner or later there is going to be a legal battle over a decision.

Bump
How much do VAR officials get paid?
They simply weren't concentrating. It's scandalous.

[clarevoyant.]

dim view, on 02 October 2023 - 05:04 PM, said:

Bump
How much do VAR officials get paid?
They simply weren't concentrating. It's scandalous.

There's implication that the VAR officials may have been tired or suffering from jetlag as they had officiated in the UAE on Thursday. Can't see that being a problem myself when you consider some of our officials appear to 'flown in 'from planet Zogg

[FORZA AZZURRI]

clarevoyant., on 02 October 2023 - 05:17 PM, said:

There's implication that the VAR officials may have been tired or suffering from jetlag as they had officiated in the UAE on Thursday. Can't see that being a problem myself when you consider some of our officials appear to 'flown in 'from planet Zogg

Load of rubbish tired my backside

100% they weren’t even watching the game probably watching the golf or some pOrn channel instead of the game
No way they were watching that’s for sure to not who what the heck was happening

[dim view]

clarevoyant., on 02 October 2023 - 05:17 PM, said:

There's implication that the VAR officials may have been tired or suffering from jetlag as they had officiated in the UAE on Thursday. Can't see that being a problem myself when you consider some of our officials appear to 'flown in 'from planet Zogg

For the good of the game Liverpool need to sue.
The possibility of this being a betting coup is not at the bottom of my list of reasons for their actions.

I'm not sure how Liverpool will react if the sending off is rescinded.

[dim view]

dim view, on 02 October 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

For the good of the game Liverpool need to sue.
The possibility of this being a betting coup is not at the bottom of my list of reasons for their actions.

I'm not sure how Liverpool will react if the sending off is rescinded.

Bumpty bump.

BBC summary of incident........
'But the flag was immediately raised for a possible offside against the Colombian before he ran to a collect a pass from Reds team-mate Mohamed Salah.'

So in this incident the lino immediately raised his flag. With hindsight a wrong call, but the ref can't play on if the flag has been raised can he? That's a recipe for chaos, including preventable injuries.

[JonB]

Generally they dont put the flag up in tight situations to allow VAR to work, its better to let them score and rule it out if the decision is wrong than it is to stop play when they could have scored. You also get this silly situation where they wait ages for someone to touch it before flagging even in clear decision situations.

This one is just a major balls up all round. The assistant gets it wrong to start with and flags straight away to stop play when he probably should have waited then flagged. Then once it goes into the VAR room its a whole new level of mess up as they get what has been given to start with wrong, deem it to be onside correctly but then say the original decision was right as they had not realised the flag had gone up to start with. Once they do realise they just effectively sweep it under the carpet saying the game has restarted so nothing they can do. They could and should have advised the ref that it was wrong and seen what they could do about it.

It seems to come from them trying to sort it too quickly after criticisms of VAR being too slow but they dont do basic fundamentals to know what they are checking to start with. The only bloke in the room who knows they've got it wrong and tells them is the only one thats not a qualified official and is the technician doing the replays.

When you see DRS decisions in cricket when they go to the 3rd umpire the first thing he does is explain to the TV people doing the replays who has reviewed the decision (player or umpire), what the incident wws (caught behind, LBW, run out etc) and what the original decision was (out\not out) so they all know what is happening. Takes a matter of seconds and just works. This doesnt happen with VAR, they just rushed into watching replays and drawing lines on the screen.

[Zeus]

JonB, on 04 October 2023 - 09:35 AM, said:

Generally they dont put the flag up in tight situations to allow VAR to work, its better to let them score and rule it out if the decision is wrong than it is to stop play when they could have scored. You also get this silly situation where they wait ages for someone to touch it before flagging even in clear decision situations.

This one is just a major balls up all round. The assistant gets it wrong to start with and flags straight away to stop play when he probably should have waited then flagged. Then once it goes into the VAR room its a whole new level of mess up as they get what has been given to start with wrong, deem it to be onside correctly but then say the original decision was right as they had not realised the flag had gone up to start with. Once they do realise they just effectively sweep it under the carpet saying the game has restarted so nothing they can do. They could and should have advised the ref that it was wrong and seen what they could do about it.

It seems to come from them trying to sort it too quickly after criticisms of VAR being too slow but they dont do basic fundamentals to know what they are checking to start with. The only bloke in the room who knows they've got it wrong and tells them is the only one thats not a qualified official and is the technician doing the replays.

When you see DRS decisions in cricket when they go to the 3rd umpire the first thing he does is explain to the TV people doing the replays who has reviewed the decision (player or umpire), what the incident wws (caught behind, LBW, run out etc) and what the original decision was (out\not out) so they all know what is happening. Takes a matter of seconds and just works. This doesnt happen with VAR, they just rushed into watching replays and drawing lines on the screen.

No no no.

Many people are suggesting this. The global rules set by IFAB forbid it for very good reason. The problem that VAR has bestowed upon the game is that it prevents us from celebrating goals properly (literally the best thing about football). Rolling back on a dead incident minutes later exacerbates that problem tenfold - when can you be sure your team has actually scored or that your opponents haven't scored? Would there be a check on the check that's announced around the ground? Absurd idea.

The error from this game is so bad the solution is not to change to global rules of the sport, but either to bin off or strip back VAR to automated/semi-automated technology, and/or improve the communication processes between the officials, introducing a sort of script they would have to formulaically work through to establish very clearly for everyone what the review of the incident is.

[JonB]

Zeus, on 04 October 2023 - 10:09 AM, said:

No no no.

Many people are suggesting this. The global rules set by IFAB forbid it for very good reason. The problem that VAR has bestowed upon the game is that it prevents us from celebrating goals properly (literally the best thing about football). Rolling back on a dead incident minutes later exacerbates that problem tenfold - when can you be sure your team has actually scored or that your opponents haven't scored? Would there be a check on the check that's announced around the ground? Absurd idea.

The error from this game is so bad the solution is not to change to global rules of the sport, but either to bin off or strip back VAR to automated/semi-automated technology, and/or improve the communication processes between the officials, introducing a sort of script they would have to formulaically work through to establish very clearly for everyone what the review of the incident is.

I think there should be some room for the ref to speak to the managers in this one off balls up of massive proportions to say there was confusion and we got it wrong and it should have stood and i'm not saying change the rules for this one issue. See if the managers can agree something so the game gets to the point it should have with a Liverpool goal much like we see on occasions where teams are allowed to score to make up for something eg Jack Lester\Droylsden.

What does need to happen is they need to sort the protocol as to how they work through the decisions so its a repeatable process without confusion. What comes through on the audio is that its a very chaotic process with numerous voices flying about and rushing through it. Compare it to DRS in cricket where its calm voices working through a standard process with what is being checked confirmed to start with.