[fishini]

DEATH, on 25 April 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:

Aren’t ministers on this committee/attending?

If so then he doesn't need to be there.

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini said:

1587847480[/url]' post='1515875']
If so then he doesn't need to be there.

Why not?

[fishini]

DEATH, on 25 April 2020 - 09:14 PM, said:

Why not?

Why does he need to be there if there are ministers attending? Two people to do one man's job. What can he advise on that the minister can't?

[Search & Destroy]

Boris back Monday thank goodness

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini said:

1587850970[/url]' post='1515880']
Why does he need to be there if there are ministers attending? Two people to do one man's job. What can he advise on that the minister can't?

If he attends, he doesn’t need to briefed before he “advises”?






Why the objection?

[Search & Destroy]

Because he was Vote Leave?

[calvin plummers socks]

Search and Destroy, on 25 April 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

Boris back Monday thank goodness

He’s had more sick days than most of us have in a whole career.

[fishini]

Search and Destroy, on 25 April 2020 - 10:10 PM, said:

Because he was Vote Leave?

No but because he's a vile person who believes in eugenics proven by the creature he hired. Maybe you believe in eugenics that's why you like him and the Tories.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Pretty black and white the way I see it.

According to our friend 'Dim View' SAGE is populated by qualified individuals.

To my knowledge Cummins has zero medical qualifications.

I can understand accountable ministers sitting in.

But not a single person has ever voted for him.

So let's live in the real world - he's simply there as a snitch or to exert some sort of Machiavellian influence.

Okay though, if contributors are happy with that then fine, no problem.

However the next time something similar happens in politics or perhaps at CFC the same standards must surely apply...

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 26 April 2020 - 08:24 AM, said:

Pretty black and white the way I see it.

According to our friend 'Dim View' SAGE is populated by qualified individuals.

To my knowledge Cummins has zero medical qualifications.

I can understand accountable ministers sitting in.

But not a single person has ever voted for him.

So let's live in the real world - he's simply there as a snitch or to exert some sort of Machiavellian influence.

Okay though, if contributors are happy with that then fine, no problem.

However the next time something similar happens in politics or perhaps at CFC the same standards must surely apply...

morning ode lad

If you were running the country, would you deny anybody within the Westminster village who has a direct interest or a thirst for knowledge, the courtesy of sitting at the back for these briefings and listening in?
Being very interested in Science, I myself would have liked to listen. Why can't the meetings be televised?

[azul]

dim view, on 26 April 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

morning ode lad

If you were running the country, would you deny anybody within the Westminster village who has a direct interest or a thirst for knowledge, the courtesy of sitting at the back for these briefings and listening in?
Being very interested in Science, I myself would have liked to listen. Why can't the meetings be televised?

And you think “let the old people die” Cummings is sitting there just listening? If he was doing that why not just wait until SAGE present their findings to COBR.

Even some Senior Tories want some transparency at the SAGE meetings. Even the scientific attendees are secret and the only way we knew Cummings had attended is because it was leaked on one occasion

This post has been edited by azul: 26 April 2020 - 10:11 AM

[dim view]

azul, on 26 April 2020 - 10:06 AM, said:

Even some Senior Tories want some transparency at the SAGE meetings

Nail on head. The theme here should be to increase transparency, not ban folk.

The reason for the secrecy can only be that some scientist or other has occasionally had or to stand up and say 'we made a mistake and the government has passed it on' or 'your government hasn't taken our advice' or even 'this news is too devastating to tell the public', and the government want to suppress the it. The sooner they can't the better.

[azul]

dim view, on 26 April 2020 - 10:16 AM, said:

Nail on head. The theme here should be to increase transparency, not ban folk.

The reason for the secrecy can only be that some scientist or other has occasionally had or to stand up and say 'we made a mistake and the government has passed it on' or 'your government hasn't taken our advice' or even 'this news is too devastating to tell the public', and the government want to suppress the it. The sooner they can't the better.

True but SAGE are supposed to provide recommendations to government and then they are supposed take decisions based on that information. They should be able to discuss options without prejudice or favour. Given Cummings track record, hirings and statements he is hardly likely to be an impartial observer/advisor. As you said it would be great to have proper minutes to see what the advise was in the early stages (and to see Cummings’ input). There is a lot of suspicion about these SAGE meetings before Cummings was a confirmed attendee, but the calls weren’t for minutes, just a confirmed list of attendees because it was baffling how our ‘follow the science’ differed fundamentally from the vast majorities (follow the science).

[Search & Destroy]

azul, on 26 April 2020 - 10:06 AM, said:

And you think “let the old people die” Cummings is sitting there just listening? If he was doing that why not just wait until SAGE present their findings to COBR.

Even some Senior Tories want some transparency at the SAGE meetings. Even the scientific attendees are secret and the only way we knew Cummings had attended is because it was leaked on one occasion

Wow, this guy said about Covid “let the old people die”?

[mr. smith]

dim view, on 26 April 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

morning ode lad

If you were running the country, would you deny anybody within the Westminster village who has a direct interest or a thirst for knowledge, the courtesy of sitting at the back for these briefings and listening in?
Being very interested in Science, I myself would have liked to listen. Why can't the meetings be televised?

theres no evidence #1o advisors had attended sage meetings in previous crisis.

sage has given independant scientific advice to the govt. its hardly independent when the govt hirer & firer is sat in the room, probably interjecting.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 26 April 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

morning ode lad

If you were running the country, would you deny anybody within the Westminster village who has a direct interest or a thirst for knowledge, the courtesy of sitting at the back for these briefings and listening in?
Being very interested in Science, I myself would have liked to listen. Why can't the meetings be televised?

Let's live in real world here, Dave.

Cummins' presence was as much an innocent 'thirst for knowledge' as his appointing that eugenicist.

I like your idea about televising each and every meeting, though.

See and hear who says what and when? Which 'advice' the government actually takes?

Big thumbs up from me - but in that same real world there's no way it'll ever happen.

[fishini]

Search and Destroy, on 26 April 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

Wow, this guy said about Covid “let the old people die”?

His words were along the lines of ' protect the economy and if it costs a few old people's lives it's a price worth paying '. He's a vile example of a human being.

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 26 April 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

Let's live in real world here, Dave.

Big thumbs up from me - but in that same real world there's no way it'll ever happen.

What's important here is the extent to which politicians manipulate either stark facts or choices. The meeting should definitely be aired, just like some of the other committee meetings.
You seem resigned to accepting that all future Cabinets will play dirty when they can.

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 26 April 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

Let's live in real world here, Dave.

Cummins' presence was as much an innocent 'thirst for knowledge' as his appointing that eugenicist.

I like your idea about televising each and every meeting, though.

See and hear who says what and when? Which 'advice' the government actually takes?

Big thumbs up from me - but in that same real world there's no way it'll ever happen.

Well what a shock

https://www.theguard...ominic-cummings

He was an active member after all. Love how the government won’t say if he attended previous meeting when the ‘test and trace’ strategy was dropped and ‘herd mentality’ option was taken up

Oops meant ‘herd immunity’

This post has been edited by azul: 26 April 2020 - 01:45 PM

[fishini]

azul, on 26 April 2020 - 01:43 PM, said:

Well what a shock

https://www.theguard...ominic-cummings

He was an active member after all. Love how the government won’t say if he attended previous meeting when the ‘test and trace’ strategy was dropped and ‘herd mentality’ option was taken up

Oops meant ‘herd immunity’

There are liers, damn liers then there is the tories