[joe]

Town_Fan, on 16 April 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

I used to work for Great Ormond Street and I accidentally went to the wrong building and ended up in the GOSH charities HR department. It was unlike anything I'd seen seen, the HR department was huge and when I saw all of the other charity staff I was gobsmacked. Loads and loads of them, loads of "managers" all suckling at the teat knowing that money was going to come pouring in and if it didn't well just get Paul Whatsisface on the tele again with some sob story.

I'm really nervous at how charity has become so macro and corporate and all these current nhs charities making those who run them to hit their bonuses.

I agree. I wish I had time to reply. I've worked for Cancer Research in the past and have several friends who have worked for charities (espcially MIND) and even the Youth Hostel Association and I'm amazed what cushy jobs they are. Perhaps a Charity thread in less busy times.

[Wooden Spoon]

joe said:

1587100122[/url]' post='1514739']
I don't live in London but visit regularly and my son is an investigative journalist in London. I have 3 nieces and one nephew in London one being a key worker. One of my nieces friends who works in Intensive care is working 12 hour shifts and she virtually has a breakdown when returning home crying and then having to return. We are in a situation where people working in Intensive care are under "unimaginable stress" (not my words). My wife worked in Intensive care during the Markham pit disater. I know it's a long time ago but is difficult to conceive what a unit full of patients is like.
The Nightingale hospital, if it was ever viable, should be mopping up the Corvid19 cases after ventilation but we are sending hundreds of patients who are positive to care homes that do not have appropriate nursing staff or PPE.
By the way you never answered the question about who these people being trained were and what they are being trained for or why they are even been trained when we are hopefully past the peak and managing so well.
Putting politics aside why do you personally think nurses are working 12 hour shifts in intensive care when your a ward sister friend says nurses can soon be upto speed ? Also ask your friend if it is normal practise for ICU staff to work 12 hour shifts.

Have to agree with most of that.

[joe]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 16 April 2020 - 01:57 PM, said:

I always find it funny when folk paying out for private schemes or donating to health charities get angry when tax rises are suggested.

Here's an idea; instead of supporting the NHS indirectly - and as our friend 'Town Fan' says paying middle men in the process (good to see you're okay by the way, TF) - why not pay a penny or two more in NI? Why not vote for a goverenment prepared to enshrine in law the cash goes straight to patient care? A government that actually rolls back the privatisation SUCCESSIVE predecessors have overseen?

I'll say it again: a fully funded NHS is for life, not just pandemics...

And private health insurance is just money going to fabulously wealthy insurance companies instead of going to health care. It would be a good if all those who boast having health insurance gave it up for the common good.

[isleaiw1]

joe, on 17 April 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

I don't live in London but visit regularly and my son is an investigative journalist in London. I have 3 nieces and one nephew in London one being a key worker. One of my nieces friends who works in Intensive care is working 12 hour shifts and she virtually has a breakdown when returning home crying and then having to return. We are in a situation where people working in Intensive care are under "unimaginable stress" (not my words). My wife worked in Intensive care during the Markham pit disater. I know it's a long time ago but is difficult to conceive what a unit full of patients is like.
The Nightingale hospital, if it was ever viable, should be mopping up the Corvid19 cases after ventilation but we are sending hundreds of patients who are positive to care homes that do not have appropriate nursing staff or PPE.
By the way you never answered the question about who these people being trained were and what they are being trained for or why they are even been trained when we are hopefully past the peak and managing so well.
Putting politics aside why do you personally think nurses are working 12 hour shifts in intensive care when your a ward sister friend says nurses can soon be upto speed ? Also ask your friend if it is normal practise for ICU staff to work 12 hour shifts.

No it's not normal to work 12 hours. And I accept that it is stressful - glad I am not doing it. But in a normal ICU you have one nurse to one patient, with Covid it can be one nurse to 6 patients. And they aren’t being trained to do all of the ICU role, but there are things they can do to free up ICU skills to do ICU tasks.

But you said Nightingale isn’t working because it has no staff. That’s not true.

Don’t know about people moving out to care homes, I do know people who have recovered have been sent home which is obviously a challenge...

[isleaiw1]

joe, on 17 April 2020 - 05:23 AM, said:

And private health insurance is just money going to fabulously wealthy insurance companies instead of going to health care. It would be a good if all those who boast having health insurance gave it up for the common good.

Let’s say 10 million people in the country have PHI on which they pay an extra, say £250 a year as a Benefit in Kind - whether they use it or not. If my maths is correct that’s £2.5bn a year in tax revenues that would be lost.

Not sure it would all be good - or would you like them to pay the tax anyway even though they don’t have it?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

plannerj, on 16 April 2020 - 09:41 PM, said:

We would be wearing them already if there were enough to go round to meet demand from the NHS. That’s why the Government has been saying they won’t benefit people. Yet another diversion from the truth.

Article in the Mail today - that's the DAILY MAIL - where a GP kinda echoes that theory: https://www.dailymai...oronavirus.html

Johnson's mob realised they hadn't enough gear so told folk just not to bother with it.

Seems almost unbelievable to think a government would put self serving spin before people's well being, but it's the same government that's spent six or more weeks telling everyone there's enough PPE only for frontline staff to confirm otherwise. On a daily basis.

The same government who told us there'd be hundreds of thousands of tests when there're still only tens.

And the same government still failing to declare Covid deaths in the community - many of which might never be included as victims weren't tested either (I hope those quite rightly calling out Chinese inaccuracies will apply the same standards to the UK leadership).

Infact even the mindlessly pro-Johnson media are now turning on him: https://www.thesun.c...kdown-too-slow/

https://www.dailymai...David-King.html

https://www.telegrap...ategy-isnt-one/

I think there's growing realisation that whilst vast swathes of the British public have gone way beyond the call of duty, the British government has been at best complacent and at worst covered incompetence with lies...

[Benno Spire]

On a non political note.
Anyone at home doing jigsaws to pass the time have you seen the new jigsaw produced by Kodak that has 51,300 pieces.
I was tempted to get it but at just over £400 and not a big enough table for it decided against it.

[Heavy_Soul]

Benno Spire, on 17 April 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

On a non political note.
Anyone at home doing jigsaws to pass the time have you seen the new jigsaw produced by Kodak that has 51,300 pieces.
I was tempted to get it but at just over £400 and not a big enough table for it decided against it.

Lockdown would be over by the time anyone finished that!

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 17 April 2020 - 10:35 AM, said:

Article in the Mail today - that's the DAILY MAIL - where a GP kinda echoes that theory: https://www.dailymai...oronavirus.html

Johnson's mob realised they hadn't enough gear so told folk just not to bother with it.

Seems almost unbelievable to think a government would put self serving spin before people's well being, but it's the same government that's spent six or more weeks telling everyone there's enough PPE only for frontline staff to confirm otherwise. On a daily basis.

The same government who told us there'd be hundreds of thousands of tests when there're still only tens.

And the same government still failing to declare Covid deaths in the community - many of which might never be included as victims weren't tested either (I hope those quite rightly calling out Chinese inaccuracies will apply the same standards to the UK leadership).

Infact even the mindlessly pro-Johnson media are now turning on him: https://www.thesun.c...kdown-too-slow/

https://www.dailymai...David-King.html

https://www.telegrap...ategy-isnt-one/

I think there's growing realisation that whilst vast swathes of the British public have gone way beyond the call of duty, the British government has been at best complacent and at worst covered incompetence with lies...

Lions lead by Donkeys

Our leadership had to be lead kicking and screaming into this lockdown knowing they didn't' have the wherewithal to get out of it.

No testing, no tracing, no strategy and no appetiite to make unpopular decisions.

[Wooden Spoon]

azul said:

1587124774[/url]' post='1514774']
no appetiite to make unpopular decisions.

That’s probably much nearer the truth than anyone in Whitehall would admit to.

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 17 April 2020 - 10:35 AM, said:

Article in the Mail today - that's the DAILY MAIL - where a GP kinda echoes that theory: https://www.dailymai...oronavirus.html

Johnson's mob realised they hadn't enough gear so told folk just not to bother with it.

Seems almost unbelievable to think a government would put self serving spin before people's well being, but it's the same government that's spent six or more weeks telling everyone there's enough PPE only for frontline staff to confirm otherwise. On a daily basis.

The same government who told us there'd be hundreds of thousands of tests when there're still only tens.

And the same government still failing to declare Covid deaths in the community - many of which might never be included as victims weren't tested either (I hope those quite rightly calling out Chinese inaccuracies will apply the same standards to the UK leadership).

Infact even the mindlessly pro-Johnson media are now turning on him: https://www.thesun.c...kdown-too-slow/

https://www.dailymai...David-King.html

https://www.telegrap...ategy-isnt-one/

I think there's growing realisation that whilst vast swathes of the British public have gone way beyond the call of duty, the British government has been at best complacent and at worst covered incompetence with lies...

The lack of ppe is turning into a National disgrace and quite rightly being highlighted, the out of date equipment, if it has been stringently retested, then why can't it be used again? But yes it's alarming. The slow lockdown seems bad advice from the top people, but has anybody as yet got an effective exit strategy other than slowly slowly?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 17 April 2020 - 02:04 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

https://www.bbc.co.u...-china-52321529

[azul]

Mr Mercury, on 17 April 2020 - 01:42 PM, said:

The lack of ppe is turning into a National disgrace and quite rightly being highlighted, the out of date equipment, if it has been stringently retested, then why can't it be used again? But yes it's alarming. The slow lockdown seems bad advice from the top people, but as anybody as yet got an effective exit strategy other than slowly slowly?

We’ve seen what was needed in the Far East to prevent at least the initial surge in cases and reacting slowly after seeing it mushroom in some countries In Europe. We didn’t learn from italy/Spain mistakes during the rise but we should be able to learn from their successes and failures in their attempts to relax the lockdown.

[azul]

DEATH, on 17 April 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:

https://www.bbc.co.u...-china-52321529

This is only them adding people those who died in the community without testing positive retrospectively. We aren’t including those In our figures and neither is much of Europe or America.

Plenty of sticks to beat China with, but is that one of them?

[fishini]

azul, on 17 April 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

This is only them adding people those who died in the community without testing positive retrospectively. We aren’t including those In our figures and neither is much of Europe or America.

Plenty of sticks to beat China with, but is that one of them?

Do you really believe anything that comes out of China? Are you really that naive? I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers of deaths wasn't much short of 100000, and the date the first case's reported was months out.

[azul]

fishini, on 17 April 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

Do you really believe anything that comes out of China? Are you really that naive? I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers of deaths wasn't much short of 100000, and the date the first case's reported was months out.

No and I thought I’d made that clear.

At least you’ve moved on from attacking the Germans. Progress of sorts

[Mr Mercury]

fishini, on 17 April 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

Do you really believe anything that comes out of China? Are you really that naive? I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers of deaths wasn't much short of 100000, and the date the first case's reported was months out.

There was a link I posted earlier in the thread were Sky news were reporting certain intellegance was saying the number of deaths could have been under reported by as many as 40-1 which would have it pushing a quarter of a million.

[Mr Mercury]

NHS to relax rules on re using PPE , particularly gowns, due to a chronic shortage!

[Wooden Spoon]

Mr Mercury said:

1587139222[/url]' post='1514819']
NHS to relax rules on re using PPE , particularly gowns, due to a chronic shortage!

That is putting NHS staff at risk. That’s not something that should be considered - Hancock needs to face the music.

[Bonnyman]

Not enough questions being asked by the British public,who still think Johnson is some kind of hero,meanwhile frontline services,shop assistants ,bus drivers etc lose their lives.