[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Quaker, on 11 April 2020 - 04:05 PM, said:

Chris, the whole world is struggling to get PPE. We even have Noble's in town making it, nonchalantly joke about Holby's ventilators as much as you like but the world never saw this coming. However, I'm sure the leader of the opposition and MP for Chesterfield did.

My wife works in social care and wasn't given PPE, she contracted the virus and now passed it on to me. She is now over it having had mild symptoms. A couple of days ago I started to deteriorate to a point where we were on the edge of calling 999. Ten mins ago I managed to crawl out of bed for the first time in days.

Am I bitter? No, I'm proud of the fact that people like Noble's, Burberry, Dyson Rolls Royce et al are pulling resources to help the push to get rid of this virus by building ventilators and making PPE. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I have over the last week or so.

It's all well and good Tory bashing or Labour bashing but it doesn't really help. Fingers crossed you and yours and anyone reading this doesn't have to go through it like we have.

My wife will return to the front line on Wednesday, she will be visiting vulnerable people in their homes and caring for them, not for the money but because she cares. These are the very people that passed the virus on to us.

If their families had stayed at home instead of insisting visiting them we would be ok and those clients of my wife who are in the Royal fighting for there lives would not be in that state.

That's not the fault of the Government, that's down to those who refuse to follow the rules by staying at home.

It goes without saying you and yours' have my total sympathy and support, Mark.

And I agree, no one could've properly prepared for this.

But it's not 'tory bashing' to remind ourslves of what they chose to say. The claims they chose to trumpet. The targets they chose to set.

Yet still fall tens of thousands short of.

Johnson, Jenrick and Hancock - to name just three - could've repeated the valid fact there's a worldwide shortage and we're just another country in the queue. Yet, well, they didn't. With medical professional after medical professional now calling out their 'inaccuracies'.

Including my son's care worker girlfriend spending lockdown at ours' who's not seen any PPE for weeks.

I too am proud of the vast majority performing heroics and doing the right thing.

However I make no apology for comparing some - SOME - of this government's approach with the 'lions led by donkeys' of WW1...

[mr. smith]

DEATH, on 11 April 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

You really need to put the shovel down S+D.




I get half your stuff is just wind ups, and most of the time you shouldn’t be taken seriously, but there’s a fine line between wind ups and plain old racism, and you give the impression all to often to be on the wrong side of said line.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52252470








They need a bit more than a round of applause.

https://www.bbc.co.u...health-52145140






This story really boiled my P1S5. In this day and age, in this country, in this crisis.

there was a photo doing the rounds last wk of 3 nurses in bin bags & marigolds, all 3 have no contracted covid.
as you say in 21st century Britain its a disgrace. we are the 5th (8th?) richest country in the world

[azul]

Quaker, on 11 April 2020 - 04:05 PM, said:

Chris, the whole world is struggling to get PPE. We even have Noble's in town making it, nonchalantly joke about Holby's ventilators as much as you like but the world never saw this coming. However, I'm sure the leader of the opposition and MP for Chesterfield did.

My wife works in social care and wasn't given PPE, she contracted the virus and now passed it on to me. She is now over it having had mild symptoms. A couple of days ago I started to deteriorate to a point where we were on the edge of calling 999. Ten mins ago I managed to crawl out of bed for the first time in days.

Am I bitter? No, I'm proud of the fact that people like Noble's, Burberry, Dyson Rolls Royce et al are pulling resources to help the push to get rid of this virus by building ventilators and making PPE. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I have over the last week or so.

It's all well and good Tory bashing or Labour bashing but it doesn't really help. Fingers crossed you and yours and anyone reading this doesn't have to go through it like we have.

My wife will return to the front line on Wednesday, she will be visiting vulnerable people in their homes and caring for them, not for the money but because she cares. These are the very people that passed the virus on to us.

If their families had stayed at home instead of insisting visiting them we would be ok and those clients of my wife who are in the Royal fighting for there lives would not be in that state.

That's not the fault of the Government, that's down to those who refuse to follow the rules by staying at home.

Some countries had more time to react than others, some countries tried to test and trace, others gave up on that early, other countries reacted quickly with lockdowns, some had to be dragged to that conclusion, some countries had accumulated more PPE and critical care units than others. Some countries have starved their healthcare system for 10 years in the name of austrity, others haven’t.

When all this is done and dusted, comparisons will be made

This post has been edited by azul: 11 April 2020 - 09:25 PM

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 11 April 2020 - 06:16 PM, said:

It goes without saying you and yours' have my total sympathy and support, Mark.

And I agree, no one could've properly prepared for this.

But it's not 'tory bashing' to remind ourslves of what they chose to say. The claims they chose to trumpet. The targets they chose to set.

Yet still fall tens of thousands short of.

Johnson, Jenrick and Hancock - to name just three - could've repeated the valid fact there's a worldwide shortage and we're just another country in the queue. Yet, well, they didn't. With medical professional after medical professional now calling out their 'inaccuracies'.

Including my son's care worker girlfriend spending lockdown at ours' who's not seen any PPE for weeks.

I too am proud of the vast majority performing heroics and doing the right thing.

However I make no apology for comparing some - SOME - of this government's approach with the 'lions led by donkeys' of WW1..

You missed off the fact that the UK missed the boat for an EU initiative to procure medical equipment as a block, because someone misplaced an email - oh yeah

[azul]

Quaker, on 11 April 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

I did actually use the word "refuse" you obviously can't work from home so have to make your way in to work. People who drive to Tapton Park to walk their dog or go on 50 mile bike rides or whatever is a different story.

Annoying and selfish as those examples are - will they really be a defining issue in this crisis?

[azul]

mr. smith, on 11 April 2020 - 06:25 PM, said:

there was a photo doing the rounds last wk of 3 nurses in bin bags & marigolds, all 3 have no contracted covid.
as you say in 21st century Britain its a disgrace. we are the 5th (8th?) richest country in the world

And a poor 11th as far as healthcare expenditure is concerned within Europe

[Westbars Spireite]

fishini, on 11 April 2020 - 01:43 PM, said:

How can anyone justify his posts? If I'm supposed to be a xenophobe what is he?

He's similar to you.

[fishini]

Westbars Spireite, on 12 April 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

He's similar to you.

I wish people to die in boats? You talk poo. I say what I feel, I don't put a false persona on, just to conform like many on here do. It seems to me it's people like you who have a problem with honesty

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

They really should keep this Ashok Sharma chap away from the cameras.

Three times Sophie Ridge asked him why Britain has the highest daily death rate in Europe yet three times he trotted out the scapegoating 'following scientific advice' mantra. Before totally dodging the question. Pressed further he bluffed and blustered rather than admit policy had changed from the 'herd immunity' plan - that'd seen tens of thousands at Cheltenham whilst hundreds were already dying every day abroad - to a far too belated lockdown. Again on several occasions. Then the 'Will you apologise for shortcomings' prompt. Which Priti Patel disgracefully tried to turn on victims by saying sorry if people feel they've been let down: https://www.manchest...logise-18079560

Surprise-surprise no response.

I'll repeat what I've said in an earlier post - it'd be unreasonable to expect any government to've been prepared for Covid. However given the gulf between what this government knew and promised and what we've actually witnessed it's not unreasonable to expect straight answers why.

[Westbars Spireite]

fishini, on 12 April 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

I wish people to die in boats? You talk poo. I say what I feel, I don't put a false persona on, just to conform like many on here do. It seems to me it's people like you who have a problem with honesty

Not at all. You need to be honest with yourself first. Your anti German stance is little different to Islamaphobia. In truth far more irrational.

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 April 2020 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'll repeat what I've said in an earlier post - it'd be unreasonable to expect any government to've been prepared for Covid. However given the gulf between what this government knew and promised and what we've actually witnessed it's not unreasonable to expect straight answers why.

… and they will be forthcoming.

Mistakes caused by trying to interpret trends in statistics too early.
Mistakes caused by underestimating immensely complicated demand and supply chains.
Mistakes caused by inexperienced politicians being over optimistic and reluctant to answer direct questions.
and many more.

Maybe I'm being benevolent, but I associate them with human nature, apolitical.

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 April 2020 - 08:02 AM, said:

They really should keep this Ashok Sharma chap away from the cameras.

Three times Sophie Ridge asked him why Britain has the highest daily death rate in Europe yet three times he trotted out the scapegoating 'following scientific advice' mantra. Before totally dodging the question. Pressed further he bluffed and blustered rather than admit policy had changed from the 'herd immunity' plan - that'd seen tens of thousands at Cheltenham whilst hundreds were already dying every day abroad - to a far too belated lockdown. Again on several occasions. Then the 'Will you apologise for shortcomings' prompt. Which Priti Patel disgracefully tried to turn on victims by saying sorry if people feel they've been let down: https://www.manchest...logise-18079560

Surprise-surprise no response.

I'll repeat what I've said in an earlier post - it'd be unreasonable to expect any government to've been prepared for Covid. However given the gulf between what this government knew and promised and what we've actually witnessed it's not unreasonable to expect straight answers why.

Trouble is Johson either purged or lost most of his experienced ministers before/after the last election and was left with the likes of Rabb, Patel, Sharma, Mogg, Gove, etc.

Then again he didn't need competent ministers as Dominic Cummings was sorting it all out. Actually has anyone seen Cummings lately? He was seen running down Downing Street with his bags the day Johnson was diagnosed with Covid-19.

This post has been edited by azul: 12 April 2020 - 11:20 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 12 April 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

… and they will be forthcoming.

Mistakes caused by trying to interpret trends in statistics too early.
Mistakes caused by underestimating immensely complicated demand and supply chains.
Mistakes caused by inexperienced politicians being over optimistic and reluctant to answer direct questions.
and many more.

Maybe I'm being benevolent, but I associate them with human nature, apolitical.

The trends in statistics were available abroad.

Yet it wasn't until early March Johnson chaired his first COBRA meeting before using it to taunt Corbyn. How 'apolitical' was that?

The warnings about supply and demand were available from the 'Cygnus' exercise.

Yet ignored amidst more under investment. And more 'hostile environment' speaches. And more blaming the very immigrants staffing public services.

The warnings about the current cabinet - several of whom do have experience to the point of being fired by previous PM's - being over optimistic and reluctant to answer direct questions were there at the last election. When, say, Boris Johnson hid in a fridge after promising an interview. Or promising forty more hospitals when there were only six. At best. Or promising fifty thousand new nurses which quickly turned to thirty. Possibly. Perhaps. Or we could quote the 'sunny uplands' or 'have our cake and eat it' or 'three hundred and fifty million a week to the NHS' or countless other Brexit lies. All of which became 'it won't be as bad as those experts you shouldn't listen to are saying', of course.

Nah Dave. Suggesting some sort of free pass for this lot is like folk on the other forum meeting every emerging scandal with 'I'm sure lessons will be learned/benefit of the doubt/forgive and forget' style platitudes...

[clarevoyant.]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 April 2020 - 12:26 PM, said:

The trends in statistics were available abroad.

Yet it wasn't until early March Johnson chaired his first COBRA meeting before using it to taunt Corbyn. How 'apolitical' was that?

The warnings about supply and demand were available from the 'Cygnus' exercise.

Yet ignored amidst more under investment. And more 'hostile environment' speaches. And more blaming the very immigrants staffing public services.

The warnings about the current cabinet - several of whom do have experience to the point of being fired by previous PM's - being over optimistic and reluctant to answer direct questions were there at the last election. When, say, Boris Johnson hid in a fridge after promising an interview. Or promising forty more hospitals when there were only six. At best. Or promising fifty thousand new nurses which quickly turned to thirty. Possibly. Perhaps. Or we could quote the 'sunny uplands' or 'have our cake and eat it' or 'three hundred and fifty million a week to the NHS' or countless other Brexit lies. All of which became 'it won't be as bad as those experts you shouldn't listen to are saying', of course.

Nah Dave. Suggesting some sort of free pass for this lot is like folk on the other forum meeting every emerging scandal with 'I'm sure lessons will be learned/benefit of the doubt/forgive and forget' style platitudes...

Come on Chris, we do have to be grateful to the Tories in certain aspects after all they were responsible for the reform of Sunday licensing laws.

[isleaiw1]

clarevoyant., on 12 April 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Come on Chris, we do have to be grateful to the Tories in certain aspects after all they were responsible for the reform of Sunday licensing laws.

Whatever their failings, and there have been a few, because most are career politicians and have limited experience of the real world, it could have been much worse - Corbyn, MacDonnell, Abbott, Momentum - probably still be having a committee meeting to decide who should make the decision about which group of minority should be saved first...

Just glad I didn’t have to make the decisions - being criticised by those whose biggest decision is deciding what to wear in a morning is frankly bemusing....

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: 12 April 2020 - 01:34 PM

[Misnomer]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 April 2020 - 12:26 PM, said:

The trends in statistics were available abroad.

Yet it wasn't until early March Johnson chaired his first COBRA meeting before using it to taunt Corbyn. How 'apolitical' was that?

The warnings about supply and demand were available from the 'Cygnus' exercise.

Yet ignored amidst more under investment. And more 'hostile environment' speaches. And more blaming the very immigrants staffing public services.

The warnings about the current cabinet - several of whom do have experience to the point of being fired by previous PM's - being over optimistic and reluctant to answer direct questions were there at the last election. When, say, Boris Johnson hid in a fridge after promising an interview. Or promising forty more hospitals when there were only six. At best. Or promising fifty thousand new nurses which quickly turned to thirty. Possibly. Perhaps. Or we could quote the 'sunny uplands' or 'have our cake and eat it' or 'three hundred and fifty million a week to the NHS' or countless other Brexit lies. All of which became 'it won't be as bad as those experts you shouldn't listen to are saying', of course.

Nah Dave. Suggesting some sort of free pass for this lot is like folk on the other forum meeting every emerging scandal with 'I'm sure lessons will be learned/benefit of the doubt/forgive and forget' style platitudes...

Well said. It's a disgrace, top to bottom; no matter what way it's presented. I'm utterly appalled. No wonder the nurses are being told not to treat covid19 patients without the correct PPE: you wouldn't send miners down a pit without a Canary.

[mr. smith]

isleaiw1, on 12 April 2020 - 01:30 PM, said:

Whatever their failings, and there have been a few, because most are career politicians and have limited experience of the real world, it could have been much worse - Corbyn, MacDonnell, Abbott, Momentum - probably still be having a committee meeting to decide who should make the decision about which group of minority should be saved first...

Just glad I didn’t have to make the decisions - being criticised by those whose biggest decision is deciding what to wear in a morning is frankly bemusing....

& that's the answer? be grateful as it could/would/may have been worse. mistakes have been made, whoever is in charge they would be made & at some point in the future answers must be given but what doesn't wash is the lies & evasion given from the podiums regarding testing, ppe etc.

[Goku]

isleaiw1, on 12 April 2020 - 01:30 PM, said:

Whatever their failings, and there have been a few, because most are career politicians and have limited experience of the real world, it could have been much worse - Corbyn, MacDonnell, Abbott, Momentum - probably still be having a committee meeting to decide who should make the decision about which group of minority should be saved first...

Just glad I didn’t have to make the decisions - being criticised by those whose biggest decision is deciding what to wear in a morning is frankly bemusing....

1. If Corbyn had been in charge and had done the exact same steps as this Government has he would be getting destroyed
2. Great last line - don’t criticise because you don’t do their job lol. 5* 200 IQ big brained comment