[CFC91]

hardgums, on 04 April 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

Not the first thing I look for when wanting to discuss Spireite matters

You’re in the wrong part of forum for that. This part of the forum aside from Bennos prediction league is the area that’s probably the most interesting to read.

As for Starmer, right choice from the outside looking in, guaranteed to bring the party back closer to the centre so they are more electable for the masses. If he isn’t pressed on Brexit I think he will do well. Though there’s an uphill task and if we come out of the Covid crisis not in recession I think a lot of people will be thankful for the current governments intervention and although we will be paying for it for years, their efforts could secure them another term in my opinion.

[azul]

CFC91, on 04 April 2020 - 07:36 PM, said:

You’re in the wrong part of forum for that. This part of the forum aside from Bennos prediction league is the area that’s probably the most interesting to read.

As for Starmer, right choice from the outside looking in, guaranteed to bring the party back closer to the centre so they are more electable for the masses. If he isn’t pressed on Brexit I think he will do well. Though there’s an uphill task and if we come out of the Covid crisis not in recession I think a lot of people will be thankful for the current governments intervention and although we will be paying for it for years, their efforts could secure them another term in my opinion.

Do you really think the country is going exit this crisis not in recession? This country will be a very different place in 5 years (for good or bad) but certainly with a different set of issues.

[isleaiw1]

He strikes me as Tony Blair without the charm. I know someone who worked with him who speaks very highly of him. I worry that he is almost irrelevant whilst Momentum control the NEC.

Boris is going to preside over the worst recession in living memory, or ever... if Labour cant win next time he is a massive failure...

[Mr Mercury]

isleaiw1, on 04 April 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

He strikes me as Tony Blair without the charm. I know someone who worked with him who speaks very highly of him. I worry that he is almost irrelevant whilst Momentum control the NEC.

Boris is going to preside over the worst recession in living memory, or ever... if Labour cant win next time he is a massive failure...

Contrary to many views the electorate arnt stupid, they voted massively against Labour last time because of the perceived u turn and ignoring many of their core voters over Brexit, when the next election happens if we are in a massive economic down turn due to the current situation they will realise it had to be done.

[mr. smith]

Mr Mercury, on 04 April 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

Contrary to many views the electorate arnt stupid, they voted massively against Labour last time because of the perceived u turn and ignoring many of their core voters over Brexit, when the next election happens if we are in a massive economic down turn due to the current situation they will realise it had to be done.

You give them too much credit.

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 04 April 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

He strikes me as Tony Blair without the charm. I know someone who worked with him who speaks very highly of him. I worry that he is almost irrelevant whilst Momentum control the NEC.

Boris is going to preside over the worst recession in living memory, or ever... if Labour cant win next time he is a massive failure...

There was a sigificant change in the balance pf power towards the centre-left at the NEC bye elections. I expect Starmer to use his strong mandate to shape it further

This post has been edited by azul: 05 April 2020 - 12:07 AM

[azul]

mr. smith, on 04 April 2020 - 11:29 PM, said:

You give them too much credit.

Got to agree. After the immediate crisis is over it'll probably be 4 years to the next election. God knows what the economic and political landscape will look like

This post has been edited by azul: 05 April 2020 - 12:17 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 04 April 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

Contrary to many views the electorate arnt stupid, they voted massively against Labour last time because of the perceived u turn and ignoring many of their core voters over Brexit, when the next election happens if we are in a massive economic down turn due to the current situation they will realise it had to be done.

Just as supporting the worldwide economy after the bankers crashed it 'had to be done', Mark.

But that didn't stop the Tories and the millionaire media blaming Labour. Accusations they still repeated during the last election. Infact I've just heard Hancock trot out the latest cabinet mantra 'Sunak's been lauded all over the world' despite them sneering when similar stuff was said of Brown.

For what it's worth Sunak's come out of this with credit (no pun), however let's see if his colleagues share your faith in the electorate to not only cease such hypocrisy but admit the truth for once...

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 April 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

https://www.mirror.c...labour-21812646

Well, it's a good start that the electoral college has binned Corbyn's and McDonald's recommendations. He's now got to bin Long Bailey, Thornberry and a few other comics and get some folk who everybody recognises as good clear thinkers and communicators - like Benn, Nandy - in his Shadow cabinet.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 05 April 2020 - 09:03 AM, said:

Well, it's a good start that the electoral college has binned Corbyn's and McDonald's recommendations. He's now got to bin Long Bailey, Thornberry and a few other comics and get some folk who everybody recognises as good clear thinkers and communicators - like Benn, Nandy - in his Shadow cabinet.

'Binned' the recommendations or just the characters themselves, Dave?

Given Sunak's currently implementing so much of what voters supported in focus groups until Corbyn's name was mentioned.

Either way you and others are right, though.

I doubt there'll be a mass expulsion, but if Starmer's to have any success he's gotta appoint folk with talent instead of simply singing 'Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn' on cue...

PS: yeah, I get the contradiction of him being a shadow minister what saying that, too...

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 April 2020 - 08:34 AM, said:

Just as supporting the worldwide economy after the bankers crashed it 'had to be done', Mark.

But that didn't stop the Tories and the millionaire media blaming Labour. Accusations they still repeated during the last election. Infact I've just heard Hancock trot out the latest cabinet mantra 'Sunak's been lauded all over the world' despite them sneering when similar stuff was said of Brown.

For what it's worth Sunak's come out of this with credit (no pun), however let's see if his colleagues share your faith in the electorate to not only cease such hypocrisy but admit the truth for once...

I might be a bit simplistic with this but I think the electorate wil judge this crisis in broader terms rather than politically at the next election, but likes been said a hell of a lot could change worldwide over the next few years.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 05 April 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

I might be a bit simplistic with this but I think the electorate wil judge this crisis in broader terms rather than politically at the next election, but likes been said a hell of a lot could change worldwide over the next few years.

As you've so rightly stated Brexit was key, pal.

Numerous people turned tory as a result and will be loath to admit they got it wrong.

Accepting Johnson and Co lied at the election might also mean admitting they lied over leaving, too.

So folk'll even be tolerant of his governments pi** poor pandemic response.

Not calling them or owt, it's just how human nature works, that's all.

I do think it'll be impossible for any politician, lobbyist or commentator to stand up and demand tax cuts over public services in future, though. To talk of sending home all those immigrants currently so vital to our infrastructure. To push the 'every man for himself/law of the jungle' free marketeering that in many ways brought us to where we are.

Infact it might be argued the sh*t show that's Covid has made socialists of us all...

[CFC91]

How is it **** poor and how much different do you the opposition response would have been had it won the election? Like Brexit, like the election the opposition to me seems to be full of criticism but not very good at offering reasonable, rationale solutions.

I think from reading social media (which in the run up to the election and Brexit was very left wing / remain to the put you’d think the results would be totally different) most people seem to think the economic package for the employed, the vulnerable and self employed to protect people’s incomes, homes, families etc (the thing most every day person cares about) is very good, and not something you’d have expected from a Tory government. There is the expectation that we will be paying this back for years to come, and the economic landscape will be changes for years.

Sunak and co have done as much as they could in my opinion, over a short space of time to implement a system and get it up and running. I don’t think it’s **** poor at all, its surprisingly good and will help out a lot of my friends who I know were ******* themselves for want of a better phrase.

As for the lack of equipment, ordinarily any country wouldn’t have required the volume of ventilators, testing equipment etc for a normal winter so stockpiling this kind of stuff for a once in a century outbreak makes no sense, but that’s been outlined a few times already on this thread.

I’ll be suprised if we are up to 100,000 test per day by the end of the month but as long as we’re testing the people that need to be tested which we are beginning to do so then that is enough - as much as I’d love a test as I believe I could have had it so I can go back outside, it’s not important and I am happy following government guidelines until necessary.

I think some political views are clouding people’s judgements and to take a step back and be impartial in a situation like this helps give a bit of context about what we are up against, and how we are doing.

This post has been edited by CFC91: 05 April 2020 - 10:23 AM

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 April 2020 - 10:00 AM, said:

As you've so rightly stated Brexit was key, pal.

Numerous people turned tory as a result and will be loath to admit they got it wrong.

Accepting Johnson and Co lied at the election might also mean admitting they lied over leaving, too.

So folk'll even be tolerant of his governments pi** poor pandemic response.

Not calling them or owt, it's just how human nature works, that's all.

I do think it'll be impossible for any politician, lobbyist or commentator to stand up and demand tax cuts over public services in future, though. To talk of sending home all those immigrants currently so vital to our infrastructure. To push the 'every man for himself/law of the jungle' free marketeering that in many ways brought us to where we are.

Infact it might be argued the sh*t show that's Covid has made socialists of us all...

It's certainly going to be a game changer in everything the world does in future.
As an aside can you imagine the devastation if this was as deadly as Ebola but as contagious as it is! The average mortality rate from Ebola outbreaks is around 50% but it's very very difficult to catch it...something to,focus the mind in future for everybody.

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 April 2020 - 09:37 AM, said:

I doubt there'll be a mass expulsion, but if Starmer's to have any success he's gotta appoint folk with talent instead of simply singing 'Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn' on cue...

I'm not in to Labour Party rules. Does he get a free hand with his appointments?

[azul]

Mr Mercury, on 05 April 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

I might be a bit simplistic with this but I think the electorate wil judge this crisis in broader terms rather than politically at the next election, but likes been said a hell of a lot could change worldwide over the next few years.

I don't know why you're so sure, history doesn't back that up.

Why did Churchill (the guy Johnson likes to think of himself as) get the boot after WW2 when he was expected to be a shoo-in - because people wanted something different

Why did the labour goverment get booted out after setting up popular stuff like the health service and welfare state - because rationing and post war austerity went on too long

I'd argue the neither particularily deserved the boot, but the ramifications of massive events (and this is one) took precedence

[mr. smith]

CFC91, on 05 April 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

How is it **** poor and how much different do you the opposition response would have been had it won the election? Like Brexit, like the election the opposition to me seems to be full of criticism but not very good at offering reasonable, rationale solutions.

I think from reading social media (which in the run up to the election and Brexit was very left wing / remain to the put you’d think the results would be totally different) most people seem to think the economic package for the employed, the vulnerable and self employed to protect people’s incomes, homes, families etc (the thing most every day person cares about) is very good, and not something you’d have expected from a Tory government. There is the expectation that we will be paying this back for years to come, and the economic landscape will be changes for years.

Sunak and co have done as much as they could in my opinion, over a short space of time to implement a system and get it up and running. I don’t think it’s **** poor at all, its surprisingly good and will help out a lot of my friends who I know were ******* themselves for want of a better phrase.

As for the lack of equipment, ordinarily any country wouldn’t have required the volume of ventilators, testing equipment etc for a normal winter so stockpiling this kind of stuff for a once in a century outbreak makes no sense, but that’s been outlined a few times already on this thread.

I’ll be suprised if we are up to 100,000 test per day by the end of the month but as long as we’re testing the people that need to be tested which we are beginning to do so then that is enough - as much as I’d love a test as I believe I could have had it so I can go back outside, it’s not important and I am happy following government guidelines until necessary.

I think some political views are clouding people’s judgements and to take a step back and be impartial in a situation like this helps give a bit of context about what we are up against, and how we are doing.

if you don't think overall the response has been poor due a bit of googling.
we are getting thru this by the skin of our teeth & the bravery of frontline nhs staff.

[azul]

dim view, on 05 April 2020 - 10:36 AM, said:

I'm not in to Labour Party rules. Does he get a free hand with his appointments?

Yes he does but he'll try to create a balance for obvious reasons.

Don't expect Long-Bailey to be dropped for starters. Until she was pushed as Corbyn's annointed successor she was highly regarded performer by most political commentators of all persussions. She young and in my opinion lacks astuteness at the moment. I'd expect the appointments to balanced with the likes Benn, Cooper, Rachel Reeves and even Miliband along with a lot of new blood I'm not famliar with.

The all powerful NEC is a different matter. The members are appointed/elected by the various steakholders within the party. But as most of these steakholders heavily backed Starmer the makeup will only go in one direction. The membershp have already voted against a number Momentum backed candidates and appointed more centralist candidates.

[stevie_b]

Goku, on 04 April 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

I voted for him. The only logical candidate to vote for really. I liked Nandy until she decided to agree with an LGBT group that there was no difference between a biological woman vs a transwoman which is demonstrably false so I gave up on her.

He’s got a decent record, but I don’t know how well a remainer is going to go down when Labour is trying to win back the working class midlands/northern vote who clearly voted Brexit. We shall see.

Thank you for this. Just so pleased that somebody gets the woman/transwoman debate. I'm female: a biological woman. There's a world of difference between me and a transwoman.

[stevie_b]

hardgums, on 04 April 2020 - 06:15 PM, said:

Much as I think Sir S is the right person for Labour, I'm struggling to see why this is a CFC topic. If you guys wanna talk politics go ahead - just not on here

This is the 'Personal' section of the forum. What would you like us to discuss here?

This post has been edited by stevie_b: 05 April 2020 - 11:41 AM