[Mr Mercury]

fishini, on 20 January 2020 - 08:52 PM, said:

Homo sapiens have been eating meat since we evolved. If it's so bad it make you wonder how as a species we have survived. I may be wrong but is meat the only natural source of vitamin D and vegan have to take vitamin D supplements

But don't we make use without an appendix now, I do, which we all have that was to enable humans to digest a largely plant based diet?

[fishini]

Mr Mercury, on 21 January 2020 - 11:10 AM, said:

But don't we make use without an appendix now, I do, which we all have that was to enable humans to digest a largely plant based diet?

Millions of years ago. We are omnivores now. There are primates that will eat meat.

[Mr Mercury]

fishini, on 21 January 2020 - 12:23 PM, said:

Millions of years ago. We are omnivores now. There are primates that will eat meat.

The chimpanzees are particularly vicious when that diet appeals.

[Goku]

fishini, on 21 January 2020 - 10:04 AM, said:

So it was consumed by the animals in the way you describe?

As I understand it, that and direct consumption by humans from unwashed veg, dirty water consumption and suchlike. Nowadays the majority are given the supplement directly which you consume second hand through their bodies.

You’ve not explained why natural = good or why unnatural = bad. That’s the crux of the argument you made a few posts back. There are certainly some nutrients which are hard to get enough of when you’re vegan without supplementation such as vitamin D and b12 but why is taking a supplement which gives you these vitamins worse than killing an animal to consume them second hand, when particularly in b12’s case, has been given to them via supplement in the first place?

[fishini]

Goku, on 21 January 2020 - 02:51 PM, said:

As I understand it, that and direct consumption by humans from unwashed veg, dirty water consumption and suchlike. Nowadays the majority are given the supplement directly which you consume second hand through their bodies.

You’ve not explained why natural = good or why unnatural = bad. That’s the crux of the argument you made a few posts back. There are certainly some nutrients which are hard to get enough of when you’re vegan without supplementation such as vitamin D and b12 but why is taking a supplement which gives you these vitamins worse than killing an animal to consume them second hand, when particularly in b12’s case, has been given to them via supplement in the first place?

I think you mistook what I was trying to say. Some vegans I know argue we are not designed to eat meat and that we are herbivores. If that is the case then we should not need supplements. We are by design omnivores that is fact. I hold no grudge whatsoever against vegans, but for some to say we are not designed to eat meat is ludicrous. I have nothing but respect for and your choice of you want to live your life. Just as everyone does

[Goku]

Ah ok, fair enough. With regards to that whole argument it’s not one I’m that bothered about personally. Whether we are omnivorous or not, if you can eat a less environmentally-impactful and less cruel diet and live a healthy life then I think that’s what should be done regardless of what we are ‘designed’ to do. And we can do that, so I do.

[calvin plummers socks]

Anyone / Gok seen a documentary called ‘Game Changers’ about plant based diet- primarily in US sport but also health benefits?

Absolutely brilliant - hadn’t heard of it but an old friend of mine is in it and she mentioned it via email last week.

Available on Netflix if that’s available up north yet ;-)

[joe]

calvin plummers socks, on 21 January 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:

Anyone / Gok seen a documentary called ‘Game Changers’ about plant based diet- primarily in US sport but also health benefits?

Absolutely brilliant - hadn’t heard of it but an old friend of mine is in it and she mentioned it via email last week.

Available on Netflix if that’s available up north yet ;-)

It's on Youtube as well

[isleaiw1]

I think its fair to say that the climate is declining more rapidly now than ever before..... but we all have eaten meat for ages. So if eating meat is the most environmentally damaging thing we can do, why is it getting worse when more people are adopting a plant based diet?

Genuine question, as this is not something I know much about...

[Goku]

I think you’d be better off doing your own research. It’s all there on the internet and you’re a clever lad, I’m sure it’ll all fall into place, or you’ll at least be able to figure out why the below 1% of humans on earth who follow a plant based diet aren’t currently making enough of an impact to offset literally everything else which produces carbon just yet.

This post has been edited by Goku: 22 January 2020 - 06:14 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1 said:

1579705878[/url]' post='1504798']
I think its fair to say that the climate is declining more rapidly now than ever before..... but we all have eaten meat for ages. So if eating meat is the most environmentally damaging thing we can do, why is it getting worse when more people are adopting a plant based diet?

Genuine question, as this is not something I know much about...

Back in the day folk ate meat once, maybe twice a week. The Sunday Roast. Now people eat meat with almost every meal.

[isleaiw1]

Goku, on 22 January 2020 - 06:09 PM, said:

I think you’d be better off doing your own research. It’s all there on the internet and you’re a clever lad, I’m sure it’ll all fall into place, or you’ll at least be able to figure out why the below 1% of humans on earth who follow a plant based diet aren’t currently making enough of an impact to offset literally everything else which produces carbon just yet.

I am - but I am trying to workout if stopping eating meat will do more good than not driving my car, or not ordering stuff off the internet that has to incur lorry miles - or buying my meat from local butcher with low lorry miles versus my plant based stuff from a supermarket with much higher lorry miles. Or my avocados and what have you that are flown around the world to give all season long availability?

It was a genuine question but I guess the answer isn’t positive or you would have been quick to tell me?

DEATH, on 22 January 2020 - 06:29 PM, said:

Back in the day folk ate meat once, maybe twice a week. The Sunday Roast. Now people eat meat with almost every meal.

They might have had cheap cuts or offal but pretty sure most working families had some form of protein on their meal most days? My mum talks about her dad keeping chickens for eggs and meat...

[Goku]

The answer to your question was that it is outrageously unrealistic for below 1% of the world’s population who consume a plant based diet to be tipping the scales against everybody who eats meat plus all the other carbon-producing things.You literally mentioned how much other countries are contributing to carbon emissions earlier in the thread?

You don’t have to eat either meat or avocados. You can eat neither if you like. Eat organic and local if it takes your fancy, you’ve got the money for it.

This post has been edited by Goku: 22 January 2020 - 10:45 PM

[spireitetoo]

isleaiw1, on 22 January 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

I think its fair to say that the climate is declining more rapidly now than ever before..... but we all have eaten meat for ages. So if eating meat is the most environmentally damaging thing we can do, why is it getting worse when more people are adopting a plant based diet?

Genuine question, as this is not something I know much about...

The warmer a kettle gets the faster it seems to heats up, could be a similar scenario with the earth?

[isleaiw1]

spireitetoo, on 23 January 2020 - 07:12 AM, said:

The warmer a kettle gets the faster it seems to heats up, could be a similar scenario with the earth?

Now that's an answer that makes sense. My point wasnt that plant based diets arent making it better, its that we still do the same in terms of diet but it is getting worse.

I reckon food miles are a bigger issue, so trying to avoid those. And stopped buying disposable stuff....

Goku, on 22 January 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

The answer to your question was that it is outrageously unrealistic for below 1% of the world’s population who consume a plant based diet to be tipping the scales against everybody who eats meat plus all the other carbon-producing things.You literally mentioned how much other countries are contributing to carbon emissions earlier in the thread?

You don’t have to eat either meat or avocados. You can eat neither if you like. Eat organic and local if it takes your fancy, you’ve got the money for it.

I dont expect plant based eaters to be making a difference, but I wondered why people doing what they have done from an eating perspective is making it worse?

Who knows if I can afford it, sodding tenants not paying their rent. Not sure the bank would be so tolerant if I didnt pay the mortgage on time...

[Paragon of Virtue]

The biggest cause for increasing rate of carbon emission, in Western countries at least has to be the increased level of cars, especially the horrible SUVs which are so common now.

[isleaiw1]

Paragon of Virtue, on 23 January 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

The biggest cause for increasing rate of carbon emission, in Western countries at least has to be the increased level of cars, especially the horrible SUVs which are so common now.

Or the ten thousand vans delivering stuff bought off Amazon etc - or maybe all of the Ubers..... or the HGVs delivering stuff made overseas of fruit and veg flown around the world...

Its definitely not the clapped out all vehicles that arent Euro 5 / 6 whatever compliant....

(And no I dont have a SUV...but I did before and it really wasnt horrible)

[Paragon of Virtue]

isleaiw1, on 23 January 2020 - 03:42 PM, said:

Or the ten thousand vans delivering stuff bought off Amazon etc - or maybe all of the Ubers..... or the HGVs delivering stuff made overseas of fruit and veg flown around the world...

Its definitely not the clapped out all vehicles that arent Euro 5 / 6 whatever compliant....

(And no I dont have a SUV...but I did before and it really wasnt horrible)

Looks like it's SUVs
https://www.theguard...-figures-reveal

[jack'smyboy]

fishini, on 20 January 2020 - 08:52 PM, said:

Homo sapiens have been eating meat since we evolved. If it's so bad it make you wonder how as a species we have survived. I may be wrong but is meat the only natural source of vitamin D and vegan have to take vitamin D supplements

You can have a lengthy lecture on Vit D if you want, but the short version is you get next to nowt from food, meat or otherwise. Sunshine (with no sunscreen), or hit the supplements.

[jack'smyboy]

Goku, on 22 January 2020 - 06:09 PM, said:

I think you’d be better off doing your own research. It’s all there on the internet and you’re a clever lad, I’m sure it’ll all fall into place, or you’ll at least be able to figure out why the below 1% of humans on earth who follow a plant based diet aren’t currently making enough of an impact to offset literally everything else which produces carbon just yet.

Even with a plant based diet, you'll not be carbon neutral, let alone offsetting other humans. The biggest problem is the population growth.