[moondog]

Blue5, on 27 July 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Ashley is playing with you. They have the resources and access to the best financial and legal advisors in South Yorkshire and Derbyshire to conduct due diligence, yet BB members need to fill the void. Do me a favour!

Do you not think that David and Ashley are more than aware of the likes Reg Brealey, Richard Chester and Tony Kenworthy? Which serious investor, intent on making a go of it would have a 78 year old lined up as CEO and a bloke as DoF who has been out of the professional game for years?

Ashley has gone out of his way to say this group had offered considerably more than £3M, that being the case I would like him to identify who the money-man was!

To conclude, if this deal was right for David and Ashley, why would either care if this new group, and I use the word 'new' extremely loosely, had wanted to install a DoF which may have upset Martin?

It all looks to me like this group was carefully assembled, though perhaps not carefully enough, for others to hide behind.

I'm not saying the club don't have access to the resources, the point was about saving them some money, whilst also allowing fans to see they have made such requests when it suited them, hardly being played

[metallilad]

60s 70s Spireite, on 26 July 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

You also posted:
‘The new consortium must've spoken to him at some point and he is bound to have asked them questions himself so all the paranoia about him being undermined is just gonna be worthless worries.’
It seems it was worth a whittle.

Wow. All this attention you keep showing me.
I like it......

Makes me feel......Special.

[Phil V 72]

Blue5, on 27 July 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

Mate, we are playing non league football next season, not to mention the never-ending list of embarrassing events! Yeah, better the devil you know!

We need to get out of this mess - would you rather the club be in the hands of someone well capitalised who is prepared to play the 'long game' with regard to their investment or a fly-by-night group with no money?

I hate what's gone on as much as anyone I assure you but we just need to get out of non league asap.

[Blue5]

Phil V 72, on 27 July 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

We need to get out of this mess - would you rather the club be in the hands of someone well capitalised who is prepared to play the 'long game' with regard to their investment or a fly-by-night group with no money?

I hate what's gone on as much as anyone I assure you but we just need to get out of non league asap.

David has, as you put it, been well capitalised throughout and look where that has taken us. Perhaps you need to give some consideration what the 'long game' might be, quantify it and then tell the rest of us.

[Lincs Spireite]

Phil V 72, on 27 July 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Trying to unpick it all and making it all make sense isn't easy but from what I've gathered on here, and putting aside whether the consortium was genuine or not Dave Allen would have retained an interest of some sort. Which means, he has a vested interest in the club being successful - if he lets anyone take control of it who is going to risk it falling into administration then he could potentially lose control of his investment.

In his last interview DA's view is that the most important thing in a successful club is a good manager, and Martin Allen is very much DA's man. Whether Martin Allen would have told him directly or whether word got to DA that the manager might walk, this must have set alarm bells ringing. DA, for all his faults, ain't daft and the last thing he wants is another period of Branston/Caldwell/Lester - type appointments. He might not give two hoots about the fans but he does care about getting his money back at some point, so any murmourings of MA leaving puts his plan back at square one and his investment, even secured as a charge against the stadium, is no longer on a sure footing.

What the club needs now is a period of stability and consistency - since MA was appointed the club has started to regain this. Why? Well, because he's put a single person in charge of many areas of the club who KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING. On that alone, I'll hold my hands up and say it looks like DA has made a good appointment. Much as I hate to say it I think the 2 Allen's are probably the best scenario for CFC at the moment. This isn't a post defending DA and I don't forget what's happened but talking to a Stockport fan at work makes me realise that we need to get back into the league ASAP. There could well be summat fishy in the background to this process but I'm glad it's fallen through and I'm leaning towards a 'better the devil you know' stance at the moment.

That is a spot on assessment. If MA was to walk, then in my opinion so would a large quantity of fans and the real prospect of a triple drop leaving DA to lose all his money.

[sophocles]

Phil V 72, on 27 July 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Trying to unpick it all and making it all make sense isn't easy but from what I've gathered on here, and putting aside whether the consortium was genuine or not Dave Allen would have retained an interest of some sort. Which means, he has a vested interest in the club being successful - if he lets anyone take control of it who is going to risk it falling into administration then he could potentially lose control of his investment.

In his last interview DA's view is that the most important thing in a successful club is a good manager, and Martin Allen is very much DA's man. Whether Martin Allen would have told him directly or whether word got to DA that the manager might walk, this must have set alarm bells ringing. DA, for all his faults, ain't daft and the last thing he wants is another period of Branston/Caldwell/Lester - type appointments. He might not give two hoots about the fans but he does care about getting his money back at some point, so any murmourings of MA leaving puts his plan back at square one and his investment, even secured as a charge against the stadium, is no longer on a sure footing.

What the club needs now is a period of stability and consistency - since MA was appointed the club has started to regain this. Why? Well, because he's put a single person in charge of many areas of the club who KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING. On that alone, I'll hold my hands up and say it looks like DA has made a good appointment. Much as I hate to say it I think the 2 Allen's are probably the best scenario for CFC at the moment. This isn't a post defending DA and I don't forget what's happened but talking to a Stockport fan at work makes me realise that we need to get back into the league ASAP. There could well be summat fishy in the background to this process but I'm glad it's fallen through and I'm leaning towards a 'better the devil you know' stance at the moment.

Fair and reasoned points, but what I still cannot understand is why, assuming DA does have a vested interest, he pulled the rug from under Cooky's feet and sat back watching the demolition job as that great squad was destroyed? I can only conclude that it was just pure spitefulnes, but then that raises the question of why is he now apparently trying to reverse the decline he himself caused? As you can tell, I'm just completely and utterly confused, so I'm just going to focus on what improvement MA can bring on the pitch.

[ELTON 2020]

Blue5, on 27 July 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Ashley is playing with you. They have the resources and access to the best financial and legal advisors in South Yorkshire and Derbyshire to conduct due diligence, yet BB members need to fill the void. Do me a favour!

Do you not think that David and Ashley are more than aware of the likes Reg Brealey, Richard Chester and Tony Kenworthy? Which serious investor, intent on making a go of it would have a 78 year old lined up as CEO and a bloke as DoF who has been out of the professional game for years?

Ashley has gone out of his way to say this group had offered considerably more than £3M, that being the case I would like him to identify who the money-man was!

To conclude, if this deal was right for David and Ashley, why would either care if this new group, and I use the word 'new' extremely loosely, had wanted to install a DoF which may have upset Martin?

It all looks to me like this group was carefully assembled, though perhaps not carefully enough, for others to hide behind.

TBH All this takeover ***** of the last year or so has been embarrassing to say the least; one fiasco after another. Honestly, people seem happier with the status quo atm. We have a great cheerleader and manager in MA. A period of stability where we can enjoy success again is need - regardless of who is at the helm.

[Tha Knows...]

Elton John 2018, on 27 July 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

TBH All this takeover ***** of the last year or so has been embarrassing to say the least; one fiasco after another. Honestly, people seem happier with the status quo atm. We have a great cheerleader and manager in MA. A period of stability where we can enjoy success again is need - regardless of who is at the helm.

Stability is in DAs hands. He says 2 months ago he’s waiting til we are back in L1 before selling, then club say they’ve been negotiating a sale for 5 months which has collapsed, Not very stabilising.

[Phil V 72]

Blue5, on 27 July 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

David has, as you put it, been well capitalised throughout and look where that has taken us. Perhaps you need to give some consideration what the 'long game' might be, quantify it and then tell the rest of us.

Well, in my limited experience of people who are well capitalised they have a very different attitude to debt and investments than the average person. They might 'lose' millions of virtual quid on an investment for years (eg, on shares) but are happy to sit on it, let it recover. They don't see it as a loss, it's still worth the same to them, it will just take longer to realise.

I don't know what DA's plan is, he says it's to get the club to recover, get it into League 1 and then sell it - that would be a win/win for supporters and him I suppose.

The point of being well capitalised is that you're not under pressure to service the debt. I know under his ownership we've had a terrible 3 years but the alternative was a group who are in hock to investors (who KNOWS how they raised the initial £3m) and would be constantly needing to raise funds to service that. I don't fancy that one bit, much as I am unhappy with the last few years.

[Siberian Spireite]

sophocles, on 27 July 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Fair and reasoned points, but what I still cannot understand is why, assuming DA does have a vested interest, he pulled the rug from under Cooky's feet and sat back watching the demolition job as that great squad was destroyed? I can only conclude that it was just pure spitefulnes, but then that raises the question of why is he now apparently trying to reverse the decline he himself caused? As you can tell, I'm just completely and utterly confused, so I'm just going to focus on what improvement MA can bring on the pitch.

I think, in contrast to everyone else in football, DA actually believed Saunders could manage a football club.
After that, and chucking his toys out of his pram , he trusted Wrong Kit, which was only going to take the club one way until DA had to take control and appoint a proper manager, himself.

[Goku]

metallilad, on 27 July 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

Wow. All this attention you keep showing me.
I like it......

Makes me feel......Special.

You can just admit you were wrong mate

[Phil V 72]

sophocles, on 27 July 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Fair and reasoned points, but what I still cannot understand is why, assuming DA does have a vested interest, he pulled the rug from under Cooky's feet and sat back watching the demolition job as that great squad was destroyed? I can only conclude that it was just pure spitefulnes, but then that raises the question of why is he now apparently trying to reverse the decline he himself caused? As you can tell, I'm just completely and utterly confused, so I'm just going to focus on what improvement MA can bring on the pitch.

Not to drag the whole thing back up, but I suspect DA feels that he was sold a 'pup' - the stadium wasn't costed properly and he had to put in more money than he wanted to. So, to rectify this the idea appears to have been "let's create a business model based on reaching the championship" rather than building a sustainable club and move forward slowly and incrementally. There followed a period over many years of spending based on this premise but it wasn't sustainable without getting into the Championship. DA is a proud man and doesn't admit where mistakes have been made, but in my view this is the root of the problem.

I think he/they made a mistake from the outset, possibly as far back as 2011. The problems were really there all along, before Cookie came on the scene. CFC really needed championship football, full houses, increased revenue and a production line of players who could be developed, sold for a profit and then we buy and develop the next one to service the impossible dream.

Only my view, of course.

This post has been edited by Phil V 72: 27 July 2018 - 11:22 AM

[metallilad]

Goku, on 27 July 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

You can just admit you were wrong mate

Would it make you horny?

Ok. I admit it. I was mistaken.

[Blue5]

Phil V 72, on 27 July 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

Not to drag the whole thing back up, but I suspect DA feels that he was sold a 'pup' - the stadium wasn't costed properly and he had to put in more money than he wanted to. So, to rectify this the idea appears to have been "let's create a business model based on reaching the championship" rather than building a sustainable club and move forward slowly and incrementally. There followed a period over many years of spending based on this premise but it wasn't sustainable without getting into the Championship. DA is a proud man and doesn't admit where mistakes have been made, but in my view this is the root of the problem.

I think he/they made a mistake from the outset, possibly as far back as 2011. The problems were really there all along, before Cookie came on the scene. CFC really needed championship football, full houses, increased revenue and a production line of players who could be developed, sold for a profit and then we buy and develop the next one to service the impossible dream.

Only my view, of course.

This rubbish about the initial costings for the stadium does not wash with me. It is like the guy in the street paying an extra £20,000 for his house then he goes on to upset his employer which results in him receiving no salary increase and no annual bonus and then to add insult to injury spends money that he cannot afford on luxury items, booze, gambling, etc and then wonders why he is having difficulty servicing his mortgage.

The problem is clearly highlighted in the accounts, it is the wages being paid. Anything else is spin.

[Phil V 72]

Blue5, on 27 July 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

This rubbish about the initial costings for the stadium does not wash with me. It is like the guy in the street paying an extra £20,000 for his house then he goes on to upset his employer which results in him receiving no salary increase and no annual bonus and then to add insult to injury spends money that he cannot afford on luxury items, booze, gambling, etc and then wonders why he is having difficulty servicing his mortgage.

The problem is clearly highlighted in the accounts, it is the wages being paid. Anything else is spin.

When dealing with people like DA how they 'feel' about things are as important as any factual points, it's the key to understanding how they work in my view.

[Westbars Spireite]

twistedspire, on 27 July 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

Mr "I call a spade a shovel"

7 July
“I had a conversation with Dave and he said forget it until the end of the season, we’ll see where we are. “We’ll stop actively pursuing anything.”

26 July
"Following five months of negotiations over the sale of the football club......We firmly believe that the offer was genuine and entered into NDAs and due dilligence over a six-week period"

If anyone at the club even told half a truth i think the earth would start turning the opposite way round.

Wasn't it July 7th 2017?

[sophocles]

Phil V 72, on 27 July 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

Not to drag the whole thing back up, but I suspect DA feels that he was sold a 'pup' - the stadium wasn't costed properly and he had to put in more money than he wanted to. So, to rectify this the idea appears to have been "let's create a business model based on reaching the championship" rather than building a sustainable club and move forward slowly and incrementally. There followed a period over many years of spending based on this premise but it wasn't sustainable without getting into the Championship. DA is a proud man and doesn't admit where mistakes have been made, but in my view this is the root of the problem.

I think he/they made a mistake from the outset, possibly as far back as 2011. The problems were really there all along, before Cookie came on the scene. CFC really needed championship football, full houses, increased revenue and a production line of players who could be developed, sold for a profit and then we buy and develop the next one to service the impossible dream.

Only my view, of course.

Yes I can see that. As a fan, like many others, it seemed that we were so close to achieving the 'impossible dream' that it seemed as if one last push would have done the trick. It was frustrating, but it's easy to say 'throw some more money in' when it's somebody else who's paying out.

[moondog]

Blue5, on 26 July 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

Moondog & Ashley - I refer you to -

https://www.derbyshi...r-now-1-8638193


Comments greatly appreciated.

Are you aware this article is from last year ?

[Close but no prawn sarnies]

[quote name='Phil V 72' timestamp='1532690321' post='1405494']
Not to drag the whole thing back up, but I suspect DA feels that he was sold a 'pup' - the stadium wasn't costed properly and he had to put in more money than he wanted to. So, to rectify this the idea appears to have been "let's create a business model based on reaching the championship" rather than building a sustainable club and move forward slowly and incrementally. There followed a period over many years of spending based on this premise but it wasn't sustainable without getting into the Championship. DA is a proud man and doesn't admit where mistakes have been made, but in my view this is the root of the problem.

I think he/they made a mistake from the outset, possibly as far back as 2011. The problems were really there all along, before Cookie came on the scene. CFC really needed championship football, full houses, increased revenue and a production line of players who could be developed, sold for a profit and then we buy and develop the next one to service the impossible dream.

Only my view, of course.

Spot on..

Only in my view as well

[Blue5]

moondog, on 27 July 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Are you aware this article is from last year ?

I am now!