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Gideon Bible Protest

#61 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 05:16 PM

View PostAlbert Holmes Slides In, on 21 August 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

I support a football team. I do not care about the political or religious beliefs, sexual practices, sexuality, gender, ethnicity or sexual preferences of those in and around the team, those who love and/or support it, or those who run it and are employed by it. If I could choose for everyone I'd model the club on the German club St Pauli, but that is not my choice alone.

I am an atheist. I understand there will be those of religious beliefs within the club too. That is their freedom and right. I do not, however, believe our club, supported by Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists and many other religions for all I know should be distributing Gideon Bibles to all its staff and publicising its Christianity on its website.

Gideon International distributes bibles free around the world. This is not generosity, it is what it does. Gideon is a class based organisation whose membership is limited to current or retired business or professional MEN aged 21 or older who are members in good standing of an evangelical or Protestant church. Wives of Gideons may also join the Gideons International Auxiliary.

So how does Chesterfield Football club square its support of a class-based, Christian organisation that discriminates against women with the core values it was espousing on its website only months ago?

I'm feeling dodgy about continuing my support for the club, which has been lifelong.




Some clubs do have long established connections with a church or a faith, like Southampton (Anglican) Everton (Methodists) and Mansfield ( Snake-handlers) which might give this sort of deal some grounding. As far as I know though, Town don't. Individual players can do what they like but I don't reckon Town should be promoting religion or associating itself with those that do.

Its not like a sponsorship deal, I know, but there's an implicit endorsement of a product here, and its not a very wholesome one. AHSI's concerns about their reactionary attitudes are fair enough; unsurprisingly the Secular Society is trying to keep them out of schools, and a lot of church groups, even, are against their methods.

The Gideons, like all missionaries, are essentially ideologues and like many an ideologue before them they're looking to get their 10 pennorth into football grounds. Thing is, they work with the zeal of a door to door salesman; it's all about shifting units.
Wether anyone is ever going to read them is another matter, but if 34 clubs have already got a box of bibles in the cupboard under the stairs, someone's clearly up for Missionary Of The Month.

Interesting though. Life's rich tapestry and that.

This post has been edited by bifocart: 22 August 2017 - 05:17 PM

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#62 User is offline   Cosmo Kramer 

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:31 PM

I don't want to take this off-topic because it's nice to see people having a mostly reasonable debate. But, I can't be the only one who keeps nipping on the board for a quick look and wondering who this Gideon Bible bloke is and if he'll do a job at left back.
These pretzels are making me thirsty!
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#63 User is offline   Bonnyman 

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:40 PM

He can do a job but he is right footed.As for our board they are biblical as they appear to have turned wine into water.
ITS NOT THE WINNING,ITS THE TAKING APART
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#64 User is offline   calvin plummers socks 

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 11:36 PM

There used to be a group of Town fans who wore a badge a few years back - looked like a 'P' with a tilted cross ( x ) down it.
Was that some sort of religious symbol? Used to see it on a few blokes and never knew what it was?
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#65 User is offline   mr. smith 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:23 AM

View Postcalvin plummers socks, on 22 August 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

There used to be a group of Town fans who wore a badge a few years back - looked like a 'P' with a tilted cross ( x ) down it.
Was that some sort of religious symbol? Used to see it on a few blokes and never knew what it was?


no significance at all. it was just the design one of them had for a badge.
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#66 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

View PostCosmo Kramer, on 22 August 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

I don't want to take this off-topic because it's nice to see people having a mostly reasonable debate. But, I can't be the only one who keeps nipping on the board for a quick look and wondering who this Gideon Bible bloke is and if he'll do a job at left back.


He's good on crosses.
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#67 User is online   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:37 AM

View Postmr. smith, on 23 August 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

no significance at all. it was just the design one of them had for a badge.

I would guess that we are the only EFL club that has a CoE church steeple as part of its badge.
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#68 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:39 AM

View Postcalvin plummers socks, on 22 August 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

There used to be a group of Town fans who wore a badge a few years back - looked like a 'P' with a tilted cross ( x ) down it.
Was that some sort of religious symbol? Used to see it on a few blokes and never knew what it was?


I'm all curious now. Anybody got a picture?
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#69 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:44 AM

View Post60s 70s Spireite, on 23 August 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

I would guess that we are the only EFL club that has a CoE church steeple as part of its badge.


Youre right, hadnt thought of that. Im guessing it's there because its a local landmark rather than as a reference to any historical roots Town might have in the church.
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#70 User is offline   Heart of a Niven 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:51 AM

Come on secular Town! Come on secular Town!

Yes, I can see that catching on.
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#71 User is offline   AllTownArentWe 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:25 AM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 22 August 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

How many of the ten commandments have we broken?

Thy shall not play 4-4-2.
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#72 User is offline   Zorro 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:47 AM

View PostAlbert Holmes Slides In, on 21 August 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

There has been a lot of intelligent comment on this. And to qualify as intelligent it doesn't have to be on my side!

I just wish such intelligence and thought were evident in the running of the club. I don't want to be part of a Christian Club. I don't want to be part of an Atheist club or a Zoroastrian club. I want to be part of a football club. I am happy to let individuals believe or speak aloud what I believe to be nonsense or even dangerous. I'm happy to embrace difference. I want us to have black players and gay players, if we have a Kazakh left winger, an Iranian midfielder and a Colombian central defender I'll love it. If they cross themselves when taking a penalty or raise their eyes to Allah every time there's a corner what's that to me. If they can play football I'll love them. If they could play like Phil Bonnyman or Albert Holmes I'd be getting close to worship.

BUT religion and proselytisation can't have a place in the running of our club can they? We're not Derby Road Methodist Bucketbangers after all (even if that is the standard of football to which we're currently headed).


Phew..... I thought you had brought me and my followers into the debate until I googled it ;) I prefer Erich Von Daniken :)

Z
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#73 User is offline   martatcross 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:04 AM

When we had sky doing the live link they did it from the Crooked Spire. To me it's an iconic landmark. On the subject of club badges I think Falkirk have a church on their club badge (not EFL I know just an observation) on the original subject I am an atheist but respect the rights of others to have what ever faith they wish.
Can't salute yer can't find a flag if that don't suit yer that's a drag
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#74 User is online   RN Blue 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:07 AM

EVD has been proved a charlatan hasn't he?
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#75 User is offline   Close but no prawn sarnies 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:24 AM

I think those really offended by this should start #NOTABIBLEMORE

Cease attending matches now !! Bet DA & AC are creaming cash off those free bibles

Alternatively we could open a fiction library in the hub and put the bibles in there along with the Koran, Harry Potter, Game of Throwns, CFC audited accounts etc

What a brilliant thread

#NOTABIBLEMORE
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#76 User is offline   trickytrevsfanclub 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 01:30 PM

View PostRN Blue, on 23 August 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

EVD has been proved a charlatan hasn't he?

You're thinking of Tim Burgess.
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#77 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 01:38 PM

View PostHeart of a Niven, on 23 August 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Come on secular Town! Come on secular Town!

Yes, I can see that catching on.


better than "Onward Christian Spirites"
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#78 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 01:40 PM

View PostZorro, on 23 August 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Phew..... I thought you had brought me and my followers into the debate until I googled it ;) I prefer Erich Von Daniken :)

Z



i used to like his stuff..ancient rocket launchers in the rainforests and that..the Dan Brown of his day.

This post has been edited by bifocart: 23 August 2017 - 01:54 PM

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#79 User is offline   bifocart 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

View PostAlbert Holmes Slides In, on 21 August 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

There has been a lot of intelligent comment on this. And to qualify as intelligent it doesn't have to be on my side!

I just wish such intelligence and thought were evident in the running of the club. I don't want to be part of a Christian Club. I don't want to be part of an Atheist club or a Zoroastrian club. I want to be part of a football club. I am happy to let individuals believe or speak aloud what I believe to be nonsense or even dangerous. I'm happy to embrace difference. I want us to have black players and gay players, if we have a Kazakh left winger, an Iranian midfielder and a Colombian central defender I'll love it. If they cross themselves when taking a penalty or raise their eyes to Allah every time there's a corner what's that to me. If they can play football I'll love them. If they could play like Phil Bonnyman or Albert Holmes I'd be getting close to worship.

BUT religion and proselytisation can't have a place in the running of our club can they? We're not Derby Road Methodist Bucketbangers after all (even if that is the standard of football to which we're currently headed).


Spot on. Yeah it's been good this thread. I do like all the usual stuff about which goalie is better than which, but this has been interesting, it's good to think about the stuff that goes on quietly on the fringes of the club.
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#80 User is offline   calvin plummers socks 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

View Postmr. smith, on 23 August 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

no significance at all. it was just the design one of them had for a badge.


Ah ok- just wondered- used to see it at away games years ago and never knew what it was
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