[DIFH]

MDCCCLXVI, on 12 August 2017 - 09:17 PM, said:

Let's get summat out the way up front; today's ref was a joke. A parody. A Python-esque satire of every comically biased 'homer' that ever reached our screens. It became clear as early as the opening exchanges that all a Notts player had to do was throw himself to the floor to get a decision. Meanwhile far more obvious fouls on Town players were simply waved away.

I wasn't watching the sending off - from the corner of my eye it seemed nothing more than a defender blocking an attacker as seen dozens of times in every game - but this was an official that'd awarded a throw-in then randomly decided to re-start the game with an in-field drop-ball after (surprise-surprise) a supposed injury to a home player.

It's sickening to think he might walk away from such brazen incompetence without any thought given to the many Town fans suffering as a result.

However.

Given this was my first glimpse of CFC 2017/18 - thanks to Carson and Co's ongoing behaviour - the opening conversations went pretty much like this:

Me: 'Who's that on the left of our back three?'

Mates: 'Wiseman.'

Me: 'So why're we playing a right footer in that position?'

Mates: >shrugged shoulders and rolled eyes<

Me: 'Isn't one of our two holding midfielders that lad from Sheffyoo? But I thought he was a creative player?'

Mates: >shrugged shoulders and rolled eyes<

Me: 'Why is Dennis in midfield?'

Mates: >shrugged shoulders and rolled eyes<

Me: 'So we've square pegs in round holes after just two games? Despite all the fuss about starting back earlier than other sides?'

Mates: >bewildered shaking of heads<

Me: 'Why not put a Dion Donahue who's done well at left back there, play the right-sided defender Wiseman in that role and at least build from a solid base? Why not play the bloke signed from Northampton (dunno his name) as a defensive midfielder alongside Weir and allow the Blunts loanee more licence?'

Mates: >resigned looks<

What followed can best be described as 'hopeful' play by the two teams. Neither could seem to string together any meaningful passages, neither mustered any real cohesion and both went long-ish to their respective 'big lads' up-front. Sam Hird denied County twice, first with a last-ditch tackle on Ameobi then a goal-line block, whilst Reid shot well wide before Ugwu (?) fired straight at their 'keeper in front of goal.

It also became abundantly obvious that the diminutive Anyon refuses to stray beyond his six yard box and punches rather than catches, whilst the Swindon releasee Barry can't go past a man. Infact the whole Chesterfield line-up lacked any pace whatsoever.

We all know what happened before an otherwise forgettable first half came to a close.

Boos rang around Meadow Lane.

Town actually impressed for the next ten or so minutes, definitely dictating and only a double block preventing 'Double-D' from opening the scoring. Yet then Anyon confirmed his lack of presence by knuckling a ball he really should've caught before allowing what appeared an innocuous header to loop over him despite being on his own line.

I think the abbreviation is 'FFS'.

It all got a bit 'last season' then, us struggling to even do the basics. But whether Notts sat back, are genuinely pants or we finally showed some b*ll*cks it was Town that rallied over the last twenty-ish minutes. Another new face to me, Delial Brewster, demonstrated laudable intent by adopting a 'shoot on sight' policy and the ten pushing for an equaliser deserve credit for effort even if it lacked quality.

As is so often the case that merely opened a gap, though, a 'take-one-for-the-team' trip by Hird giving away a twenty yard free kick which led to a Scotland v England, Leigh Griffiths style strike ending the game. And as then folk can decide for themselves if it was a remarkable shot or just poor goalkeeping.

I guess there'll be those who'll argue Notts could, just maybe, have more to worry about than us. It's true there were times when they were second best to ten men and who knows what might've happened with a different ref.

That can't detract from some very inconvenient truths on our part, mind.

The Manager still insists on pursuing his favoured formation regardless of sense or circumstance. Players he inherited - Evatt, Hird and Dennis - impressed more than his signings. He's fielding players out of position after only two competitive fixtures. We lack any credible creativity and pace. Indeed an O'Shea, maybe even a Gardner might've stood out much more than any of our summer arrivals.

And we're bottom of the entire football league.

Congratulations Gary Caldwell, Guy Branston, Ashley Carson and assorted cronies.

Next week is 'Ernie day'. I want to attend to register my support for a true Town legend, someone that epitomises everything good, wholesome and respectable about Chesterfield FC.

Unfortunately people who aren't fit to breath his name are forcing me to think long and hard about doing so.

You will remember this ref as being the guy that sent Bolly off for diving at Dale. He also gave a red card at the Proact which was subsequently recinded.

Are we appealing this card or does the 500 quid cost make this out of the question.

[Spireite-Karl]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 14 August 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

They concede from set pieces, high crosses and the rest because we have been constantly under the gun. Because our midfield wins nowt in front of them and because our flanks are exposed and because they're caught in no mans land because we're always chasing the game.

It's a team game. The diagnosis ought to reflect that.

We used to concede from set pieces and high crosses under Cookie, spot any coincidences? Don't get me wrong, both are a massive problem, but what was being said before is that this has been know for years and it's still not been addressed by any of the last few managers and surprise, surprise we still have the same problems.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 13 August 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

The only thing the Evatt/Hird partnership is "proven" to do is concede goals. How much proof do you need before it sinks in? Apart from last season's farce in conceding the most goals in L1, we were taken apart by every L2 outfit we played. They concede on a regular basis from set pieces, high crosses and teams simply running past them because they're too slow. Nothing has changed from last season, nor will it. The introduction of Wiseman at RB is irrelevant, since all the problems are central and left.
Caldwell saw it last season and for some reason has chosen to ignore it. Unless he can magic some more money from somewhere it could well be what finishes his career in football.

Well Club Captain Ian Evatt played in the Premier League whilst the Sam Hird possessing a plethora of POTY awards has Championship experience. What's more Caldwell is the fourth successive manager - including the Dean Saunders you insisted was only one signing from being 'virtually guaranteed promotion' - to conclude they're his preferred partnership. Oh, and let's not forget their huge contribution towards our L2 title and L1 play offs, too.

Seems pretty 'proven' to me.

Then Hird featured against neither Accrington or Wycombe, two of the three L2 opponents to whom you refer. Nor were he and Evatt fielded in every game last season. And of course any fair minded football fan realises conceding goals goes way beyond the performance of just two players - infact you repeatedly claimed the midfield was the key to our form!

Why you go out of your way to repeatedly sneer at honest Town servants whilst refusing to say a single word against those decimating the Club really is beyond me.

PS: are you still advocating a '6-3-2' formation? Or has the fact there're only eleven players in a team 'sunk in' yet...

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 14 August 2017 - 03:30 PM

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

h again, on 13 August 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

The only thing the Evatt/Hird partnership is "proven" to do is concede goals. How much proof do you need before it sinks in? Apart from last season's farce in conceding the most goals in L1, we were taken apart by every L2 outfit we played. They concede on a regular basis from set pieces, high crosses and teams simply running past them because they're too slow. Nothing has changed from last season, nor will it. The introduction of Wiseman at RB is irrelevant, since all the problems are central and left.
Caldwell saw it last season and for some reason has chosen to ignore it. Unless he can magic some more money from somewhere it could well be what finishes his career in football.

How as Caldwell ignored the left issue? He got rid of the injury plagued full back and brought another one in, who most who saw him, thought he looked useful, with presumably DD to play in front of him. The plan may now have failed with the injury and lack of money to bring in another player (and one would then be surplus and on contract when BW gets fit) but I can't see how you can say he's ignored it?

[lindave]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 14 August 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

How as Caldwell ignored the left issue? He got rid of the injury plagued full back and brought another one in, who most who saw him, thought he looked useful, with presumably DD to play in front of him. The plan may now have failed with the injury and lack of money to bring in another player (and one would then be surplus and on contract when BW gets fit) but I can't see how you can say he's ignored it?

The loss of B-Williams (and Joe Rowley), was plain bad luck, with them 2 in the side I really thought we were going to have the right blend to make a big push for promotion. I still think we need a big/ fast cb to partner Evo or Hird, we get bullied too easily off the ball and slow to react at set pieces. In Weir, Reed we have 2 class players to bulk up the midfield if BW / Joe are fit. I still think the front 4 pushing for places are good enough to bring us the goals to win matches, OG.Gozie. Brew, Dennis (and German if he gets his head screwed on right). The disappointments to me have been Annyon, Barry, Sinnott and even McCourt, they must surely have a lot more to give to the Club. McGinn / Connor and Mitchell must be aching for a starting shirt and prove their worth. I'm worried sick that GC may not be the man for the job and he too has to prove his worth or we could be in for a rough ride. We've had 2 good vocal away followings lets hope we can continue that at home, the first win will be the hardest but if we can beat the Vale then self belief should come back into the plAyers and fans alike. Good luck Spireites.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Spireite-Karl, on 14 August 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

We used to concede from set pieces and high crosses under Cookie, spot any coincidences? Don't get me wrong, both are a massive problem, but what was being said before is that this has been know for years and it's still not been addressed by any of the last few managers and surprise, surprise we still have the same problems.

The only real 'coincidence' I see is that all teams concede to crosses and set pieces. Everyone concedes to crosses and set pieces, they're dangerous and put defenders on the back foot.

The other is that Hird and Evo saw us win L2, get to Wembley, and reach the L1 play offs. But Cook had a balanced side. Ours hasn't been, and isn't. JBW injury is massive.

[Spireite-Karl]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 14 August 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

The only real 'coincidence' I see is that all teams concede to crosses and set pieces. Everyone concedes to crosses and set pieces, they're dangerous and put defenders on the back foot.

The other is that Hird and Evo saw us win L2, get to Wembley, and reach the L1 play offs. But Cook had a balanced side. Ours hasn't been, and isn't. JBW injury is massive.

Hehe, good counter argument my friend.

What I will say is that we never score from corners and most teams don't these days to be honest, but we always seem to concede our fair share from them.. Something majorly wrong there imo. And even with Morsy in the side we did regularly get exposed at the back (and how many times did Tommy save us??), but nowhere near as much because as you rightly say we had better balance, though we had much, much better players who could keep hold of the ball as well, this helped enormously.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Spireite-Karl, on 14 August 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hehe, good counter argument my friend.

What I will say is that we never score from corners and most teams don't these days to be honest, but we always seem to concede our fair share from them.. Something majorly wrong there imo. And even with Morsy in the side we did regularly get exposed at the back (and how many times did Tommy save us??), but nowhere near as much because as you rightly say we had better balance, though we had much, much better players who could keep hold of the ball as well, this helped enormously.

I certainly agree that we're rubbish at our set pieces. We don't capitalise on them anywhere near enough. Especially fecking short corners. WHY!?

Problem imo with crosses is more down to GK than CB's imo. Tommy has a lot of qualities. Commanding his box and taking crosses wasn't one of them. Anyon has the same problem, so we'll see plenty more of that I'm afraid.

[clarevoyant.]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on 14 August 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

You will remember this ref as being the guy that sent Bolly off for diving at Dale. He also gave a red card at the Proact which was subsequently recinded.

Are we appealing this card or does the 500 quid cost make this out of the question.

As much as it grieves me I have to exonerate haines of the Bolly fiasco that honour falls to a haines clone in both looks and (in)ability Carl Boyeson.
Haines history with us at Rochdale was when Marc Richards was virtually decapitated 8 yards from an open in the last minute with haines waving play on and the following season awarding dale penalties everytime a bird shat on the pitch.

[Spireite-Karl]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 14 August 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

I certainly agree that we're rubbish at our set pieces. We don't capitalise on them anywhere near enough. Especially fecking short corners. WHY!?

Problem imo with crosses is more down to GK than CB's imo. Tommy has a lot of qualities. Commanding his box and taking crosses wasn't one of them. Anyon has the same problem, so we'll see plenty more of that I'm afraid.

Yes I agree with you that a commanding keeper would help. I don't see other teams with this weakness and I've been watching us with the same problem for seasons now, it can't be that hard to sort out, surely??

[Walton Spireite]

Spireite-Karl, on 14 August 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Yes I agree with you that a commanding keeper would help. I don't see other teams with this weakness and I've been watching us with the same problem for seasons now, it can't be that hard to sort out, surely??

That is the frustration. We had a **** keeper for the majority of last season and we all know the end result. We just don't blimey learn.

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 14 August 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Well Club Captain Ian Evatt played in the Premier League whilst the Sam Hird possessing a plethora of POTY awards has Championship experience. What's more Caldwell is the fourth successive manager - including the Dean Saunders you insisted was only one signing from being 'virtually guaranteed promotion' - to conclude they're his preferred partnership. Oh, and let's not forget their huge contribution towards our L2 title and L1 play offs, too.

Seems pretty 'proven' to me.

Then Hird featured against neither Accrington or Wycombe, two of the three L2 opponents to whom you refer. Nor were he and Evatt fielded in every game last season. And of course any fair minded football fan realises conceding goals goes way beyond the performance of just two players - infact you repeatedly claimed the midfield was the key to our form!

Why you go out of your way to repeatedly sneer at honest Town servants whilst refusing to say a single word against those decimating the Club really is beyond me.

PS: are you still advocating a '6-3-2' formation? Or has the fact there're only eleven players in a team 'sunk in' yet...

Perhaps we'd better come a bit more up to date and recognise their huge contribution to our near relegation in 2015/6, relegation last season, and concession of vast numbers of soft goals as noted by virtually every contributor on here.
Goals conceded are not down to just the central defenders, but there comes a time when common sense dictates that something is seriously wrong in a central defence that leaks the quantity and kind of goals we concede.
Try to do a little better. You know as well as I do that the central defence is not good enough but for some reason you seem to believe that past records are relevant to defending now. Grimsby and Notts County weren't very impressed by them.

[Tha Knows...]

The problems we have are obviously not restricted to the CB pairing but, on this issue specifically, I do honestly think Evo needs to be back up and not a starter, depending on GC making a signing. I know Evo is a bit of a cult hero among a section of fans, especially on the kop, but thats my opinion.

[h again]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 14 August 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

How as Caldwell ignored the left issue? He got rid of the injury plagued full back and brought another one in, who most who saw him, thought he looked useful, with presumably DD to play in front of him. The plan may now have failed with the injury and lack of money to bring in another player (and one would then be surplus and on contract when BW gets fit) but I can't see how you can say he's ignored it?

I was talking about the central defence in particular and its lack of a left footed player. However, I wouldn't fault GC for bringing in B-W for the left side of a back three, but as it turns out he's the only bloke who can play in that position in the only formation GC seems happy with. So when he got injured, that was the whole system thrown into confusion.
Some decent cover was and is needed. Not easy in our situation.

[Tha Knows...]

Webster, on 13 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ok who would take them?<br>&nbsp;Hirds lack of pace when paired with someone slower than him eg Luton away last season shows our summer recruitment policy was flawed well done Caldwell/ Branno btw on that not for not at least signing a cb who attacks the ball.

Evo missed much of last season with injury and we at least had Anderson who for his faults airley wasnt really one of them was quicker than Evo

The pairing of an ageing Evo and Hird without 2 mobile defensive midfielders infront of them is a real issue You could then also add a dodgy keeper and lack of creativity or pace up top

Signing Semedo would have gone a long way to solving the midfield problem but it was never likely to happen

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 14 August 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Perhaps we'd better come a bit more up to date and recognise their huge contribution to our near relegation in 2015/6, relegation last season, and concession of vast numbers of soft goals as noted by virtually every contributor on here.
Goals conceded are not down to just the central defenders, but there comes a time when common sense dictates that something is seriously wrong in a central defence that leaks the quantity and kind of goals we concede.
Try to do a little better. You know as well as I do that the central defence is not good enough but for some reason you seem to believe that past records are relevant to defending now. Grimsby and Notts County weren't very impressed by them.

So you accept Hird and Evatt are proven professionals but instead of admitting it try to air-brush their successes from history. A typically snide and cynical attitude.

You also claimed we'd the worst defensive record in L1 last season. Wrong again - Gillingham conceded more. Did you even check? Or were you just throwing around a lie hoping no-one would notice.

Meanwhile you've said absolutely nothing about our strikeforce which those same stats prove was the third worst. Infact you even dubbed Kristian Dennis 'a young Robbie Fowler'. Why the shameless hypocrisy?

Then you sneer that Evatt and Hird made a 'huge contribution' to our demise and are responsible for 'vast numbers of soft goals'. So perhaps you can tell everyone how many times they've played together over the last two seasons? Or give us a rough figure of how many soft goals occurred during those games? Do you have that information? Or are these yet more unjustified smears.

How about pointing out, say, six posts from 'virtually every contributor on here' agreeing with your slurs, too.

What has been confirmed, though, is the financial meltdown and talent exits you first tried to deny then sought to excuse. To the point of insulting 'Bob's Board' members narrating them. Don't you think those issues might, just maybe, have played a part in what even Dave Allen himself described as the Club's 'car crash'?

I don't think anyone's suggesting there aren't better defenders than Sam Hird and Ian Evatt. But it speaks volumes that you come out of hiding to pursue this morally and factually bankrupt vendetta against two honest Town servants whilst cowering in silence when it comes to the real partners in crime.

PS: did you go to Notts? It's just that for someone who sarcastically gushed 'Mansfield and Notts? Lovin' it!' you said nowt about the game...

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 15 August 2017 - 06:07 PM

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 15 August 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

So you accept Hird and Evatt are proven professionals but instead of admitting it try to air-brush their successes from history. A typically snide and cynical attitude.

You also claimed we'd the worst defensive record in L1 last season. Wrong again - Gillingham conceded more. Did you even check? Or were you just throwing around a lie hoping no-one would notice.

Meanwhile you've said absolutely nothing about our strikeforce which those same stats prove was the third worst. Infact you even dubbed Kristian Dennis 'a young Robbie Fowler'. Why the shameless hypocrisy?

Then you sneer that Evatt and Hird made a 'huge contribution' to our demise and are responsible for 'vast numbers of soft goals'. So perhaps you can tell everyone how many times they've played together over the last two seasons? Or give us a rough figure of how many soft goals occurred during those games? Do you have that information? Or are these yet more unjustified smears.

How about pointing out, say, six posts from 'virtually every contributor on here' agreeing with your slurs, too.

What has been confirmed, though, is the financial meltdown and talent exits you first tried to deny then sought to excuse. To the point of insulting 'Bob's Board' members narrating them. Don't you think those issues might, just maybe, have played a part in what even Dave Allen himself described as the Club's 'car crash'?

I don't think anyone's suggesting there aren't better defenders than Sam Hird and Ian Evatt. But it speaks volumes that you come out of hiding to pursue this morally and factually bankrupt vendetta against two honest Town servants whilst cowering in silence when it comes to the real partners in crime.

PS: did you go to Notts? It's just that for someone who sarcastically gushed 'Mansfield and Notts? Lovin' it!' you said nowt about the game...

What on earth is this ordure supposed to be about? Of course they're proven professionals, the point is that the only thing they've 'proven' for more than two seasons now is that they aren't adequate for a defence at L1 level, and it's looking increasingly likely the same applies in L2.
The rest isn't worth your time or mine.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 15 August 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

What on earth is this ordure supposed to be about? Of course they're proven professionals, the point is that the only thing they've 'proven' for more than two seasons now is that they aren't adequate for a defence at L1 level, and it's looking increasingly likely the same applies in L2.
The rest isn't worth your time or mine.

So that's a 'no', then.

You don't have a clue how many games Hird and Evatt played together just as you don't have a clue how many 'soft' goals you're accusing them of conceding.

Infact your whole agenda against two long-serving Town stalwarts is based upon nothing but lies and prejudice.

Disgusting, utterly disgusting.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 15 August 2017 - 07:22 PM

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

h again, on 15 August 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

What on earth is this ordure supposed to be about? Of course they're proven professionals, the point is that the only thing they've 'proven' for more than two seasons now is that they aren't adequate for a defence at L1 level, and it's looking increasingly likely the same applies in L2.
The rest isn't worth your time or mine.

No offence chief, but you spent the best part of two seasons saying Foodbanks was a good player but just wasn't getting the service.

I'll get your coat.

[Tha Knows...]

H has traditionally been a critic of Hird, not Evatt