[Nitrous Oxide]

Karl. You are right to make a stand, you feel strongly about it. I feel strongly about the people running the club I love, taking the P out of each and everyone of us too. Thing is for me is that I still can't draw myself away from spending time with my lad watching town. Damned if I do and Damned if I don't. I hope that we all get the outcome we want, a viable club with owners we deserve for once.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Spire-Power, on 21 July 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its pretty clear cut in my view. If you don't support the club in any way you have stopped being a supporter. Support involves financial input into the club and/or vocal backing for the team. Those who boycott home games but get behind the team away from home are supporters. Those who stop doing any of this are former supporters!

Okay 'SP', let's replace the term 'supporter' with 'someone with a strong emotional attachment and wants the best for their club'.

As for 'helping CFC', many thousands have been helping CFC by supporting it in the manner you advocate, only to see that help and support repaid by player sales, scandal, lies, insolvency and relegation.

Sorry if that's the 'same old, same old', my friend, but it's also the simple truth.

PS: would you say those currently running CFC are helping? Are they supporters? Infact have they a strong emotional attachment and want the best for the Club?

If the answer to any of these is 'no' then you can't really blame the many hundreds snubbing season tickets or declaring 'notapennymore'.

[Spireite-Karl]

Nitrous Oxide, on 21 July 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

Karl. You are right to make a stand, you feel strongly about it. I feel strongly about the people running the club I love, taking the P out of each and everyone of us too. Thing is for me is that I still can't draw myself away from spending time with my lad watching town. Damned if I do and Damned if I don't. I hope that we all get the outcome we want, a viable club with owners we deserve for once.

Thank you, and I hope the football on offer is considerable better this season for you and your lad.

[Spired]

I liked it more when things were black n white

Karl is a town fan but no longer a supporter

The "not another penny" campaign are the same

Long suffering fed up spireites

Then we have people like myself stuck in the middle who can see rationale behind the campaign but also can't quite stop going

Then supporters who are annoyed but buy st anyway

Supporters who don't but pay on the gate

Supporters/fans who will "pick and choose"

WHICHEVER YOU ARE IF YOU GIVE ENOUGH OF A CRAP TO BE ON HERE YOU CARE

up the blues.

[Tha Knows...]

Spireite-Karl, on 21 July 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

Without going over the same broken record that you keep accusing me about us still losing millions despite all the record incoming monies, and with the greatest respect I don't think it matters too much either way do you? (in answer to your question). Though in deepest of hopes more than anything I'm taking my stand against this lot in hoping my little bit will help in some way towards their eventual exit. Yes, I'm dreaming I know, though it does makes me feel better that I'm doing something proactive and as a person of high morals I really can't support what they've turned CFC into. Sorry, that's just me, though with saying that I'm not having a go at anyone that feels the same, but is still planning on going to games. Same goal, just different levels views on how to get there.

You should stand by what you believe in. But it isn't going to do anything in the way of "getting there" if by that you mean forcing DA and co out.

[Tha Knows...]

MDCCCLXVI, on 21 July 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

Okay 'SP', let's replace the term 'supporter' with 'someone with a strong emotional attachment and wants the best for their club'.

As for 'helping CFC', many thousands have been helping CFC by supporting it in the manner you advocate, only to see that help and support repaid by player sales, scandal, lies, insolvency and relegation.

Sorry if that's the 'same old, same old', my friend, but it's also the simple truth.

PS: would you say those currently running CFC are helping? Are they supporters? Infact have they a strong emotional attachment and want the best for the Club?

If the answer to any of these is 'no' then you can't really blame the many hundreds snubbing season tickets or declaring 'notapennymore'.

We agree the absentees are not supporters as they no longer give anything.
Like everyone else I would like to see the back of those running the club. At the very least I would hope they start to behave properly while they remain here.
I don't really follow the logic of your PS tbh.

[dtp]

AND, regarding the subject of this thread - CLUCAS, any more news?

[moondog]

dtp, on 22 July 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

AND, regarding the subject of this thread - CLUCAS, any more news?

Hull's manager says he's not leaving


http://www.hitc.com/...ucas-hopes-hav/

[Search & Destroy]

That means they want a few more £££s

[Goku]

Spire-Power, on 21 July 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its pretty clear cut in my view. If you don't support the club in any way you have stopped being a supporter. Support involves financial input into the club and/or vocal backing for the team. Those who boycott home games but get behind the team away from home are supporters. Those who stop doing any of this are former supporters!

This definition is very flawed. By this logic, fans who live in different countries or parts of this country can't be supporters, or people who can't afford to go. If one decides theyre not going because of how corrupt they believe some of the people who work at the club are, but they start going to games again when the corrupt people leave, have they gone from being a supporter to a former supporter to a supporter again?

I think your definition is simply meant to penalise those who have made a decision based on their own morals. You could just as easily make an argument about people like yourself who are still supporting the same regime who have caused all this harm to the club - by parting with funds you are giving this regime the message that what they do is okay and thus you are hurting the club, which is contrary to what you actually want to be doing.

This post has been edited by Goku: 22 July 2017 - 07:54 AM

[dim view]

moondog, on 22 July 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

Hull's manager says he's not leaving


http://www.hitc.com/...ucas-hopes-hav/

I suppose it's possible that Sam doesn't fit into the 'bludddy hell, he's on top premiership wages, he's got to go' category.

[Tha Knows...]

Goku, on 22 July 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

This definition is very flawed. By this logic, fans who live in different countries or parts of this country can't be supporters, or people who can't afford to go. If one decides theyre not going because of how corrupt they believe some of the people who work at the club are, but they start going to games again when the corrupt people leave, have they gone from being a supporter to a former supporter to a supporter again?

I think your definition is simply meant to penalise those who have made a decision based on their own morals. You could just as easily make an argument about people like yourself who are still supporting the same regime who have caused all this harm to the club - by parting with funds you are giving this regime the message that what they do is okay and thus you are hurting the club, which is contrary to what you actually want to be doing.

I'm not penalising anyone, that's your take. I think it's clear cut. If you give nothing you don't support and obviously someone can stop and resume support. I've done it myself in the past. Support is for the club and team regardless of ownership.

[BeastMode]

Spire-Power, on 22 July 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm not penalising anyone, that's your take. I think it's clear cut. If you give nothing you don't support and obviously someone can stop and resume support. I've done it myself in the past. Support is for the club and team regardless of ownership.

That's my take too pal, however much they try and deny it anybody who doesn't go ain't a supporter,

Call it morals or whatever you like to call it, yeah the current regime seem to be a bunch of C*nts, they keep cocking up, but without the fans there simply can't be a team.

Obviously the guys who will go solely away games still love the club.

Reference the different countries debate, they buy shirts, water bottles, key rings, pens etc, all this contributes to the financial upkeep of the clubs they support.

[Tha Knows...]

BeastMode, on 22 July 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

That's my take too pal, however much they try and deny it anybody who doesn't go ain't a supporter,

Call it morals or whatever you like to call it, yeah the current regime seem to be a bunch of C*nts, they keep cocking up, but without the fans there simply can't be a team.

Obviously the guys who will go solely away games still love the club.

Reference the different countries debate, they buy shirts, water bottles, key rings, pens etc, all this contributes to the financial upkeep of the clubs they support.

Maybe spireite player for those abroad is a way to support the club? There were times when I couldn't afford to support the club, when I had a young family. You don't necessarily lose interest in CFC, it's just that sometimes personal/financial circumstances can mean you can't support. Some are staying away because of the ownership. They have ceased being supporters on moral grounds at the present time.

[Goku]

Spire-Power, on 22 July 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm not penalising anyone, that's your take. I think it's clear cut. If you give nothing you don't support and obviously someone can stop and resume support. I've done it myself in the past. Support is for the club and team regardless of ownership.

Fair enough, if that's your personal definition of a supporter I can't fault you. Personally I think you can retain independent thought and choose not to support a corrupted regime whilst maintaining supporter status but there you go.

[BeastMode]

Goku, on 22 July 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Fair enough, if that's your personal definition of a supporter I can't fault you. Personally I think you can retain independent thought and choose not to support a corrupted regime whilst maintaining supporter status but there you go.

How would you define supporting a team if your not actually supporting the team?

Can you support your family with no financial input?

[Tha Knows...]

From what I've heard there are some people who buy STs knowing they'll never be able to attend a game, be that for infirmity or living abroad I don't know. They are, nevertheless, supporters of CFC!

[Goku]

BeastMode, on 22 July 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

How would you define supporting a team if your not actually supporting the team?

Can you support your family with no financial input?

No. The difference here is that my family haven't been involved in purposely corrupt activities and shown a complete inability to manage finances & budgets. Like I said, you could quite easily put forward the point that 'supporting' this regime with money is not good for the club in the long run. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, my association with CFC is 'meh' atm. I might go to some games, I might not, supporter, fan, non-supporter, not really bothered.

This post has been edited by Goku: 22 July 2017 - 10:32 AM

[Stockholm Spireite]

Goku, on 22 July 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

This definition is very flawed. By this logic, fans who live in different countries or parts of this country can't be supporters, or people who can't afford to go. If one decides theyre not going because of how corrupt they believe some of the people who work at the club are, but they start going to games again when the corrupt people leave, have they gone from being a supporter to a former supporter to a supporter again?

I think your definition is simply meant to penalise those who have made a decision based on their own morals. You could just as easily make an argument about people like yourself who are still supporting the same regime who have caused all this harm to the club - by parting with funds you are giving this regime the message that what they do is okay and thus you are hurting the club, which is contrary to what you actually want to be doing.

^^^^This^^^^

Spire-Power, on 21 July 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

Its pretty clear cut in my view. If you don't support the club in any way you have stopped being a supporter. Support involves financial input into the club and/or vocal backing for the team. Those who boycott home games but get behind the team away from home are supporters. Those who stop doing any of this are former supporters!

Vocal support for the team is all I am willing to offer now, so that makes me still a supporter, by your definition.

The reason I only offer this is because I've offered all sorts of help to the club, but never even had a courtesy response from anyone - and I mean even the work experience kids that might inhabit the office from time to time. You could also add CPS and Misnomer among others to the list of volunteers to the playing side who have been snubbed. There's also been a number of offers to help on the admin side of the club; same result. I'll give you a few examples:

1 - The consortium and bid for the club. Obvious and the most high-profile case.
2 - Scouting services; individual players and opposition teams
3 - Game analysis; feedback for players, planning for coaches, etc.
4 - Coaching; individual player improvement, team play, tactical set-ups, etc.
5 - Loan players. We're talking players who are available from October to March due to the seasonal breaks in Sweden. U.21 internationals who instead went to play on loan in the Netherlands. I offered my furnished house in Chesterfield (unoccupied at the time) for free - just pay the TV license and utility bills and you can take possession. My brother, who is a car enthusiast, had a vehicle in his garage he would let the players use - just pay the insurance and you can take possession.

All of these offers were in place from the time of Paul Cook's tenure. They were repeated when there were changes of manager. Never once has the club even acknowledged the contact I have made. There's only so many times I'll be ignored before I decide to stop offering. And here's the thing that stick in my craw - the offers were genuine and for the benefit of the club only, there was never an angle or anything in it for me. I never tried to usurp or undermine anyone's position, I wanted to add something and help the club achieve greater things. But what perplexes me most is why the offer of free help (from me and anybody else) was ignored and at the same time, those who ignore routinely took aim and shot themselves in foot, and in such public manner.

For that, I have no affinity for anyone who sits in the boardroom and enjoys a position of influence withing the club. I have the utmost respect for the "not a penny more" brigade. I am a kindred spirit and sole member of the "Inte en krona mer" party here in Stockholm. I will still look for the results through the season and hope we win, but I am definitely finished with all other aspects.

Feel free to say my attitude stinks, but I'm a great believer in attitude reflecting leadership.

[Misnomer]

Spire-Power, on 22 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Maybe spireite player for those abroad is a way to support the club? There were times when I couldn't afford to support the club, when I had a young family. You don't necessarily lose interest in CFC, it's just that sometimes personal/financial circumstances can mean you can't support. Some are staying away because of the ownership. They have ceased being supporters on moral grounds at the present time.

How fkin tedious is this pathetic non discussion! 'you aren't a supporter because you don't attend'; ffs let your balls drop!

I go when I can get; essentially, I might attend two games then miss five; does that mean my supporter status is defunct for those 5 games?

Jesus, move on; there are far bigger issues going on.