[CFC91]

Looks like Shrewsbury are to be the first English club to follow Celtic and install safe standing

https://www.shropshi...u-need-to-know/

https://www.shropshi...-at-its-ground/

Very interesting development.

This is DEFINITELY something i'd like to see our own supporters groups push for at the right time (i.e under new ownership) as it shows that a new stadium can be converted at a reasonable price.

I know it is something that divides fans including our own but if they can do it successfully, why can't we at some point? Having seen it at Celtic Park as much as I hate them, the atmosphere from that section looked and sounded great for a very run of the mill game


Watch this space then..good luck to them hope they get the funding, which they will and it may kick off this season.

This post has been edited by CFC91: 27 June 2017 - 07:41 AM

[JonB]

Not read the links but i thought the issue with standing and the Proact was that the stands havent been designed to take the loads of standing and the way that the concourses are designed under the stands makes it difficult and expensive to modify the stands to take it. Not sure however in what way the the safe standing seats\barriers are different to the normal standing barriers though.

[Westbars Spireite]

JonB, on 27 June 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not read the links but i thought the issue with standing and the Proact was that the stands havent been designed to take the loads of standing and the way that the concourses are designed under the stands makes it difficult and expensive to modify the stands to take it. Not sure however in what way the the safe standing seats\barriers are different to the normal standing barriers though.

No modification would be needed. Simply swap the normal seat for the 'rail' seat (is that what they're called?)

[CFC91]

JonB, on 27 June 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not read the links but i thought the issue with standing and the Proact was that the stands havent been designed to take the loads of standing and the way that the concourses are designed under the stands makes it difficult and expensive to modify the stands to take it. Not sure however in what way the the safe standing seats\barriers are different to the normal standing barriers though.

Considering Shrewsbury ground is a very similar new build to ours I can't see that being an issue. It's just a case of replacing the back 8 rows accross the stand being the goal and install rail seats. Interesting to see how it goes..

Jon - this is what it will be I assume - http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/38017172

This post has been edited by CFC91: 27 June 2017 - 07:57 AM

[JonB]

Westbars Spireite, on 27 June 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

No modification would be needed. Simply swap the normal seat for the 'rail' seat (is that what they're called?)

I can see that would be the case...just remember the issue with standing at the proact was that the stands weren't designed to take the loads of pushing against the barriers when standing but presumably as this safe standing is still just one person per "seat" even in standing mode then that load is reduced a lot and potentially not an issue or easier to modify for.

Reading the article about Shrewsbury it seems its costing them £75,000 to modify just 500 seats so should we look to do it would we just do a few rows in the Kop or do it all? Think there is 2100 seats in the Kop so kooking at over £300,000 to do the lot based on the cost of 500 seats at Shrewsbury. Whilst i like standing at games can we currently justify over £300,000 for this?

[Search & Destroy]

I think it's rubbish

No difference to just standing in a seated area like most do now.

I love a proper terrace, compare 1500 in the away end at Burton to Scunthorpe for example

[JonB]

Search and Destroy, on 27 June 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

I think it's rubbish

No difference to just standing in a seated area like most do now.

I love a proper terrace, compare 1500 in the away end at Burton to Scunthorpe for example

Other than being loads safer as the barriers are there to stop you falling on folk in front of you and is designed for standing unlike seats which are designed for sitting!

[Sammy Spireite]

Westbars Spireite, on 27 June 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

No modification would be needed. Simply swap the normal seat for the 'rail' seat (is that what they're called?)

I'm sure Pete Whitely said previously that the concrete would need significant strengthening to meet the required capability for the old style crush barriers (every few steps) to be bolted in to it. Not sure on the complexities of the rail seating, and how that affects it, but you'd imagine it needs some kind of strengthening.

Without the need for an increase in capacity, and the club counting every penny that's comes in (not necessarily all those that go out unfortunately!!) I really can't see the need to pursue the issue currently, as I can't see it would increase attendances, and fans would want to pay less than for seating tickets.

[JonB]

Sammy Spireite, on 27 June 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm sure Pete Whitely said previously that the concrete would need significant strengthening to meet the required capability for the old style crush barriers (every few steps) to be bolted in to it. Not sure on the complexities of the rail seating, and how that affects it, but you'd imagine it needs some kind of strengthening.

Without the need for an increase in capacity, and the club counting every penny that's comes in (not necessarily all those that go out unfortunately!!) I really can't see the need to pursue the issue currently, as I can't see it would increase attendances, and fans would want to pay less than for seating tickets.

There would be no increase in capacity with the changes just folk could stand one person per spot with tickets still sold for a designated seat\spot. Not 100% sure how it works but think its a case in places like Germany etc they have the seats locked in the up position for games where standing is allowed but then european games they will lock the seats down. Its not a case of choosing one or the other during every game.

[CFC91]

Search and Destroy, on 27 June 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

I think it's rubbish

No difference to just standing in a seated area like most do now.

I love a proper terrace, compare 1500 in the away end at Burton to Scunthorpe for example

It's a lot different. I've been to several grounds in Germany + Celtic Park in the safe standing, it's much safer.

Sammy Spireite, on 27 June 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm sure Pete Whitely said previously that the concrete would need significant strengthening to meet the required capability for the old style crush barriers (every few steps) to be bolted in to it. Not sure on the complexities of the rail seating, and how that affects it, but you'd imagine it needs some kind of strengthening.

Without the need for an increase in capacity, and the club counting every penny that's comes in (not necessarily all those that go out unfortunately!!) I really can't see the need to pursue the issue currently, as I can't see it would increase attendances, and fans would want to pay less than for seating tickets.

I thought this too but if Shrewsbury are doing it then it can't be the case. I assume their ground was build similarly to ours, i.e with the intention of not having safe standing so if they don't need to reinforce then neither do we. It isn't a capacity increase either its 1 for 1.

As for pricing, if it meant the chances of pushing this through and improving the atmosphere at games then I'd be happy for prices not to come down. It's only in Germany where the terraces are the cheap areas, I believe Celtic didn't change prices so as much as I think footy is expensive i'd rather pay more to stand than less, in a roundabout way. I'm looking forward to Accrington, Forest Green, Barnet etc this season purely for the novelty of standing on a terrace.

[Search & Destroy]

Didn't realise standing in a seated area was so inherently dangerous, have there been loads of injuries?

[JonB]

Search and Destroy, on 27 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Didn't realise standing in a seated area was so inherently dangerous, have there been loads of injuries?

Suspect there arent actual figures but wouldnt be surprised if there are plenty up and down the country. Doesnt take a genius to realise that pushing and shoving after a goal for example when there is only a small bit of seat back in front of you to stop you toppling forward is going to cause injuries. Hence the instruction that you should sit for the majority of the time for safety reasons.

[DIFH]

JonB, on 27 June 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not read the links but i thought the issue with standing and the Proact was that the stands havent been designed to take the loads of standing and the way that the concourses are designed under the stands makes it difficult and expensive to modify the stands to take it. Not sure however in what way the the safe standing seats\barriers are different to the normal standing barriers though.

Seeing as Shrewsbury is built on the same system as the Proactive it would seem feasable for us.

[JonB]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on 27 June 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

Seeing as Shrewsbury is built on the same system as the Proactive it would seem feasable for us.

Potentially so aside from the £75k per 500 seats cost. Noticed as well that Shrewsbury arent actually paying for it at their ground either...fans are trying to raise the money themselves to pay for it so may not actually happen.

[Dan Clark]

Am I correct in thinking that you wont be able to shuffle along and stand where you want with your pals? Which for me was the beauty about going to grounds like Saltergate, but you essentially have an allocated seat (not necessarily with your mates) where you can stand up, with a safety rail to your front to prevent you from falling forward?

If so don't really see the attraction.

[CFC91]

Dan Clark, on 27 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Am I correct in thinking that you wont be able to shuffle along and stand where you want with your pals? Which for me was the beauty about going to grounds like Saltergate, but you essentially have an allocated seat (not necessarily with your mates) where you can stand up, with a safety rail to your front to prevent you from falling forward?

If so don't really see the attraction.

Technically you are allocated a position but from the 5 or 6 experiences I have had it has been a lot more relaxed with people generally standing where they want..as I found out in Germany when it seemed like I was the only person in the ground at Wolfsburg trying to sit in my actual seat. It's definitely more relaxed than seating on the Kop is that's for sure.

[Cartman]

I'd love it if we did this, love it!

Sitting down at football is rubbish

[JonB]

Dan Clark, on 27 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Am I correct in thinking that you wont be able to shuffle along and stand where you want with your pals? Which for me was the beauty about going to grounds like Saltergate, but you essentially have an allocated seat (not necessarily with your mates) where you can stand up, with a safety rail to your front to prevent you from falling forward?

If so don't really see the attraction.

In theory yes thats the case. Its basically the same as buying a ticket for a specified seat but you stand up in that spot not sit. You'd also still need to buy tickets with mates if you want to be with them in the same spot not like the old days where you just wander in and go where you want.

Also its a case that all stand or all sit...there is not mixing and matching as the seats are locked in one position or the other. It'll come down to how they monitor the standing and whether they allow it to be relaxed as mentioned or make people stay fairly close to their allocated spot.

[CFC91]

JonB, on 27 June 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

In theory yes thats the case. Its basically the same as buying a ticket for a specified seat but you stand up in that spot not sit. You'd also still need to buy tickets with mates if you want to be with them in the same spot not like the old days where you just wander in and go where you want.

Also its a case that all stand or all sit...there is not mixing and matching as the seats are locked in one position or the other. It'll come down to how they monitor the standing and whether they allow it to be relaxed as mentioned or make people stay fairly close to their allocated spot.

I think the controls will be on the numbers entering the section rather than the specifics of where people are standing. If everyone standing is like minded in wanting to creat an atmosphere as they are away away games for example we may be onto a winner.

[JonB]

CFC91, on 27 June 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

I think the controls will be on the numbers entering the section rather than the specifics of where people are standing. If everyone standing is like minded in wanting to creat an atmosphere as they are away away games for example we may be onto a winner.

Presumably they wouldnt allow more people than there are spots on a row would they? Surely it can only be classed as safe should certain things be under control including making sure rows arent over subscribed.